Ladies Room

[Peefreak99 3,722]

Ok @Blackinksoul30 peace?

[spywareonya 37,961]

9 minutes ago, Peefreak99 said:

Ok @Blackinksoul30 peace?

Ragerldees the actions her personality will engender, HER SOUL ABSORBED your love-proposal, feel sure

I know these things

 

Ignore humans: focus on souls, see them through the behaviours, through the flesh, and you'll see the battle we all suffer to be part of

We ALL wants nothing different than to love and be loved, but we are HURT

The true enemy of us all is ALWAYS the Hub

 

Bravo, Peefreak, and thank you

[Brutus 2,205]

Damn, shit got hot in this thread.

@Blackinksoul30

Look, I took some time to figure how I want to chime in here, if nothing else to simply wrap this up since it seems everyone has spoken. I've long suspected you don't like me, because I noticed you avoided replying to me in your early days, so I left you alone. I don't expect a reply from you here either, but regardless, I want to explain to you why you angered so many, so maybe you at least understand what happened here. I'm trying to help you here. I'm not angry because I figured this was on the horizon, so know that I speak here with calm objectivity and zero emotion blinding me. 

Your bias against men is apparent in how you equate us with negativity, saying things like 'sausage fest' or 'meat fest' in a negative tone. It's a form of objectification to reduce a demographic to genitalia, no different than if a male member referred to women as slits, cunts or holes. It's dehumanizing. Would you refer to a boys softball team, football team, boys scouts, etc. by calling it a sausage fest to their faces? It can be a joke sometimes and guys say it too, but always in fun. You said it in anger and disgust. You also associate a male majority here with something that is bad by saying 'overwhelming' male presence. Imagine if someone said there is an overwhelming black presence and there is a need for a white only space. You've equated men with something that needs fixed. In your other topic about needing more women, you mentioned wanting to see some male members be revered to the level that Spyware is. Doesn't seem you really believe that after saying there is an overwhelming sausage fest going on.

You say women's posts often get buried and ignored. So what? Many more men make posts that also get buried and ignored, but to you, it's only an issue if women's posts get ignored. Then you fire back at Peefreak by shaming him, implying that he hates women for disagreeing with you, going off on a feminist tirade about equal pay and women's issues in general, as if women are the only ones in society that have issues worth being concerned over. That was a condescending way to reply. You can't ridicule someone for being offended after you refer to them in a negative manner and assign flaws to their character.

When you asked how your idea could affect the forum negatively, the answer is simple. Anytime you designate an area, it excludes outsiders and creates an atmosphere of "stay out of here, you're not welcome." That breeds resentment and subverts an acceptance atmosphere. Again I''ll use race to make the point, imagine a white only thread. How the hell could that not cause many members to feel like this is a hostile environment that doesn't promote acceptance for all? Well that's what you want, just for women. Everyone is already free to make any topic, so if you want to make one about makeup, or women's health, you could do that and that would naturally attract women, and men wouldn't feel like you're being hostile. The fact that mostly men are here is not evidence of an issue that needs addressed, it's the result of basic differences between men and women. Women dominate teaching, medical, cosmetics and fashion industries to name a few, and that is a result of their freedom to do what they want. That same freedom is here. You've already confirmed yourself that the handful of women here are highly respected, so that should be clear evidence that this is indeed a very accepting place for women. Creating a women's room won't encourage the lurking women to come out and start posting.

Then you mentioned that you'd be fine with a men's room, but that was only after the disagreements started rolling in. It wasn't on your mind before that, otherwise you would've said in your original post that let's make a men's room and a women's room. It should tell you something that none of the other women here are saying what you are. If they didn't feel accepted, they wouldn't continue to participate. More women will come in time as the forum thrives and maintains the healthy aura that it already has. And there's nothing stopping you from creating a private chat with all the female members and then you'd have a truly secret space that only women could be in. Plenty of members do pm groups already. 

Think about what Spyware told you, it's great insight and she cares about you immensely. I think we all do. As she said, there are deeper things going on.

I hope what I said helps you understand WHY you got the reactions you did. It's not because the men here hate women, it's because you see men as an enemy.

 

[oliver2 4,418]

With respect, @Brutus, if that's calm objectivity, I'm a fruit salad.

(As far as I can tell, finding calm, open-hearted, open-minded discussion about gender equality is like looking for the goddamn philosopher's stone - it's not there, and the process of hunting it typically gets you blown up, poisoned, or both).

Edited July 10, 2019 by oliver2

[spywareonya 37,961]

11 hours ago, oliver2 said:

With respect, @Brutus, if that's calm objectivity, I'm a fruit salad.

(As far as I can tell, finding calm, open-hearted, open-minded discussion about gender equality is like looking for the goddamn philosopher's stone - it's not there, and the process of hunting it typically gets you blown up, poisoned, or both).

Allow me to speak in Brutus favour as I am afraid your mentioning with the @function missed to work, it must be blue like @oliver2 to be working

 

Brutus is the most calm and smart person around here, sometimes he can be STERN but is Always reasoned

And it is true that Blackie saw anything as invasive. To me is not a reason to decrease the enormous esteem I have of her, what the fuck, I had worse shit in me until I changed, we all are crooked for some reasons (or it means we are shallow superficial useless creatures) so I absolutely do not judge Blackie's demons as all important people have theirs, and I loved her deeply, you can check by yourself, I really saw her as a potential human warmachine, her sensitivity could kick asses

But she was blinded by fear

She kept insisting she wanted more friends and then she refused to reply to whatever question

She wasn't in complete knowledge of what she wanted, there was a lot of emotivity and a lot of lacking of self-knowledge in her requests

 

 

I already reacted very positively to some of your old posts, I hope I conquered your trust when I tell you that Brutus can be stern, but is NEVER moved by anger or ill-will

 

Edited July 10, 2019 by spywareonya

[steve25805 126,015]

On 7/7/2019 at 8:18 PM, Blackinksoul30 said:

Clearly i'm getting the vibe that the majority of members don't want more women here. That they are fine with the overwhelming amount of men and 1 woman that posts a lot and a few others that post a bit.

You are wrong here I think. Just because the majority of members who happen to be male seem less than keen on a subforum only for women which excludes them does not mean they don't want more women here. Almost all of us would love to see more women here. But a lot of people would prefer that to happen in ways where everyone can interact with each other without exclusive one gender only areas. 

There are also moderation issues involved potentially. @Admin and two of the three mods are themselves male, with @Sophie the only female mod. If she is the only mod who could moderate a female only subforum, there would be long periods without moderation at all. And if the others have access you have the issue of male mods moderating a female only subforum. Such issues are a complication.

And the simple fact is that no one really likes to be excluded from access to other parts of the forum because of their gender or any other criteria. I for one might harbour concerns that a female only subforum might be used by some to bitch about the men behind their backs. This might not happen but some might suspect it anyway.

I think it potentially creates more problems than it solves.

[steve25805 126,015]

@Blackinksoul30, I would point out that you are totally free to exchange private messages with other ladies, and you can invite as many of them as you wish into any such conversations.

[F.W 5,734]

I think a ladies only room would be good.Maybe we men shouldnt be allowed to read it,it would let out ladies vent anything that we do they dislike.

[spywareonya 37,961]

12 minutes ago, F.W said:

it would let out ladies vent anything that we do they dislike

It's better if they say it our faces and we can either change or explain that they misunderstood us

Funny that I here talk like I was on the "boy" side of the barricade… because I would ahahahah

 

[steve25805 126,015]

1 minute ago, spywareonya said:

Funny that I here talk like I was on the "boy" side of the barricade

I don't like the concept of any barricade between boys and girls.

That is why equal access for all regardless of gender is I think important, with it being up to us mods to clamp down on any unacceptable behaviour.

[F.W 5,734]

I often imagine the girls on here chatting among themselves like,"did you see that stupid post by F.W?What a pervert!"

That sort of thing that we maybe dont need to see!😣

 

[spywareonya 37,961]

9 minutes ago, F.W said:

I often imagine the girls on here chatting among themselves like,"did you see that stupid post by F.W?What a pervert!"

That sort of thing that we maybe dont need to see!😣

 

Peefans does NOT need such kind of girl

THE FUCKING WORLD does not need such kind of girl!!!

If girls like that are here around, it's better that they shut up and avoid being spotted by me

As long as girls like that will exist, my goals (the end to the Sexes War) will be impossible to be achieved

 

A TRUE FEMINIST must first of all desire women to take the place they must in the world: HAND IN HANDS WITH MEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For the Fucking Glory of MotherGoddamnfucking Humanity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

To posses such a whining character is to my opinions already an

11 minutes ago, steve25805 said:

unacceptable behaviour

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[F.W 5,734]

Its just how i often sometimes imagine you girls might chat amongst yourselves.

[spywareonya 37,961]

14 minutes ago, F.W said:

Its just how i often sometimes imagine you girls might chat amongst yourselves.

True women loves true men

Like you

 

I would never be part of such chitchat… women posses a PRIDE to defend… and be nasty against boys make us LOSE that PRIDE

We girls have a fucking cunt to TAKE COCKS (and our friend's fingers and tongues when you guys are not around ihihihihi)

We exist to intermix with YOU boys

 

If we fuck this up we are fucked up ourselves

 

You want to know the kind of men we sincerily do not like? Those men that want sex not because they realize our mutual interdependece but because they see males as something aloof, and females like gasoline to their car, electricity to their phones, and so on

Desiring us blinded by sexual desire and almost skipping everything else is NOT objectification, is just hormons

Considering us as a boost to their male-only glory is objectification

 

Not something I saw here around quite much

Or do you think I would have remained?!

 

 

We do not want to be identical to boys, we want to be

29 minutes ago, steve25805 said:

equal

 

Which is subtler

[DXR 834]

Well, I support Blackinksoul.  I'm amazed at the hostility towards her perfectly reasonable and innocent suggestion.  I can't fathom how anyone could feel threatened by it.  No wonder she's talking about leaving PeeFans and why fewer women post here, if that's they kind of responses they can expect when they post something other than pictures for the guys to look at.

[oliver2 4,418]

On 7/10/2019 at 7:47 PM, spywareonya said:

You want to know the kind of men we sincerily do not like? Those men that want sex not because they realize our mutual interdependece but because they see males as something aloof, and females like gasoline to their car, electricity to their phones, and so on

Desiring us blinded by sexual desire and almost skipping everything else is NOT objectification, is just hormons

Considering us as a boost to their male-only glory is objectification

The trouble is, reading this makes me feel like Father Dougal, mystified by the difference between the small toy cows on the table and the large far away cows outside the window

 

[gldenwetgoose 21,486]

Take ten people and ask for opinions, you'll probably end up with at least a dozen different views!

I believe we all would like to see more ladies actively participating in the forum.  Since the forum is called 'peefans' then fairly obviously what I mean by actively participating is taking part in the sharing of conversation, contributing and declaring appreciation of content (whether it be true and fictional stories, images and video).

I'm a straight male, and my motivation for being here is a love of the female form - particularly when the female in question enjoys holding, deliberately peeing and wetting.  That's me (rightly or wrongly - and the debate of whether I'm a pervert objectifying and degrading women is a separate one).  I can fully accept and encourage ladies who similarly enjoy men peeing, holding or doing whatever that works for those ladies.  Similarly with the folks of whatever gender who enjoy same sex relationships and displays.  In other words, anyone who appreciates anyone else.  Some of the content I choose not to look at, but that's my preference and I don't have any issue with it.

I also think it's valuable to have 'off-topic' forum areas such as exists for general chat.  To me, the type of content @Blackinksoul30 has mentioned which would be most relevant for ladies, surely just fits in as individual threads there?  There's nothing to stop any member creating a topic which may only be interesting to a subset of the general membership - whether that be my love of whisky or somebody's favourite skincare product.

Fundamentally the site is Peefans - it's not going to attract lots of ladies who chat in a ladies dedicated off-topic chat area - it's going to attract people who accept the premise of the site when they hit the landing page, and are bold enough to register a membership and actively participate.  We all understand that the banner adverts on the landing page are essentially outside admin's control - perhaps they don't directly help attract ladies?  Perhaps there are behaviours of some male members which unwittingly discourage retention?

I don't think having a dedicated ladies area addresses any of those issues - but I do welcome participation by ALL.

[Brutus 2,205]

On 7/10/2019 at 1:17 PM, spywareonya said:

Brutus is the most calm and smart person around here, sometimes he can be STERN but is Always reasoned

I would never consider myself the most calm or smart person here, but I appreciate your kind words.

My post was definitely stern and I expected it might ruffle some feathers but that's part of discourse sometimes. I read the entire thread and felt that the best way I could offer something here is to unpack the disagreements she was getting, and explain them to the best of my ability. Emotions got tense prior to me seeing the conversation and it seemed like the core of the dissent wasn't fully articulated among the arguing. So it may have felt harsh and judgmental to some, but I just felt it needed broken out in raw terms. It's fine if others disagree. Ultimately it's just my observation.

[spywareonya 37,961]

On ‎7‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 8:58 AM, oliver2 said:

The trouble is, reading this makes me feel like Father Dougal, mystified by the difference between the small toy cows on the table and the large far away cows outside the window

 

All the good and the bad of the world lies in these subtle differences

What is obvious is, well, OBVIOUSLY already undestood and mastered in a perfectly far-sighted and responsible way

What is subtle just escaped us for a bit longer

And is yet to be mastered

That's why we exist, as humans

Everything we experience first person can be shared and though not being the same of first-person experience, can teach Others a new chapter of the instructions manual for the Human Being

 

Live

Explore

Grow Up

Share

 

We are but knots in a Net of Light, expanding love all around

 

No joy is pointless

No pain goes wasted

 

 

 

 

On ‎7‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 8:41 PM, Brutus said:

I would never consider myself the most calm or smart person here

Ih ih ih, well when I post I express my opinion… and in my opinion YOU ARE ahahahahh!!!

[spywareonya 37,961]

On ‎7‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 7:00 AM, DXR said:

Well, I support Blackinksoul.  I'm amazed at the hostility towards her perfectly reasonable and innocent suggestion.  I can't fathom how anyone could feel threatened by it.  No wonder she's talking about leaving PeeFans and why fewer women post here, if that's they kind of responses they can expect when they post something other than pictures for the guys to look at.

Don't misunderstand what happened

We ALL supported Blackie but her goals were subtly tainted by emotional issues which had been already faced in other threads during her time here around

Those who replied with a negative opinion to her posts weren't in any way ridiculizing her ideas, absolutely, we would have never dared

But she was just using such proposals as pawns on a chess-table to express her disappointment about what she felt as a lack of contextualization with the forum, and the world in general

It could have not being fixed with focusing on a precise thing rather than upon an other one, it needed a deeper reflections which we Always respectfully encouraged in her, check each of her past posts in other threads and you'll see that we all loved Blackie's battler against her demons (as we all have ours, unless we are shallow pointless creatures), but this very thread was just a portion of wider picture, and it wasn't the pivot...

[Peefreak99 3,722]

On 7/12/2019 at 7:00 AM, DXR said:

Well, I support Blackinksoul.  I'm amazed at the hostility towards her perfectly reasonable and innocent suggestion.  I can't fathom how anyone could feel threatened by it.  No wonder she's talking about leaving PeeFans and why fewer women post here, if that's they kind of responses they can expect when they post something other than pictures for the guys to look at.

Hostility? But she was hostile towards some of the men commenting..... 

[Peefreak99 3,722]

On 7/10/2019 at 8:17 PM, F.W said:

I think a ladies only room would be good.Maybe we men shouldnt be allowed to read it,it would let out ladies vent anything that we do they dislike.

Yes and then we guys can also have a room to vent in it's only equal then 

[Peefreak99 3,722]

On 7/10/2019 at 4:11 AM, Brutus said:

Damn, shit got hot in this thread.

@Blackinksoul30

Look, I took some time to figure how I want to chime in here, if nothing else to simply wrap this up since it seems everyone has spoken. I've long suspected you don't like me, because I noticed you avoided replying to me in your early days, so I left you alone. I don't expect a reply from you here either, but regardless, I want to explain to you why you angered so many, so maybe you at least understand what happened here. I'm trying to help you here. I'm not angry because I figured this was on the horizon, so know that I speak here with calm objectivity and zero emotion blinding me. 

Your bias against men is apparent in how you equate us with negativity, saying things like 'sausage fest' or 'meat fest' in a negative tone. It's a form of objectification to reduce a demographic to genitalia, no different than if a male member referred to women as slits, cunts or holes. It's dehumanizing. Would you refer to a boys softball team, football team, boys scouts, etc. by calling it a sausage fest to their faces? It can be a joke sometimes and guys say it too, but always in fun. You said it in anger and disgust. You also associate a male majority here with something that is bad by saying 'overwhelming' male presence. Imagine if someone said there is an overwhelming black presence and there is a need for a white only space. You've equated men with something that needs fixed. In your other topic about needing more women, you mentioned wanting to see some male members be revered to the level that Spyware is. Doesn't seem you really believe that after saying there is an overwhelming sausage fest going on.

You say women's posts often get buried and ignored. So what? Many more men make posts that also get buried and ignored, but to you, it's only an issue if women's posts get ignored. Then you fire back at Peefreak by shaming him, implying that he hates women for disagreeing with you, going off on a feminist tirade about equal pay and women's issues in general, as if women are the only ones in society that have issues worth being concerned over. That was a condescending way to reply. You can't ridicule someone for being offended after you refer to them in a negative manner and assign flaws to their character.

When you asked how your idea could affect the forum negatively, the answer is simple. Anytime you designate an area, it excludes outsiders and creates an atmosphere of "stay out of here, you're not welcome." That breeds resentment and subverts an acceptance atmosphere. Again I''ll use race to make the point, imagine a white only thread. How the hell could that not cause many members to feel like this is a hostile environment that doesn't promote acceptance for all? Well that's what you want, just for women. Everyone is already free to make any topic, so if you want to make one about makeup, or women's health, you could do that and that would naturally attract women, and men wouldn't feel like you're being hostile. The fact that mostly men are here is not evidence of an issue that needs addressed, it's the result of basic differences between men and women. Women dominate teaching, medical, cosmetics and fashion industries to name a few, and that is a result of their freedom to do what they want. That same freedom is here. You've already confirmed yourself that the handful of women here are highly respected, so that should be clear evidence that this is indeed a very accepting place for women. Creating a women's room won't encourage the lurking women to come out and start posting.

Then you mentioned that you'd be fine with a men's room, but that was only after the disagreements started rolling in. It wasn't on your mind before that, otherwise you would've said in your original post that let's make a men's room and a women's room. It should tell you something that none of the other women here are saying what you are. If they didn't feel accepted, they wouldn't continue to participate. More women will come in time as the forum thrives and maintains the healthy aura that it already has. And there's nothing stopping you from creating a private chat with all the female members and then you'd have a truly secret space that only women could be in. Plenty of members do pm groups already. 

Think about what Spyware told you, it's great insight and she cares about you immensely. I think we all do. As she said, there are deeper things going on.

I hope what I said helps you understand WHY you got the reactions you did. It's not because the men here hate women, it's because you see men as an enemy.

 

This is the best thing i've read in a loooooong time you are 100% right. And what you said about a white only thread it's funny that a " ladies room" is expected to just be accepted but a " white room" would make hell break loose this is the result of political correctness destroying society. and no i don't want a white room it was just a example. 

[Guest UnabashedUser]

4 hours ago, spywareonya said:

her goals were subtly tainted by emotional issues which had been already faced in other threads during her time here around

👏

[Guest UnabashedUser]

On 7/9/2019 at 7:11 PM, Brutus said:

I hope what I said helps you understand WHY you got the reactions you did. It's not because the men here hate women, it's because you see men as an enemy.

That's the impression I came away with. Good post Brutus.