Islam

[paul66 171]

Read the Koran, after you understand, these(and all religion-opiate for the folk) is a tool/instrumente to Remote control people.....the koran dictates the violance again the Unbelievers....

So when the Tshihad is out called your friendly türk veggie dealer will cut your stem without patting one eyelash.

And the answer to your last reply, not only you pissed me on as "bigot" without know who Iam, Ive to say you, I belive in NOTHING , but the nature, but your emotionale answering say it (not only to me), youre a dangerous terrorist supporter, and the goverment should take care of you, what the hell you search on site like that???

UNDERMINE the Site and the people here ??? WTF !!!!

[Pete2304 36]

Well firstly, Thank you for your delightfully articulate reply. Secondly, I would suggest that you take more water with whatever you are drinking. Thirdly, I'd suggest you don't continue to make posts in the tone you just have.

This discussion has been ongoing for sometime and whilst there have been many different opinions, there is a level of respect for other people's right to have an opinion which should be kept to in any walk of life as far as I'm concerned. By all means make a reasoned point but you have succeeded in doing little else than making yourself look rather silly. I won't go out of my way to contact the mods about this but I would also hazard a guess that anyone reading this may take a pretty dim view of your character.

[spywareonya 37,962]

On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 1:02 AM, Pete2304 said:

This disgusting blanket condemnation of anyone who is born in a different country, or who believes in a different God is hard to actually stomach.

I'm 31 now but four years ago I was diagnosed with cancer. I had known for a very long time that I was poorly and had buried my head in the sand so deeply that by the time I sought help, my outlook was bleak. I was in that much pain and things had gotten that bad I told my doctor I just wanted to be left alone and to be made comfortable, I'd given up. However, he sat me down and said look, things aren't great, I won't lie but you know what Peter there is a chance we can deal with this. I protested till I was blue in the face but this doctor who must have my age if not younger didn't let it go. I walked out of his office but he didn't give up, rang me at three in the morning, phoned my mum, left voicemails till eventually I agreed. Four years later, touch wood I'm ok. At no point did this Muslim man preach hate to me, explode or try and force his religious beliefs on me. He did save my life though. But I suppose it would have been better had he been deported back to his own country (despite him having been brought up three miles down the road in Stockport)

I don't know it his boy stills links in, but I am quoting this out of somebody in the users-table was viewing it and I clicked, came here and read this

 

You all knows I am a Witch, and Witches believe in the fact that men should explore and master both the dark unconscious and its "sinful" desires, matster them but NOT shun them

We also believe all gods from official religions are social constructs, and that the REAL Gods are living beings made of energy (akin to the theory of the Boltzman brains) that oversees us more like sociologists, psychologists and scientists, not at all allmighty nor allknowing, but worthy of our respect and service

 

 

BUT what this boy wrote is AMAZING

marvellous, heart touching, and great!!!

 

 

I do not like islam just as much as I don't like any religions (unless I would have not kept looking for knowledge, in the end stumbling on freemasons scientists making secret scientifical experiments about the Gods), but I have many muslim friends that ignore my occult practices, and they are delicious persons

When one of them discovered I am a Witch, she said I was a "Sufi", a "divine madman". When other non-muslim people find out what I was after. OH SATANIST!!!!

So ok, I acknowledge Islam is manipulated toward war more than crhistianity, but ISLAM IS NOT EVIL at all

It is only manipulated

I read the Qu'Ran and believe me, it's much less violent than the Bible

All things people think that muslims believe about enslaving women ARE NOT IN THE QU'RAN

So read instead of judging!!!

[Scot_Lover 1,878]

20 hours ago, spywareonya said:

 

I do not like islam just as much as I don't like any religions (unless I would have not kept looking for knowledge, in the end stumbling on freemasons scientists making secret scientifical experiments about the Gods), but I have many muslim friends that ignore my occult practices, and they are delicious persons

When one of them discovered I am a Witch, she said I was a "Sufi", a "divine madman". When other non-muslim people find out what I was after. OH SATANIST!!!!

So ok, I acknowledge Islam is manipulated toward war more than crhistianity, but ISLAM IS NOT EVIL at all

It is only manipulated

I read the Qu'Ran and believe me, it's much less violent than the Bible

All things people think that muslims believe about enslaving women ARE NOT IN THE QU'RAN

So read instead of judging!!!

The biggest problem with the Qu'Ran is the religious nutters 'interpretation' of these scriptures, they excel at mangling the scriptures into their perception of what is right. I've read all these things too, and nothing in there relates in any way to the current mind set that justifies the babaric practices that follow this so called religion around.

[spywareonya 37,962]

51 minutes ago, Scot_Lover said:

The biggest problem with the Qu'Ran is the religious nutters 'interpretation' of these scriptures, they excel at mangling the scriptures into their perception of what is right. I've read all these things too, and nothing in there relates in any way to the current mind set that justifies the babaric practices that follow this so called religion around.

the thing is even funnier and more complex

A friend of mine, a muslim girl daughter of a very wealthy family (parents are a doctor and a high-ranking teacher), simply told me that the Language in which the Qu'ran is written isan ancient version of their Language and is highly consonantic, it uses only the root-version of words, and thus it goes straight to the point, excluding any chance of interpretation.

Because of this, since the beginning, humans got angry at it, since it almost forbade all the things many of them like to do now, and they invented on the spot the concept that the Qu'Ran COUDL be interpreted, which is a blasphemy to true believers

So by now, it is considered part of the religion, even part of the sound/safe facet of religion, to interpretate religious tenets, while indeed they should NOT

 

Funny example: The "J'had" is the "STRIVE" for the Muslim to fight his own demons, not foreign people, and quite unavoidably somebody asked "Could it be interpreted as also dfending ourselves from people?" and the Qu'Ran then add: "Verily I testify unto you that The One [Allah] doesn't endorse violence and violent people all alike"

What's to interpretate?

Ahhahahahaha!!!

[2prnot2p 1,066]

They say that religion is one of those topics one shouldn't bring up if he wants to keep the peace.  It tends to lead to conflict.  But, I didn't start this thread, so I'll add my 2-cents worth.

First of all, I'm not a believer in a supreme being.  For all the reasons why, I urge you to watch George Carlin's routine on religion on youtube.  He puts it so well for me.  Having said that, I'll continue.

The muslims haven't killed or hurt 0.01% of the people that christians have killed throughout history.  This is a fact.  The Roman Empire killed pagans, the British Empire did it too.  Then, add the Crusades, etc., and the number is astronomical!  Oh, and let's not forget the Inquisitions!  They went on for over 600 years!!!  What about the IRA in Ireland?  Oh, and we must include the so-called christians who killed abortionists in the name of god.  I hope you see my point.  Oh, just thought of another...the bomber at the Olympics in Atlanta did it for the anti-abortion cause.  That makes no sense, but he bombed 2 abortion clinics as well.

I live among many arabic muslims in the Detroit area.  My city is 40% arabic.  The crime is low.  They are nice, decent people.  There is a mosque a block from my residence.  I do not fear muslims nor do I hate them.  Is everyone in Ireland a potential terrorist with the IRA?  No.  I've lived among arabs and muslims all my life and have never had one problem with them, ever.  A tiny few radicals should not make everyone hate them. I think that's very unfair.  All the ones I know are as anti-terrorism as I am!  And the overwhelming majority of them love the USA.  Trust me, it's true.

Okay, I'll get off of my soap box now. 

 

Edited October 8, 2018 by 2prnot2p

[WantonLee 861]

I still think it is not so much an issue what you believe, but wheter you are dogmatic about it or not.

If you are open for debate and don't want to enforce your views and way to live on me, you can believe what ever the hell you want.

That is unless you believe killing and causing pain to other people or animals is fine - in which case I will never agree, even if you put a gun to my head (I might say I agree, but I would still disagree... I would just shut up... well, ok.., depends on wether living under your thumb is preferable over being dead. So death is an option I will not role out to quickly).

On the other hand: doesn't religion require you to be dogmatic... if you want to be a true believer?

 

Besides, a belief-system does not have to be a religion in order to kill non-believers - the Nazi's weren't atheists (if at all, more christians then atheists), and some of the more radical communist governments were - while being atheistic - certainly not very tolerant versus people not believing in the system. They had a dogma to defend (or rather to enforce).

(Capitalism is much more elegant in that regard: its not enough to disagree with the system to get killed, you just need to stop being competitive enough to hold a job, regardless if it is your own fault or not.)

 

So for me it's irrelevant if you believe in a god or an(y other) idea - if you are dogmatic AND have (enough) power, everyone else has a problem: you.

[2prnot2p 1,066]

Addendum to my earlier post:

One thing about muslims that I am not fond of is the way they treat women as second class citizens.  However, they're not all like that.  Many of the American-born muslim women don't cover their hair or conform to the strict rules for women in muslim countries.  But if you're talking about Saudi Arabia, forget about it!  They are the worst when comes to not just women's rights, but human rights in general.  In that case, we are talking about the Dark Ages, for sure.

And yet, the Saudis are our "friends."  Our being the USA.  What a joke!

[F.W 5,734]

This is my take,like it or lump it.

Islam,seems to me to have a creed of superiority,much like Mein Kampf.It holds that Muslims are a kind of master race,and the rest of us are what in Nazi terms,"Untermensch".I guess it can be said that "elements of some interpretations can be misread by some as a call to violence".Hmmmmm,in other words then,IT CAN BE READ AS A CALL TO VIOLENCE.Unfortunately there ARE passages in the KORAN that state this..Are we supposed to be grateful that some "moderates" choose to ignore these passages?Do they not kill us,because they "CHOOSE" not to?Are they letting us naughty "kuffars" off a grisly death as we live our sinful lives?How nice of them!Also,not forgetting the absolute mysogyny it demands of women..I havent studied the Bible much lately,but i dont recall any passages telling me that it was my duty as a Catholic,to kill non-believers wherever i find them,or make them convert to Christianity,nope,cant recall that.I do remember something about "Thou shalt NOT kill",which im happy to say i have always observed to date anyway...

In much the same way,Mein Kampf was a call to invade Russia,and subjugate its sub-human population.Maybe at the time,if we had apologists for Hitler in the 30s,they might have said"he doesnt mean that,its just how certain senior Nazis interpret his words"..

Dont get me wrong,i dont give a toss,what anyone believes,providing their beliefs DONT include mass murder,or the ritual killing of livestock.I think Islam has what might be called a "PR problem",it needs to sort itself out,or justify why we should tolerate it much longer.....The problem we have in the western world,is the Left have tied Islam up with their favourite cause,"race".Religion,is NOT "race".

[F.W 5,734]

What has been glossed over far too much are the following incidents.A big deal at the time,quickly brushed under the carpet.All committed by Muslims,in the name of Islam,for what to me,seem baffling objectives.Thousands of innocent citizens in total murdered for no reason,other than religious doctrine,that being a backward primitive,mysogynistic fairy tale really.

In no particular order;

New York 9/11-over 3000 killed

Madrid railway bombings about 200 killed hundreds injured

Bali bombings maybe around 150 killed

London 5/7 05 around 50 killed,hundreds wounded

Manchester arena 2017 about 20 killed,many young schoolkids youngest 8 years old.

Lee Rigby,off duty soldier butchered on Londons streets by 2 Islamic fanatics

Nice truck attack was it 60-80 killed?

 

Paris 13/11/15 attacks,over 120 dead.People at a rock show in wheelchairs lined up and shot in the head one by one.Done by Islamic killers who entered Europe as "refugees",and escaped for a while due to the EUs open borders laws.

Others i cant remember,as too many to count,Sweden,Holland,Germany,Belgium,all suffered with this cult.We should every year have minutes silences on the anniversaries in each country to recall these poor citizens,but NO.This would "offend certain "communities"we are told!

Wake up people,this is WAR.A war not of our choosing,like Pearl Harbour,was not Americas choice,but once attacked,had to fight back.I dont think President Roosevelt the next day went on the Radio,and said something like "we must not jump to conclusions about this incident,we know certain elements of an Asiatic power,have misread their ancient Samurai teachings,and we must ensure we dont demonise the Japanese population,at this time!"No he said"This is day which will live in infamy!"Then set about destroying the Japanese Empire,not making excuses for them.

Edited October 12, 2018 by fannywatcher

[Scot_Lover 1,878]

How can this be stopped? The culture now has such a foothold in most countries, that any move to get it out results in the discrimination beast rearing its ugly head. 

Kids in our schools no longer sing the National Anthem, Religous Education is no longer taught in our schools, Easter and Christmas have all but disappeared, they are still celebrated, but you can't buy anything that has the words 'Hapy Easter' or 'Merry Christmas' printed on them. No, it's just turned into 'Happy Holidays' with no thought whatsoever into what this time of the year means. 

When I picked up my ladies from Melbourne Airport a few weeks ago, the 'discrimination' against normal people was horrible, Mary had to take her scarf off because it covered her neck, yet these 'full book' Muslims were just waved through customs as if it wasn't there. 

There are some suburbs in Melbourne now, that normal people can't visit, you are just not welcome in a place that has been around for 100 years. Oh, and the police force recruited Muslims to be the resident police in these areas, what does that tell you?

Where can a Christian go to protest against the freedoms and beliefs that we have lost?

This is something we will never win.

[2prnot2p 1,066]

On 10/12/2018 at 3:42 PM, fannywatcher said:

What has been glossed over far too much are the following incidents.A big deal at the time,quickly brushed under the carpet.All committed by Muslims,in the name of Islam,for what to me,seem baffling objectives.Thousands of innocent citizens in total murdered for no reason,other than religious doctrine,that being a backward primitive,mysogynistic fairy tale really.

In no particular order;

New York 9/11-over 3000 killed

Madrid railway bombings about 200 killed hundreds injured

Bali bombings maybe around 150 killed

London 5/7 05 around 50 killed,hundreds wounded

Manchester arena 2017 about 20 killed,many young schoolkids youngest 8 years old.

Lee Rigby,off duty soldier butchered on Londons streets by 2 Islamic fanatics

Nice truck attack was it 60-80 killed?

 

Paris 13/11/15 attacks,over 120 dead.People at a rock show in wheelchairs lined up and shot in the head one by one.Done by Islamic killers who entered Europe as "refugees",and escaped for a while due to the EUs open borders laws.

Others i cant remember,as too many to count,Sweden,Holland,Germany,Belgium,all suffered with this cult.We should every year have minutes silences on the anniversaries in each country to recall these poor citizens,but NO.This would "offend certain "communities"we are told!

Wake up people,this is WAR.A war not of our choosing,like Pearl Harbour,was not Americas choice,but once attacked,had to fight back.I dont think President Roosevelt the next day went on the Radio,and said something like "we must not jump to conclusions about this incident,we know certain elements of an Asiatic power,have misread their ancient Samurai teachings,and we must ensure we dont demonise the Japanese population,at this time!"No he said"This is day which will live in infamy!"Then set about destroying the Japanese Empire,not making excuses for them.

The deaths you list are a drop in the bucket when compared to the scores of pagans killed, imprisoned, or tortured by christians in human history!  It's a fact.  Read my prior post.  What do you say about them?  They killed in the name of christ.  No difference at all.  It was convert or else.

As for your mention of the treatment of Japanese Americans during WWII, it was wrong.  They put over 100,000 American citizens in concentration camps!  It's still a black eye on U.S. history.  I once worked with a woman who was a little girl in one of those camps out west.  She said, "My brother was fighting the Nazis in Europe while my parents and I were in a prison camp!"  Real nice, eh?  FDR should have showed restraint and not acted like a paranoid lunatic, as if all Japanese Americans were spies for the Emperor.  Ridiculous!

Edited October 24, 2018 by 2prnot2p

[2prnot2p 1,066]

On 10/12/2018 at 5:42 PM, Scot_Lover said:

How can this be stopped? The culture now has such a foothold in most countries, that any move to get it out results in the discrimination beast rearing its ugly head. 

Kids in our schools no longer sing the National Anthem, Religous Education is no longer taught in our schools, Easter and Christmas have all but disappeared, they are still celebrated, but you can't buy anything that has the words 'Hapy Easter' or 'Merry Christmas' printed on them. No, it's just turned into 'Happy Holidays' with no thought whatsoever into what this time of the year means. 

When I picked up my ladies from Melbourne Airport a few weeks ago, the 'discrimination' against normal people was horrible, Mary had to take her scarf off because it covered her neck, yet these 'full book' Muslims were just waved through customs as if it wasn't there. 

There are some suburbs in Melbourne now, that normal people can't visit, you are just not welcome in a place that has been around for 100 years. Oh, and the police force recruited Muslims to be the resident police in these areas, what does that tell you?

Where can a Christian go to protest against the freedoms and beliefs that we have lost?

This is something we will never win.

Did it ever occur to you that is was wrong back then?  Just a thought.  There shouldn't be religious education in schools.  That's what church and the home are for.  I can't speak about Australia as I'm in the USA.  However, I strongly believe in separation of church and state.  Where does it say that if something is christian in nature, it's good and okay?  Wrong.  Religion has its place and it's not in schools.  That goes for Islam, Judaism, all of them.

As far as the holidays are concerned, I see nothing wrong with the secular aspect of xmas.  Actually, it was originally a pagan holiday known as the Winter Solstice.  Early christians were banned from participating in that pagan holiday and complained to the priests.  To pacify them, the priests came up with, "Well, what do you know?  That's also our lord's birthday!  Sure, you can now observe the holiday."  (They didn't know christ's birthday as myths don't have those.)  The wreath, the tree, the yule log...none of them are christian.  Their origins are completely pagan.  You can confirm this with very little research as I did many years ago.  So, maybe save the religious holiday cards and wishes for friends that you know feel the same as you.  Sounds like a plan to me.

In closing, here's a fun fact for you.  Sweden is approximately 89% atheistic.  Yet, they have ethics, lawfulness, kindness, and good values.  Their crime is way lower than that of the USA.  Hmmm...it seems as though religion is not really required in a society.

Edited October 23, 2018 by 2prnot2p

[2prnot2p 1,066]

On 10/8/2018 at 7:22 AM, owlman76 said:

My biggest problem with them is how they think they have the right to everything! In the UK, they want loads of mosques, all halal meat, all women to be wrapped up from head to foot, and Muslim schools, yet they want to live in what is a non-Muslim country!

In parts of London we have the so-called sharia police, they go around beating up young westernized Muslims for not complying with their rules, now hang on a moment, we have our own police, they enforce British laws, if they want to live by Muslim law then go live in a Muslim country. We, as westerners, are told that when visiting Muslim countries, women should not wear bikinis, or short skirts etc to avoid showing too much bare flesh as it is against their code, we are expected to comply with this, as we are also expected to not drink alcohol, there is the old saying, "when in Rome, do as the Romans do", in other words, you fit in with their lifestyle, imagine if we went to a Muslim country, drank alcohol in public, demanded Christian churches, and allowed our women to walk around scantily dressed, there'd be uproar, yet they want to live in my country, yet turn it into a sort of Muslim state, it's not happening! We have enough issues with women wearing veils over their faces, if I go into a bank wearing a crash helmet I must remove it, same applies with a balaclava, or any form of face covering, they want to see my face, yet women wear their veils and if anything is said they scream "race discrimination".

A couple of years ago I was instrumental in uncovering a fairly large terrorist training camp run by these so-called "peace-loving " people, right in the heart of one of Englands most beautiful and scenic parts of the countryside. Personally, I wouldn't trust any of them.

All the things that you describe are wrong and should never happen!  I agree 100% with you.  That sort of radical, lawless behavior must not be tolerated.  It seems that somehow the UK got many of the undesirable type of muslims.  As I stated, my city is 40% arabic and muslim and none of that stuff happens here.  I'm in the Detroit area.  I do empathize with you, for sure.

We have immigrants from Yemen, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan, Egypt, and other nations.  So, I'm not sure what accounts for the incidents you mention.  I have learned of bad things happening in England in regards to muslims.  Hopefully, a solution will be implemented soon!

Edited October 23, 2018 by 2prnot2p

[Scot_Lover 1,878]

3 hours ago, 2prnot2p said:

Did it ever occur to you that is was wrong back then?  Just a thought.  There shouldn't be religious education in schools.  That's what church and the home are for.  I can't speak about Australia as I'm in the USA.  However, I strongly believe in separation of church and state.  Where does it say that if something is christian in nature, it's good and okay?  Wrong.  Religion has its place and it's not in schools.  That goes for Islam, Judaism, all of them.

As far as the holidays are concerned, I see nothing wrong with the secular aspect of xmas.  Actually, it was originally a pagan holiday known as the Winter Solstice.  Early christians were banned from participating in that pagan holiday and complained to the priests.  To pacify them, the priests came up with, "Well, what do you know?  That's also our lord's birthday!  Sure, you can now observe the holiday."  (They didn't know christ's birthday as myths don't have those.)  The wreath, the tree, the yule log...none of them are christian.  Their origins are completely pagan.  You can confirm this with very little research as I did many years ago.  So, maybe save the religious holiday cards and wishes for friends that you know feel the same as you.  Sounds like a plan to me.

In closing, here's a fun fact for you.  Sweden is approximately 89% atheistic.  Yet, they have ethics, lawfulness, kindness, and good values.  Their crime is way lower than that of the USA.  Hmmm...it seems as though religion is not really required in a society.

I agree with your points, I'm totally atheist as well, Prodestant is what's on my birth certificate and that's as close as I get. Same with my ladies, don't care either way, never been to a church service in the time I've known them. We were even married on a beach overlooking the ocean, no church service. 

The point I was trying to make was the changes that have occurred in our life times, so much has changed and so much has been 'accommodated' for, due to a religion that was almost unheard of in this country 10 years ago. I saw the first burka in London of all places in 2005. Like I said earlier, Armadale in Melbourne, a suburb that's been there for 80 odd years, is effectively a no go zone for normal Aussies. There are people in there that are actively implementing Sharia Law, even to the point of genital mutilation of a 15 year old girl. ( The person who performed operation this was thrown out of the country)

You are right, so many people have died over who has the best 'imaginary big brother' 

[spywareonya 37,962]

On ‎10‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 4:33 AM, 2prnot2p said:

Is everyone in Ireland a potential terrorist with the IRA?  No.  I've lived among arabs and muslims all my life and have never had one problem with them, ever.  A tiny few radicals should not make everyone hate them. I think that's very unfair.  All the ones I know are as anti-terrorism as I am!  And the overwhelming majority of them love the USA.  Trust me, it's true

 

I really liked this passage. It's marvellous and very correct. Muslim individuals can do pushy things but this doesn't mark a Whole religion or ethny!!

[spywareonya 37,962]

On ‎10‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 1:22 PM, owlman76 said:

My biggest problem with them is how they think they have the right to everything! In the UK, they want loads of mosques, all halal meat, all women to be wrapped up from head to foot, and Muslim schools, yet they want to live in what is a non-Muslim country!

In parts of London we have the so-called sharia police, they go around beating up young westernized Muslims for not complying with their rules, now hang on a moment, we have our own police, they enforce British laws, if they want to live by Muslim law then go live in a Muslim country. We, as westerners, are told that when visiting Muslim countries, women should not wear bikinis, or short skirts etc to avoid showing too much bare flesh as it is against their code, we are expected to comply with this, as we are also expected to not drink alcohol, there is the old saying, "when in Rome, do as the Romans do", in other words, you fit in with their lifestyle, imagine if we went to a Muslim country, drank alcohol in public, demanded Christian churches, and allowed our women to walk around scantily dressed, there'd be uproar, yet they want to live in my country, yet turn it into a sort of Muslim state, it's not happening! We have enough issues with women wearing veils over their faces, if I go into a bank wearing a crash helmet I must remove it, same applies with a balaclava, or any form of face covering, they want to see my face, yet women wear their veils and if anything is said they scream "race discrimination".

 

For love of truth, this too is real anyway

 

On ‎10‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 1:22 PM, owlman76 said:

A couple of years ago I was instrumental in uncovering a fairly large terrorist training camp run by these so-called "peace-loving " people, right in the heart of one of Englands most beautiful and scenic parts of the countryside

I Always said you are a hero

 

On ‎10‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 1:22 PM, owlman76 said:

 

 

Personally, I wouldn't trust any of them.

With this, I beg you to avoid past events cloud you!

[spywareonya 37,962]

On ‎10‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 9:54 PM, WantonLee said:

I still think it is not so much an issue what you believe, but wheter you are dogmatic about it or not.

If you are open for debate and don't want to enforce your views and way to live on me, you can believe what ever the hell you want.

That is unless you believe killing and causing pain to other people or animals is fine - in which case I will never agree, even if you put a gun to my head (I might say I agree, but I would still disagree... I would just shut up... well, ok.., depends on wether living under your thumb is preferable over being dead. So death is an option I will not role out to quickly).

On the other hand: doesn't religion require you to be dogmatic... if you want to be a true believer?

 

Besides, a belief-system does not have to be a religion in order to kill non-believers - the Nazi's weren't atheists (if at all, more christians then atheists), and some of the more radical communist governments were - while being atheistic - certainly not very tolerant versus people not believing in the system. They had a dogma to defend (or rather to enforce).

(Capitalism is much more elegant in that regard: its not enough to disagree with the system to get killed, you just need to stop being competitive enough to hold a job, regardless if it is your own fault or not.)

 

So for me it's irrelevant if you believe in a god or an(y other) idea - if you are dogmatic AND have (enough) power, everyone else has a problem: you.

I wanted to quote this message line per line but it was too much of a Whole to be fragmented.

Dogma is a complicated thing. You see, the problem is that when you believe something too strong you can become tactless to those around you. But a man couldn't either believe in nothing to be spared this fate.

But I think we should judge people according to their behaviour rather than according to their beliefs

[spywareonya 37,962]

On ‎10‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 7:20 PM, 2prnot2p said:

Addendum to my earlier post:

One thing about muslims that I am not fond of is the way they treat women as second class citizens.  However, they're not all like that.  Many of the American-born muslim women don't cover their hair or conform to the strict rules for women in muslim countries.  But if you're talking about Saudi Arabia, forget about it!  They are the worst when comes to not just women's rights, but human rights in general.  In that case, we are talking about the Dark Ages, for sure.

And yet, the Saudis are our "friends."  Our being the USA.  What a joke!

Finally somebody who dissect the problem in a fitting way!!

[spywareonya 37,962]

On ‎10‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 9:28 PM, fannywatcher said:

This is my take,like it or lump it.

Islam,seems to me to have a creed of superiority,much like Mein Kampf.It holds that Muslims are a kind of master race,and the rest of us are what in Nazi terms,"Untermensch".I guess it can be said that "elements of some interpretations can be misread by some as a call to violence".Hmmmmm,in other words then,IT CAN BE READ AS A CALL TO VIOLENCE.Unfortunately there ARE passages in the KORAN that state this..Are we supposed to be grateful that some "moderates" choose to ignore these passages?Do they not kill us,because they "CHOOSE" not to?Are they letting us naughty "kuffars" off a grisly death as we live our sinful lives?How nice of them!Also,not forgetting the absolute mysogyny it demands of women..I havent studied the Bible much lately,but i dont recall any passages telling me that it was my duty as a Catholic,to kill non-believers wherever i find them,or make them convert to Christianity,nope,cant recall that.I do remember something about "Thou shalt NOT kill",which im happy to say i have always observed to date anyway...

In much the same way,Mein Kampf was a call to invade Russia,and subjugate its sub-human population.Maybe at the time,if we had apologists for Hitler in the 30s,they might have said"he doesnt mean that,its just how certain senior Nazis interpret his words"..

Dont get me wrong,i dont give a toss,what anyone believes,providing their beliefs DONT include mass murder,or the ritual killing of livestock.I think Islam has what might be called a "PR problem",it needs to sort itself out,or justify why we should tolerate it much longer.....The problem we have in the western world,is the Left have tied Islam up with their favourite cause,"race".Religion,is NOT "race".

Both the Bible and the Qu'Ran have their dark and light passages. I agree with you about the fact people are their actions not their beliefs, but indeed previous post of 2prnot2p is good about this: muslim INDIVIDUALS can be as you and @owlman76 denounced, indeed. But many of them are modernizing and adapting!

[spywareonya 37,962]

On ‎10‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 9:42 PM, fannywatcher said:

I dont think President Roosevelt the next day went on the Radio,and said something like "we must not jump to conclusions about this incident,we know certain elements of an Asiatic power,have misread their ancient Samurai teachings,and we must ensure we dont demonise the Japanese population,at this time!"No he said"This is day which will live in infamy!"Then set about destroying the Japanese Empire,not making excuses for them.

In that occasion he was right, because the government of Japan issued an attack. Terrorists are not an army, they are isolated scumbags. When in the past some countries armed them, these nations got an all-out war declared by USA and allies.

I see your point Fanny, believe me I understand you, but I don't think Islam is the problem. Nobody killed innocents like christians did, for millennia, but Christianism teaches to do the opposite.

It's Always difficult to divide lone wolves from "a People", but we must be clever about that

[spywareonya 37,962]

On ‎10‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 11:42 PM, Scot_Lover said:

How can this be stopped? The culture now has such a foothold in most countries, that any move to get it out results in the discrimination beast rearing its ugly head. 

Kids in our schools no longer sing the National Anthem, Religous Education is no longer taught in our schools, Easter and Christmas have all but disappeared, they are still celebrated, but you can't buy anything that has the words 'Hapy Easter' or 'Merry Christmas' printed on them. No, it's just turned into 'Happy Holidays' with no thought whatsoever into what this time of the year means. 

When I picked up my ladies from Melbourne Airport a few weeks ago, the 'discrimination' against normal people was horrible, Mary had to take her scarf off because it covered her neck, yet these 'full book' Muslims were just waved through customs as if it wasn't there. 

There are some suburbs in Melbourne now, that normal people can't visit, you are just not welcome in a place that has been around for 100 years. Oh, and the police force recruited Muslims to be the resident police in these areas, what does that tell you?

Where can a Christian go to protest against the freedoms and beliefs that we have lost?

This is something we will never win.

Debunking dogmas shouldn't be transformed into eradicating culural identity. It's just a phase, people are rebelling against old ties, but it will settle down in the next years I'm sure, like every other rebellious wave of the past

[spywareonya 37,962]

7 hours ago, 2prnot2p said:

Did it ever occur to you that is was wrong back then?  Just a thought.  There shouldn't be religious education in schools.  That's what church and the home are for.  I can't speak about Australia as I'm in the USA.  However, I strongly believe in separation of church and state.  Where does it say that if something is christian in nature, it's good and okay?  Wrong.  Religion has its place and it's not in schools.  That goes for Islam, Judaism, all of them.

As far as the holidays are concerned, I see nothing wrong with the secular aspect of xmas.  Actually, it was originally a pagan holiday known as the Winter Solstice.  Early christians were banned from participating in that pagan holiday and complained to the priests.  To pacify them, the priests came up with, "Well, what do you know?  That's also our lord's birthday!  Sure, you can now observe the holiday."  (They didn't know christ's birthday as myths don't have those.)  The wreath, the tree, the yule log...none of them are christian.  Their origins are completely pagan.  You can confirm this with very little research as I did many years ago.  So, maybe save the religious holiday cards and wishes for friends that you know feel the same as you.  Sounds like a plan to me.

In closing, here's a fun fact for you.  Sweden is approximately 89% atheistic.  Yet, they have ethics, lawfulness, kindness, and good values.  Their crime is way lower than that of the USA.  Hmmm...it seems as though religion is not really required in a society.



But we should also avoid demonize religion. From your words, it exudes some kind of grudge against religion, like it was a wrong thing to be kept away from the public and indulged privately as every other wrong thing stupid people have the right to do to/with themselves like taking drugs or self-mutilation.

Beware, I'm not accusing you, I deeply understand your reasons, but antipathy fogs vision and make us harsh to people belonging to the group we adverse. I amNOT saying you were rude to Scot, it's subtler: I am saying you shunned his concern, because in your unconscious his love for religion is a bit excessive to your taste.

As you can see, being ethical requires constant analisys and the guts to avoid feeling offended when fellow humans notify you some headlongness you did not noticed in your own unconscious

[spywareonya 37,962]

6 hours ago, owlman76 said:

I think the problem over here is that recently we have been overrun by a certain group of people who are far too tolerant! Recently I watched a programme about Paedophiles in America, after serving their sentence, they still face a lot of restrictions, where they can live, who they can associate with etc, and in certain states, they even put up signs saying that a paedophile lives on a certain street, and that is the way it should be!

Sadly over here there are people who disagree with that, "they've done their time, paid their penalty, give them a chance", Sadly a great number of them go on to re-offend, causing more distress to innocent children! However, people seem more interested in protecting them, rather than victims or potential victims, and it is the same with the Muslim extremists.

I don't know how familiar you are with my country, but in London, we have a city park called Hyde Park, in this park we have a place called Speakers corner, anyone is allowed to stand up and make speeches about anything, and people do stop to listen, however, it is a flawed system. let's say a white Englishman stands up and starts to speak about the evil Muslims who are inhabiting our country, those who wish to cause harm to others, lets say he speaks out saying they should be removed back to their country of origin, or locked up, he will quickly feel the full might of the English law. On the other hand, we had a radical Muslim Cleric, he was allowed to spout his evil rhetoric for a number of years before action was taken against him, and he was actively calling for Muslims to rise up and attack the white "non believers"!

Sadly we have become a country where  the rights of any individual, no matter how evil they are, are protected regardless of cost to the majority, plus we now have a situation where people are frightened of speaking out against these individuals lest they be labelled as racist!

Not far from where I live, we have issues with young Black males who carry guns and shoot each other, I have a friend and her daughter is a police officer, she was tasked to deal with this so called 'black on black' gun crime, naturally this meant stopping young black males and searching them in an attempt to locate any weapons. The next thing she is accused of being a racist, because she is doing the very thing she has been told to do, stop and search young black males!

For gods sake, we are dealing with young black males who go around carrying illegal firearms and shooting each other! What would be the point if she was to go around stop searching, for example, young Chinese females? But this is the society that we are living in at the moment over here, the criminal has more rights than the victim. I understand that in your country you are allowed to protect yourself if someone should break into your home, not so over here, a man woke up to find 2 men with knives had broken into his home, a fight broke out and one of the burglars was stabbed with his own knife, he died of his injuries. The victim, then found himself in court on a murder charge! Now I'm very sorry, but if you break into my home, carrying weapons, and are obviously intent on doing me harm, then as far as I'm concerned, if you get killed then so what, if you hadn't broken in, it wouldn't have happened!

The United States does have its problems, and at times it does get criticised on the world stage for some of its actions, however, you do have it right on a lot of important issues, ironically although we coined the phrase, 'an Englishman's home is his castle' it would seem that the Americans are more keen on allowing a person to defend their 'castle', than we are over in  the United Kingdom.

God bless America.

Yes, the problem you expose is real. I have mercy more than tolerance, which is different, but indeed I understand your point. Being ALL-TOLERANT is a slogan devoid of far-sightedness. 

[spywareonya 37,962]

3 hours ago, owlman76 said:

Quite a well balanced post, one of the big things over here that annoys me is how certain organisations have been prepared to sacrifice our own countries things to avoid offending other religions/creeds that have chosen to make my country their home.

A couple of years ago a man was fined by the police for having a flag (the cross of St George) in the rear of his vehicle as it may incite race hatred! The fact that this flag is the national flag of England, and St George is our patron saint was deemed irrelavent, as was the fact it was St Georges day!

There are lots of people who think we should be wishing people "happy holidays" in December, rather than "Happy Christmas", even though we have celebrated Christmas for hundreds of years, despite this attempt to do away with our traditional things to avoid offending our migrant population, nothing is said when certain members of the Pakistani communities, whilst celebrating their festival of Eid, drive around the cities with full size Pakistani flags attached to their vehicles, amongst other things.

Recently a friend of mine came home from work and was chatting to his young son, it was approaching Easter time and he was asking the child what the'd been learning at school regarding the meaning of Easter, to his surprise the child replied "nothing"! He called the school to ask why his son was not being taught about Easter, as it is one of the main dates in the Christian calender. To his amazement he was informed it was because, "we are a multi-denominational school and don't want to offend non-Christians".

You can imagine how he felt when some months later his son came home from school and announced, "guess what dad, today we've been learning all about Divali,it's a Hindu religious festival", he then went on to enlighten his not unhappy father with the ins and outs of this particular religious festival!

How can it be wrong to promote a Christian festival in a Christian country, lest we offend non Christians, yet it's fine to promote other non Christian religious festivals, without a thought as to whether it offends Christians or not? 

Yes, things become ridiculous if tolerance becomes intolerant toward everything which simply is itself!