Is it OK to watch and/or record girls peeing in public?

[Alfresco 11,639]

The moral and legal aspects of peeing in public are areas which could well lead to significantly differing views between people and have been mentioned on some other threads as an aside.    There are several people (including me) on this forum who enjoy seeing girls pee outside and also enjoy reading about accounts from people who have seen girls peeing or even watching videos published online.  There are some great videos out there taken at carnivals and events which feature lots of ladies having a pee in public areas with varying levels of seclusion including between cars, in the woods, behind portaloos or behind a dumpster for example.   The general feeling that I have is that it would be both legally wrong and morally dubious to spy on someone peeing where they have a reasonable expectation of privacy such as in a toilet cubicle or a private bathroom.  However, if a woman (or man for that matter) chooses to pee in a public place, then they no longer have a reasonable expectation of privacy - even if they have taken steps to find a secluded place and think they are unlikely to be spotted.     As I say, that is my view and others may disagree - and I am happy for everyone to have their own views on this and accept that many people may not think that it is appropriate to watch others peeing without permission even if it is in a public place.

The good news for those of us that enjoy public peeing sightings and videos is that recently some ladies raised a court case in Spain where they had been recorded on hidden cameras peeing in a street at a carnival and then they found that videos of them had been put on the internet on porn sites.   The good news for us is that the judge declared that there was no case to answer as the videos were taken in a public place and that no criminal offence had occurred.  I'm not sure who the ladies where trying to get action against, as it says that the identity of the person making the videos is not known - I'm guessing maybe they were campaigning to get their videos removed from the porn sites, but it looks like they were unsuccessful.  The article is on the BBC news page and in the Independent as well as other places and although it took place in Spain, it has been reported in the UK and Canada to name two places:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58747084 and some transcripts have appeared on YouTube as well.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/spain-porn-public-urination-a-maruxaina-b1930512.html

https://thecanadian.news/2021/09/28/judge-munoz-insists-it-is-not-a-crime-to-record-women-urinating-in-the-street-and-upload-the-video-to-a-porn-website/

Of course, that was a Spanish judge relating to Spanish Law and other countries may have different views, but as further support to the view that it is not a criminal offence to watch a woman pee in public - I have a personal experience in the UK where a policeman stopped me when I was out late at night and had been on the lookout for sightings.   He told me that I'd been seen on CCTV hanging around in various places and he wanted to know what I was doing as my behaviour looked a bit suspicious.  I honestly explained that I enjoyed watching ladies with drunk behaviour.  He said that I'd been seen watching a woman urinate in a side street and then checking out the puddle.   I said that as well as general drunk behaviour I enjoyed seeing women peeing outside.   He asked if it was a sexual thing (yes) and he asked if I was married (yes) and whether my wife knew what I was doing.  I said that she knew I enjoyed watching ladies pee outside but she probably didn't know I was doing it right now.    He asked if I had done anything that would have caused the woman distress and I said that I only enjoyed the view that was put in front of me.  I said that I doubted if she had even noticed me.   I was wondering, but didn't say, whether I was only spotted because the CCTV operators had also been enjoying spying on the girl peeing.   He said that there was nothing wrong with what I was doing and after a bit more discussion and a background check on me, he left me to carry on with my evening.

Not said in the court case above, but in actual fact, the act of peeing in public is more likely to be considered to be a crime or civil offence than the act of viewing the peeing.   That is because the person peeing is exposing themselves and also some places have by-laws against public peeing.   Therefore, even if a girl catches you viewing her, she is unlikely to take it further as she won't want to draw attention to what she was doing because (a) she would risk admitting an offence and (b) she would be bringing her act into public knowledge.

So what do others think?   Is it acceptable to seek out girls peeing in public?  Is it acceptable to watch them?  What about photographing and/or filming them?   Is the use of hidden cameras in these circumstances acceptable and would it be OK to publish the photos/videos or just to keep for own use?

 

[Kupar 13,341]

Interesting. I didn't know you'd had that encounter with the law @Alfresco.

I reckon there are three (possibly five) criteria in play here (I think we can discount here any external, absolute morality / sense of natural justice):

• The law
• The moral compass / feelings of the person peeing
• The moral compass of the person watching

The fourth is pragmatism / expediency: while the person being seen might not mind, you are comfortable with what you've done, and it's not illegal, the consequences of all your colleagues, friends and neighbours knowing what you just did might not be what you want, and that might influence whether something specific is right or not.

The UK law on public nudity is an interesting comparison here: it's not illegal to be naked in public, unless (1) you are intending to cause harassment, alarm or distress to someone - and the onus of proof is on the person alarmed and distress to prove that you *intended* to cause them alarm and distress - it's not enough for them to claim they were harassed, alarmed or distressed: this is a really important point). But that doesn't mean that it's a good idea to exercise your right by walking naked down the High Street on a Saturday morning.

The fifth is the extent of the interaction: perhaps a scale from watching without being observed yourself to openly recording the event and making it clear it was going to be on the Web in 20 minutes' time.

If I had more time (and ability) I could probably build a conceptual model that would help identify those situations where it was 'OK' or otherwise based on qualitative descriptions of the three criteria.

One issue is that you often can't know for sure what the peeing person's attitude is. What if, far from being, say a chill, devil-may-care exhibitionist, they were already really upset - distressed even - by having to find somewhere to go, because there just wasn't any other option, but you didn't know that when you saw them? Would you feel comfortable watching, recording or distributing the video, knowing their attitude? Probably not. I certainly wouldn't.

I think the most reasonable thing is, where it's possible, to be sensitive to the other person's demeanour, while being confident in your own legal position - which I think is exactly how you describe your own situation when encountering the police.

I'm rambling now, so I'll stop.

[Alfresco 11,639]

Some good points @Kupar.

2 hours ago, Kupar said:

Interesting. I didn't know you'd had that encounter with the law @Alfresco.

Yes - it was a few years ago now.  I have actually had three encounters - maybe I need to be more careful.  The first one I have previously mentioned here was when I was peeing in a corner or a street in London in the middle of the afternoon and when I finished I turned round to find a policeman stood there!   He told me that it wasn't an appropriate place but I pleaded that the public toilets were locked (they were) and I didn't know the are and was caught short.  He let me go on my way.   The second one was the one mentioned above and the third one was a very simple case of I was sat on a step watching people go by and the police stopped and asked whether I was waiting for someone - I just said no, I was just people watching and enjoying the lively nightlife.   They were fine with that.

2 hours ago, Kupar said:

reckon there are three (possibly five) criteria in play here

Agree with your criteria.   The moral compass is definitely a guiding factor.  One that you maybe missed was the level of alcohol consumed by the person peeing - they tend to be much more relaxed about being seen when they are drunk.   Also, the size of group - girls don't seem to care if they are together with others as they find it funny and they don't feel quite so vulnerable.

2 hours ago, Kupar said:

The UK law on public nudity is an interesting comparison here: it's not illegal to be naked in public, unless (1) you are intending to cause harassment, alarm or distress to someone - and the onus of proof is on the person alarmed and distress to prove that you *intended* to cause them alarm and distress - it's not enough for them to claim they were harassed, alarmed or distressed: this is a really important point). But that doesn't mean that it's a good idea to exercise your right by walking naked down the High Street on a Saturday morning.

Totally agree - the Naked Bike Ride being a case in point.   In the UK exposing yourself to pee would not be anywhere near as much of an issue as in the USA.   If you take reasonable measures to be a bit discrete and don't deliberately expose yourself right in front of someone, then you would be unlikely to be causing alarm and distress.  Therefore, the person peeing (in the UK) wouldn't have to worry about that so much, but there are plenty of by laws against peeing that might be an issue if someone was to report the person that watched them and in doing so had to admit that they had peed in public.

2 hours ago, Kupar said:

The fifth is the extent of the interaction: perhaps a scale from watching without being observed yourself to openly recording the event and making it clear it was going to be on the Web in 20 minutes' time.

2 hours ago, Kupar said:

One issue is that you often can't know for sure what the peeing person's attitude is.

This is where the most problems are likely to occur.  It is very difficult to know how a person is going to respond.   I never hold up a camera and openly take pictures of people I don't know.   As per my sighting reports, I either feign disinterest or apologise for intruding on them or make some comment about how desperate they must have been - or all three.   If the person apologises for peeing (which they often do), then I sometimes try and engage in conversation even if it is just to say "That's ok, no problem" or "It's fine, it looks like you really needed that", which might open up the conversation at least long enough for me to enjoy the view, but in the vast majority of cases I just walk on by, don't intrude on them and enjoy the view as I pass.    Only a very small percentage have ever reacted seriously negatively and for those I just apologise for interrupting them and keep walking.

Of course, for the hidden cameras as per the court case, the girls would not even know that they were being recorded at the time, so it is then purely the question as to whether it is a morally acceptable thing to do.   Personally I doubt that I'd ever be putting together a video of lots of girls peeing and putting it on the internet, but I certainly enjoy watching them when someone else has done it!

 

 

[whiskey35 306]

On 11/3/2021 at 3:49 PM, Alfresco said:

Personally I doubt that I'd ever be putting together a video of lots of girls peeing and putting it on the internet, but I certainly enjoy watching them when someone else has done it!

I suspect the majority of people who enjoy watching them are in the same category Alfresco.

[Bacardi 10,135]

While I do agree with you that out in public there is no general expectation of privacy, I will say that this is the exact reason why I don't/won't pee outside or anywhere not in the privacy of my own home lol. I don't wanna be filmed peeing and then find my face on the internet because I don't even put myself out there sexually like that. I would feel so awful if I peed outside and someone ran up to me throwing a camera in my face, or filmed me from a far. I've peed in a public space once, a pool fitting room and fortunately I was all alone so I doubt I'm on the internet somewhere. I'm very shy, and I'd have a melt down if I ended up on porn hub like that. So my philosophy is to hold it till I get to a toilet. 

But, just because i feel that way doesn't mean it's not legal. If one js going to pop a squat in the middle of a street they should know there are lots of people that could be around recording them. I guess it's just a risk you have to take 😬

[PissOnMyParade 447]

Personally, if I saw a woman peeing in the street, my initial reaction would not be to get my phone out and start recording.

For a start, there's a high chance that by the time i'd got my phone out my pocket, opened up the camera app and fired up the record button, she'd be done peeing anyway. I would be very turned on at the sight of a woman peeing in public and wouldn't want to miss the spectacle by faffing around with my phone.

Secondly, the whole concept of getting a phone out to record a female stranger in such a compromised state with her trousers round her ankles just strikes me as straight up creepy. I don't want to be arrested on indecent images charges.

Obviously the ladylike thing to do is to find a public toilet, so of course, occurences of women peeing in full view of the public are rare. This adds to the turn on for me, like I'm witnessing something I shouldn't be able to see, so that to me is all the more reason to not let the opportunity to view a woman peeing in public slip. However it would only ever be an incident between me and the girl peeing. No girl I ever watch pee will ever end up on the internet. 

Edited November 9, 2021 by PissOnMyParade

[Kupar 13,341]

7 minutes ago, PissOnMyParade said:

Personally, if I saw a woman peeing in the street, my initial reaction would not be to get my phone out and start recording.

For a start, there's a high chance that by the time i'd got my phone out my pocket, opened up the camera app and fired up the record button, she'd be done peeing anyway. I would be very turned on at the sight of a woman peeing in public and wouldn't want to miss the spectacle by faffing around with my phone.

Secondly, the whole concept of getting a phone out to record a female stranger in such a compromised state with her trousers round her ankles just strikes me as straight up creepy. I don't want to be arrested on indecent images charges.

Obviously the ladylike thing to do is to find a public toilet, so of course, occurences of women peeing in full view of the public are rare. This adds to the turn on for me, like I'm witnessing something I shouldn't be able to see, so that to me is all the more reason to not let the opportunity to view a woman peeing in public slip. However it would only ever be an incident between me and the girl peeing. No girl I ever watch pee will ever end up on the internet. 

Spot on.

[Peewee123 1,125]

Overall I would say no. I don’t think anyone should be secretly filming anyone, and I don’t think anyone should whip a camera out if they see someone compromised like that. It is polite to look away and leave them to it. If however they choose to squat and pee where there is CCTV and there’s signs announcing it then it’s kind of her own fault for doing it and it’s fair enough to watch the film as it’s your cctv but it shouldn’t be shared with others or online unless she agrees to it. I think basically if you are doing it secretly it’s because you know they won’t like it and therefore it’s questionable. If you set up a pee spot and declare it’s filmed and will be watched and everyone is happy then fair game! 🤣

[likesToLick 10,216]

To me it seems reasonable to expect that anything you do in a public place could be seen or photographed by a member of the public.

That is,  it would not be reasonable to expect privacy in a public place.

 

Edited November 9, 2021 by likesToLick
added more

[Dr.P 1,473]

In the USA, the laws, and their enforcement, vary widely with geographic location, and local attitudes. And surveillance cameras are now ubiquitous. Both the pee'er and the observer can be in serious trouble. The pee'er can be arrested for public urination, which is usually a misdemeanor, and not too serious. It is usually applied to men, very rarely to women. Simply viewing someone peeing, with the naked eye, may or may not be a problem, depending on the awareness and attitude of the pee'er, and his or her gender. If the pee'er is a male, he can be charged with indecent exposure, and branded as a sex offender. If the pee'er is a female, is aware that she is being watched, and makes a public outcry, it can lead to arrest of the observer, and branding him as a sex offender, which can have very serious consequences, including jail time and restrictions on future places of residence. Taking photographs or videos can have similar, and worse consequences, since they can provide hard evidence to the authorities, in addition to unsupported verbal accusations. So modern technologies and general paranoia have changed behavior drastically, during my thankfully long lifetime. Many of my most fun and memorable activities, from my younger days, could now lead to incarceration.  

[PissOnMyParade 447]

On 11/10/2021 at 12:06 AM, Dr.P said:

In the USA, the laws, and their enforcement, vary widely with geographic location, and local attitudes. And surveillance cameras are now ubiquitous. Both the pee'er and the observer can be in serious trouble. The pee'er can be arrested for public urination, which is usually a misdemeanor, and not too serious. It is usually applied to men, very rarely to women. Simply viewing someone peeing, with the naked eye, may or may not be a problem, depending on the awareness and attitude of the pee'er, and his or her gender. If the pee'er is a male, he can be charged with indecent exposure, and branded as a sex offender. If the pee'er is a female, is aware that she is being watched, and makes a public outcry, it can lead to arrest of the observer, and branding him as a sex offender, which can have very serious consequences, including jail time and restrictions on future places of residence. Taking photographs or videos can have similar, and worse consequences, since they can provide hard evidence to the authorities, in addition to unsupported verbal accusations. So modern technologies and general paranoia have changed behavior drastically, during my thankfully long lifetime. Many of my most fun and memorable activities, from my younger days, could now lead to incarceration.  

Note how the man gets branded as the sex offender whether he was the one peeing or not...

The key phrase in this comment is "unsupported verbal accusations".

If the pee'er is female and aware that there is a man watching her pee in a public place, all she has to do is scream bloody murder even if she agreed to let him watch in the first place, and then that man's life gets completely fucked up from that day forward. In other words, even if a man successfully takes all the precautionary steps to make sure it's as comfortable an exchange as humanly possible, he's still literally risking everything should she retrospectively change her mind...

This to me points to a much wider problem in society. There is no legal protection for a man when a woman falsely accuses him to the authorities. Apologies for going off-piste here but as a man myself I find this fact deeply concerning...

Edited November 11, 2021 by PissOnMyParade

[GWash17 383]

Absolutely nothing wrong with it. It's perfectly legal to photograph someone in a public space, even if they are doing something embarrassing. And I highly doubt that a woman could get a man in trouble if he films her peeing in public without getting in trouble herself, since peeing in public is illegal in most areas.

[gldenwetgoose 21,500]

Fascinating to consider how individual countries' attitudes and laws can vary - so of course anyone would have to take note of the law in their individual countries, and any changes introduced.

For example in the UK, the Voyeurism Act of April 2019 makes it illegal to photograph 'upskirts' with a potential prison sentence, and whilst I don't know of precedence, I guess it'd be a pretty easy prosecution argument that photographing a lady with bits on show whilst peeing is also similar.  The wording on the UK Government website includes:

"The Voyeurism Act outlaws ‘upskirting’ where the purpose is to obtain sexual gratification, or to cause humiliation, distress or alarm. This includes instances where culprits say images were just taken ‘for a laugh’ or when paparazzi are caught taking intrusive images."

In other words - check before you click (or before you pee in public). 

[GWash17 383]

15 hours ago, gldenwetgoose said:

Fascinating to consider how individual countries' attitudes and laws can vary - so of course anyone would have to take note of the law in their individual countries, and any changes introduced.

For example in the UK, the Voyeurism Act of April 2019 makes it illegal to photograph 'upskirts' with a potential prison sentence, and whilst I don't know of precedence, I guess it'd be a pretty easy prosecution argument that photographing a lady with bits on show whilst peeing is also similar.  The wording on the UK Government website includes:

"The Voyeurism Act outlaws ‘upskirting’ where the purpose is to obtain sexual gratification, or to cause humiliation, distress or alarm. This includes instances where culprits say images were just taken ‘for a laugh’ or when paparazzi are caught taking intrusive images."

In other words - check before you click (or before you pee in public). 

What a stupid law! At least it's still legal where I live...

[Peevert 935]

On 11/10/2021 at 10:28 AM, PissOnMyParade said:

Note how the man gets branded as the sex offender whether he was the one peeing or not...

That, unfortunately, is quite true.  I started to rant and deleted it, this is a pee forum, not a political forum.  

[janny-ammerson 66]

I don't think it's wrong because it's doing the thing that can be recorded.

By the way, I have recorded a lot of videos of peeing a girl in public

[gldenwetgoose 21,500]

Can we keep a little balance here folks - I know the subject is obviously just about 'is it ok to watch and record' but please bear in mind there are two sides to either story.

Please can we stop turning this into a 'it's my right to do it...' type argument.   Also the 'men treated worse than women' arguments aren't helpful.

I'm not singling out any one person there in saying that - but the original question is an opener for intelligent discussion.  Let's have some real and intelligent discussion.  Let's celebrate what Peefans does best of bringing people together.  Some of the comments I'm reading above are just likely to piss off other members - please bear in mind that anything you write here will be read by any and all on the site.  For example whether it is or whether it isn't a crime is perhaps irrelevant to a fellow member here who has been a victim of it themselves.

So let's keep a little respect for one another and celebrate the diversity of our kink.

[MaxWasTaken 522]

This is how i feel about the topic. Im not judging anyone who sees things differently. Im just trying to explain my viewpoint and adding something to the conversation. 

I think the answer is simple: Do they want me to watch them ? If the answer is yes, then it is ok. (Im talking about watching. Recording is always a different story.)

If the answer is no, then it is not ok.

Some similar examples were you CAN do stuff that other people clearly don't want you to do: Staring at other peoples dicks while going to the pissoir. Looking under peoples skirts. Reading other peoples text messages while they text in a public place. Staring / recording people in the sauna/ at the nude beach/ changing room. ... 
I also don't think that there is a difference between looking over/under a toilet stall and watching people pee when they try to be sneaky. They try to not be watched by strangers and you are "circumventing their defenses". 

And it's definitely not ok (in my book) to record random people without their consent. I mean most people are pissed when companies sell their personal information or fear that their webcam might record them without them knowing. 
Heck most people on this forum use an anonymous username and don't show their face anywhere. So even we value our privacy in a place where like minded people come together to discuss their fetish. 
So why would it be okay to put our own pleasure above others peoples desire for privacy ?

Try to get in to the Girls Perspective: 
Just imagine yourself in a compromising situation. Now imagine a person you are definitely not attracted to, staring at you. Now imagine that they take pictures or videos of this situation. They might show it to your boss, your teacher, your mother. Would you want your colleagues masturbating to those pictures ? Or imagine a moment you are embarrassed about. Now imagine that a person you are interested in knows your embarrassing story before you meet them for the first time. 
 

Understand the impact your actions might have: 
Imagine that there were no changing rooms in a clothing store. Would you strip naked and try on your new clothes or would you just buy them blindly hoping that they would fit ? Im saying this because i fear that there are already enough people (that are not in to holding) who suffer because they can't find a place where they feel safe enough to pee. And people might get seriously distressed by this. A friend of mine had a stalker once and while there wasn't anything illegal happening my friend was still mentally wrecked by this whole situation. Im not trying to paint anyone as a stalker here. I just want to stress the fact that what you and the law might see as harmless might really fuck someone up. They don't know that you are just there to watch. They only see some random person staring at them in a dark alley/forest/whatever .

TLDR: My fun ends the moment others get uncomfortable or hurt (mentally/ physically/ financially/... ) and i always try to treat other people the way i want to be treated. 
I also want to remind anyone that we don't do ourselves (the watersports community) a favor when we make people feel more anxious about peeing in general. If we want more people to have fun with this fetish we shouldn't make them associate bad things with peeing.

Edited February 24, 2022 by MaxWasTaken

[Vassal 1,471]

The lack of consent is the issue and even "cues" that may be indicating that they want to be viewed/recorded are subjective until you actually ask or receive consent from whomever is peeing in public.

Just because someone is doing something, anything, in public is not an open invitation to be gawked at or recorded without consent. Whether it's legal or not or if you can physically do it does not make it right. If it's a group of people out bar hopping that are drunk, that's also not an invitation, they are intoxicated and not able to make rational decisions and something in that moment might be a good idea, can be regretted once the person sobers up.

In this specific case, there are a lot of reasons why someone might be peeing in public and despite all of our wildest fantasies, doing it to be watched/because the pisser is getting a thrill out of it is probably very, very low on the list of reasons. Peeing is an especially vulnerable act and someone might only be peeing somewhere other than the toilet as an absolute last option.

Hell even as someone who gets off on wanting to pee in front of others, that's only when I, the pisser, want people to see, and only if I consent. 

[Starks2010 2,197]

On 11/3/2021 at 7:44 AM, Alfresco said:

The moral and legal aspects of peeing in public are areas which could well lead to significantly differing views between people and have been mentioned on some other threads as an aside.    There are several people (including me) on this forum who enjoy seeing girls pee outside and also enjoy reading about accounts from people who have seen girls peeing or even watching videos published online.  There are some great videos out there taken at carnivals and events which feature lots of ladies having a pee in public areas with varying levels of seclusion including between cars, in the woods, behind portaloos or behind a dumpster for example.   The general feeling that I have is that it would be both legally wrong and morally dubious to spy on someone peeing where they have a reasonable expectation of privacy such as in a toilet cubicle or a private bathroom.  However, if a woman (or man for that matter) chooses to pee in a public place, then they no longer have a reasonable expectation of privacy - even if they have taken steps to find a secluded place and think they are unlikely to be spotted.     As I say, that is my view and others may disagree - and I am happy for everyone to have their own views on this and accept that many people may not think that it is appropriate to watch others peeing without permission even if it is in a public place.

The good news for those of us that enjoy public peeing sightings and videos is that recently some ladies raised a court case in Spain where they had been recorded on hidden cameras peeing in a street at a carnival and then they found that videos of them had been put on the internet on porn sites.   The good news for us is that the judge declared that there was no case to answer as the videos were taken in a public place and that no criminal offence had occurred.  I'm not sure who the ladies where trying to get action against, as it says that the identity of the person making the videos is not known - I'm guessing maybe they were campaigning to get their videos removed from the porn sites, but it looks like they were unsuccessful.  The article is on the BBC news page and in the Independent as well as other places and although it took place in Spain, it has been reported in the UK and Canada to name two places:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58747084 and some transcripts have appeared on YouTube as well.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/spain-porn-public-urination-a-maruxaina-b1930512.html

https://thecanadian.news/2021/09/28/judge-munoz-insists-it-is-not-a-crime-to-record-women-urinating-in-the-street-and-upload-the-video-to-a-porn-website/

Of course, that was a Spanish judge relating to Spanish Law and other countries may have different views, but as further support to the view that it is not a criminal offence to watch a woman pee in public - I have a personal experience in the UK where a policeman stopped me when I was out late at night and had been on the lookout for sightings.   He told me that I'd been seen on CCTV hanging around in various places and he wanted to know what I was doing as my behaviour looked a bit suspicious.  I honestly explained that I enjoyed watching ladies with drunk behaviour.  He said that I'd been seen watching a woman urinate in a side street and then checking out the puddle.   I said that as well as general drunk behaviour I enjoyed seeing women peeing outside.   He asked if it was a sexual thing (yes) and he asked if I was married (yes) and whether my wife knew what I was doing.  I said that she knew I enjoyed watching ladies pee outside but she probably didn't know I was doing it right now.    He asked if I had done anything that would have caused the woman distress and I said that I only enjoyed the view that was put in front of me.  I said that I doubted if she had even noticed me.   I was wondering, but didn't say, whether I was only spotted because the CCTV operators had also been enjoying spying on the girl peeing.   He said that there was nothing wrong with what I was doing and after a bit more discussion and a background check on me, he left me to carry on with my evening.

Not said in the court case above, but in actual fact, the act of peeing in public is more likely to be considered to be a crime or civil offence than the act of viewing the peeing.   That is because the person peeing is exposing themselves and also some places have by-laws against public peeing.   Therefore, even if a girl catches you viewing her, she is unlikely to take it further as she won't want to draw attention to what she was doing because (a) she would risk admitting an offence and (b) she would be bringing her act into public knowledge.

So what do others think?   Is it acceptable to seek out girls peeing in public?  Is it acceptable to watch them?  What about photographing and/or filming them?   Is the use of hidden cameras in these circumstances acceptable and would it be OK to publish the photos/videos or just to keep for own use?

 

Well said. 

[peebus10 140]

The Spanish legal case is not over by the way. Even though the judge ruled that it’s not illegal to film in public and therefore not a case, there is still an appeal on the basis of intrusion of privacy. To understand this, I’ll summarize what I’ve understood from the newspaper articles that have been published until now. What bothered most women is not that they were seen peeing, as they admitted that was unlawful and they took that risk,  but being filmed and that the videos were posted online to make money. They feel abused and exploited and they are angry it’s impossible to remove all images from internet which is completely understandable. The makers may not have suspected that it would spread over internet so wildly, but this is ignorant imho. And if the images were blurred probably nobody had really cared about them either. The problem is that watching people pee is at the basis of the fetish. Social etiquette dictates you’re not suppose to do that, which makes it exiting. If people go pee outside there is a real chance of them being seen and you take the risk.  Even being filmed in these times with virtually cameras everywhere.  But being posted recognizable on the internet is at a whole different level of course. One of their main objectives is the producers to be found in order to avoid it happens again and deter others from doing the same thing.

[likesToLick 10,216]

I guess the question "Is it OK" can be interpreted in many ways.

1. "Is it morally right?"
2. "Is it socially acceptable?"
3. "Is it legal?"
4. "Will it get you punched in the face or your camera smashed if you try to do it?"

While I have an opinion that it is morally OK to take any photograph in a public place,  I suspect that is not shared by most people in the general population.   To clarify further,  I don't think that a toilet is a public place, because people in there have a general expectation of privacy..

I suspect that the answers to questions 2, 3 and 4 will depend very much on the time and place of the activity.

 

[gldenwetgoose 21,500]

Thanks for your honesty there @pizzapeople - and I for one completely agree that normalising and removing stigma from pee related activities will allow it to become a more widespread pastime.

Whilst many of us hope to normalise our hobby and hence it doesn't have to be a guilty secret for us, and doesn't have to be such a 'last resort' for those in need of bladder relief, it does also seem that the site has an equal community of those who want to use piss as a means of empowerment. Examples would be in the BDSM practices or vandalism which many enjoy.  And I'm not condemning either approach.  As I suggested above, Peefans is a minority community and we try our hardest to support and build our community.  That's much better done when we're celebrating our twists on the kink rather than splitting into factions.

I personally feel that we are moving in the direction you hope.  For example in the Sex & Porn section of Upskirt images I'm seeing many fewer 'real' accidental upskirt images and much more of a move towards either real member's own pictures or model shoot images. Also fewer hidden camera bathroom clips too.  And of course there was that whole (unpopular for some) decision we made recently around the extreme and physically hurtful content being posted and discussed.

We've always (or at least for a long, long time) had rules in place around content and postings which would be likely to cause offence and still regularly keep a check on things (just as I did in offering the 'guidance' in my last post above).

I do accept though there is still a lot of content out there in the wider world and on the site which some find objectionable and others love - CCTV clips for example - which remain, and I wouldn't foresee changing any time soon.