Any history lovers here?

[marking my territory 362]

I want to hear about your love of history! Any era! Any subject! 

Fashion, politics, war, weird phenomenons, religion, family history tell me about it! Whats one thing from the past you would bring back? I would probably bring back chamber pots and their everyday use.

 Whats one part of history you can talk about for hours? The wild west? Revolutionary France? I want to hear it all!😍

 

[glad1 2,834]

I'd love to go back to the era of early flight, not much more than a hundred years. There's something very appealing to me in being among the first to soar above the earth and see what's on the ground from a totally new perspective.

Then again, if I could only back fifty or so, I'd want to be one of the astronauts who first stepped on the moon. At least I've been fortunate enough to talk to one of them.

[Pisslover40 1,265]

14 minutes ago, glad1 said:

I'd love to go back to the era of early flight, not much more than a hundred years. There's something very appealing to me in being among the first to soar above the earth and see what's on the ground from a totally new perspective.

Then again, if I could only back fifty or so, I'd want to be one of the astronauts who first stepped on the moon. At least I've been fortunate enough to talk to one of them.

I'd go back to that first rocket launch sent the first man into space 

[niceguy1 42]

38 minutes ago, marking my territory said:

I want to hear about your love of history! Any era! Any subject! 

Fashion, politics, war, weird phenomenons, religion, family history tell me about it! Whats one thing from the past you would bring back? I would probably bring back chamber pots and their everyday use.

 Whats one part of history you can talk about for hours? The wild west? Revolutionary France? I want to hear it all!😍

 

If it's history related to peeing, I read a book several years ago about the French Revolution that commented at one point that when Marie Antoinette was being taken away to the guillotine from the place where she had been imprisoned, she stopped to pee in a corner of the courtyard before they led her away.  It was obviously in full view of everyone present for it to be recorded for posterity.  Apparently she didn't want to leave this world with a full bladder.  I don't know if she was just thinking about comfort in the moment, or if she didn't want her bladder releasing at the moment of execution in front of the crowd.  In another part of the book it stated that, before the revolution, the royal family was constantly surrounded by servants and members of the nobility in the palace.  Apparently even during their intimate marital moments there were always people within earshot in case the king or queen needed something.  So I assume they both would have been very comfortable peeing in the presence of others.

As far as something that I would like to bring back from history, I suppose for me it would be to go back to the time when I was growing up in the 1970s when undivided urinals and urinal troughs were commonplace everywhere.  I was too concerned about my privacy as a child so I never took advantage of the opportunity to use them.  Today the trend is to greater and greater privacy in public toilets so I feel like I missed out.

Edited March 1, 2023 by niceguy1

[marking my territory 362]

11 minutes ago, niceguy1 said:

If it's history related to peeing, I read a book several years ago about the French Revolution that commented at one point that when Marie Antoinette was being taken away to the guillotine from the place where she had been imprisoned, she stopped to pee in a corner of the courtyard before they led her away.  It was obviously in full view of everyone present for it to be recorded for posterity.  Apparently she didn't want to leave this world with a full bladder.  I don't know if she was just thinking about comfort in the moment, or if she didn't want her bladder releasing at the moment of execution in front of the crowd.  In another part of the book it stated that, before the revolution, the royal family was constantly surrounded by servants and members of the nobility in the palace.  Apparently even during their intimate marital moments there were always people within earshot in case the king or queen needed something.  So I assume they both would have been very comfortable peeing in the presence of others.

I didn't know about Marie Antoinette peeing before her execution, but I imagine thats fairly common for someone about to be executed.

Did you know that due to lack of bathrooms in Versailles it wasn't uncommon for servants to be seen urinating in the halls? And that some noble women were denied the bathroom while waiting on the queen? There are a few stories of some of the noble ladies having accidents, which I fond strange because of the prevalence of the bourdaloue at the time

[glad1 2,834]

2 minutes ago, marking my territory said:

I didn't know about Marie Antoinette peeing before her execution, but I imagine thats fairly common for someone about to be executed.

Did you know that due to lack of bathrooms in Versailles it wasn't uncommon for servants to be seen urinating in the halls? And that some noble women were denied the bathroom while waiting on the queen? There are a few stories of some of the noble ladies having accidents, which I fond strange because of the prevalence of the bourdaloue at the time

Some of the ones I've seen looked like they wouldn't be able to hold all that much. Can you imagine being so desperate that you overflowed one and your stream was still going strong? 

I suppose, back in the days before Big Gulps, Starbucks Trentas and two-liter water bottles, bladders were much smaller.

[Hightower 607]

1 hour ago, marking my territory said:

I want to hear about your love of history! Any era! Any subject! 

Fashion, politics, war, weird phenomenons, religion, family history tell me about it! Whats one thing from the past you would bring back? I would probably bring back chamber pots and their everyday use.

 Whats one part of history you can talk about for hours? The wild west? Revolutionary France? I want to hear it all!😍

 

I'm an archaeologist, so if you have anything to ask about that then feel free👍

[Adyguy6970 878]

I have a particular love of history, both for its own sake and because it helps us to better  understand the world we inhabit today.  Obviously the history of sanitation, and sometimes the lack thereof, is one of my interests.  

[niceguy1 42]

15 minutes ago, marking my territory said:

I didn't know about Marie Antoinette peeing before her execution, but I imagine thats fairly common for someone about to be executed.

Did you know that due to lack of bathrooms in Versailles it wasn't uncommon for servants to be seen urinating in the halls? And that some noble women were denied the bathroom while waiting on the queen? There are a few stories of some of the noble ladies having accidents, which I fond strange because of the prevalence of the bourdaloue at the time

The book with the anecdote about Marie Antoinette is about more than just the French Revolution. It discusses the last decade of the 18th century, focusing on America, France and Russia during this period.  It's called "The Great Upheaval: America and the Birth of the Modern World 1788 - 1800" by Jay Winik.  It was a pretty fascinating read. 

I had never heard of the bourdaloue, I had to Google that one.  But I know that before the mid 1800s and the advent of indoor plumbing, chamber pots or peeing outside were the only ways to get the job done.  So definitely a much greater tolerance of public urination than today.  It seems like the bourdaloue may have been used by women in a standing position.  I don't know if they normally excused themselves to find a private place to do it, or if the long dresses provided enough coverage to simply pee without leaving whatever group they happened to be in. 

In another book that discussed the French Enlightenment philosopher Jean-Jacques Rousseau, who lived during the same time period, it mentioned that he had some kind of deformity to his penis that made public urination difficult for him.  Apparently he was seen outside at a party of one of his patrons in the nobility and ending up peeing all down his leg due to the deformity.  It seemed to contribute to the generally negative attitude he was apparently known to have. 

[DoctorDoctor 1,391]

1 hour ago, glad1 said:

Some of the ones I've seen looked like they wouldn't be able to hold all that much. Can you imagine being so desperate that you overflowed one and your stream was still going strong? 

I suppose, back in the days before Big Gulps, Starbucks Trentas and two-liter water bottles, bladders were much smaller.

The older chamber pots and bourdaloues probably held enough, but their odd shape makes them seem small.  I doubt that bladders have changed that much in capacity.  Women's bladders may have been even larger back then, because of the lack of women's facilities and the need to hold until a socially acceptable place is found.

[marking my territory 362]

8 hours ago, niceguy1 said:

In another book that discussed the French Enlightenment philosopher Jean-Jacques Rousseau, who lived during the same time period, it mentioned that he had some kind of deformity to his penis that made public urination difficult for him.  Apparently he was seen outside at a party of one of his patrons in the nobility and ending up peeing all down his leg due to the deformity.  It seemed to contribute to the generally negative attitude he was apparently known to have. 

Perhaps a true medical case of a micropenis? Or maybe a tear in the opening of his urethra? Probably cause a very wild stream if it was but alas...we'll never know

[marking my territory 362]

7 hours ago, DoctorDoctor said:

The older chamber pots and bourdaloues probably held enough, but their odd shape makes them seem small.  I doubt that bladders have changed that much in capacity.  Women's bladders may have been even larger back then, because of the lack of women's facilities and the need to hold until a socially acceptable place is found.

Keeping in mind water wasn't as largely consumed as beer or wine. The alcohol encourages more urine output but I can't imagine they could drink watered down beer as much as today's modern woman nearly makes a challenge of drinking gallons 

[niceguy1 42]

10 hours ago, marking my territory said:

Perhaps a true medical case of a micropenis? Or maybe a tear in the opening of his urethra? Probably cause a very wild stream if it was but alas...we'll never know

It was a few years ago when I read this.  The author didn't give too much detail but he didn't say anything to make me think it was a micropenis.  I understood it to be some problem with the urethra or the tip of the penis that didn't allow the stream to come out neatly.  And it sounds like it wasn't a one-time occurrence, but something he struggled with throughout his life.  Obviously, there was no modern medical technology back then to correct the problem.

[marking my territory 362]

9 minutes ago, niceguy1 said:

It was a few years ago when I read this.  The author didn't give too much detail but he didn't say anything to make me think it was a micropenis.  I understood it to be some problem with the urethra or the tip of the penis that didn't allow the stream to come out neatly.  And it sounds like it wasn't a one-time occurrence, but something he struggled with throughout his life.  Obviously, there was no modern medical technology back then to correct the problem.

I bet its a very simple procedure now, how many times those in the past have been damned by ignorance. 

That being said, I would've liked to have lived in a time that was more accepting of public or non facilities based urination. Living in an era where women going commando wouldn't have been too bad either.

[niceguy1 42]

10 hours ago, Xanthous Gaze said:

Some time before 2010, I don't remember the year I was there...I was on Vacation in California. One of the old baseball stadiums had the piss troughs like the one you described. I can be an animal, but I will say... the piss sitting in that trough was beyond nasty brother. I think it might have been the Dodgers stadium. If that ball stadium hasn't been updated in all this time. You may be able to go there and have your nostalgia. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I've used plenty of troughs over the years as an adult.  In bars in college, and in gas stations, bus stations and markets when I lived in Mexico, and there are a few in parks where I live now.  I was just saying if I had used them starting in kindergarten it would have been more normalized for me and less likely to strike fear in me the first time I saw one in college lol.  I don't go to sports events too often but I know that is the best place to find undivided urinals and troughs, even today.  There is a convention center here in town that used to have open urinals but when it got renovated in the last decade they added dividers.  That is the general trend today.  In a nearby city, though, I went to a concert at a basketball arena a few years ago and there were shiny brand new urinals with no dividers there, so there is hope.  Obviously, regular maintenance is nice regardless of the type of facilities.  In Mexico especially there were sometimes some pretty nasty odors in the public bathrooms there. 

[niceguy1 42]

10 hours ago, marking my territory said:

I bet its a very simple procedure now, how many times those in the past have been damned by ignorance. 

That being said, I would've liked to have lived in a time that was more accepting of public or non facilities based urination. Living in an era where women going commando wouldn't have been too bad either.

I agree with you that it would be nice to be able to relieve oneself whenever and wherever, within reason, when in public without fear of legal repercussions or social disapproval.  Certainly that was the case most often in the past, at least for men.  I confess that before you mentioned the bourdaloue I had always assumed that women on long carriage rides would have urinated in the bushes at the side of the road.  Now I realize that it probably was more often done inside the carriage, at least for the upper class women.  Today, the US is too restrictive with public urination.  More openness is to be found in Europe, China and the third world.  At this point in my life I'm not able to just up and go there, but I still may try to at some point in the future. 

You did make me think of one experience I had in Mexico before I met my wife.  I was at the beach with a close male friend and two girls, one a Mexican and the other one a Canadian who was something like a short-term exchange student (I don't remember the exact arrangement) who was also a friend of the first girl.  It was a rustic beach without any facilities.  As we were walking back to the car, the Canadian girl announced loudly, "I have to pee!"  She then started talking aloud about where she should do it.  Then she said, "I think I'll do it here!"  I thought she was going to just drop into a squat and do it on the path, but then she seemed to change her mind and walked around behind this little building that was there.  I'm not sure what caused her change of heart but she seemed like the kind of person who was not averse to public urination whenever the opportunity presented itself.

I also didn't realize that women's underwear is a relatively new invention, becoming more commonplace in the mid 1800s from what I read.  For those of you who understand Spanish, there's a funny phrase they use in Mexico for "going commando".  When my wife didn't have any clean underwear to put on, she would say, "Ando directa".  That always seemed like a blunt, descriptive term to me!  But from what I understand, it's more common today than in the recent past, at least for younger women.  But I suppose it depends on the situation.

[marking my territory 362]

1 hour ago, niceguy1 said:

I agree with you that it would be nice to be able to relieve oneself whenever and wherever, within reason, when in public without fear of legal repercussions or social disapproval.  Certainly that was the case most often in the past, at least for men.  I confess that before you mentioned the bourdaloue I had always assumed that women on long carriage rides would have urinated in the bushes at the side of the road.  Now I realize that it probably was more often done inside the carriage, at least for the upper class women.  Today, the US is too restrictive with public urination.  More openness is to be found in Europe, China and the third world.  At this point in my life I'm not able to just up and go there, but I still may try to at some point in the future. 

I also didn't realize that women's underwear is a relatively new invention, becoming more commonplace in the mid 1800s from what I read.  For those of you who understand Spanish, there's a funny phrase they use in Mexico for "going commando".  When my wife didn't have any clean underwear to put on, she would say, "Ando directa".  That always seemed like a blunt, descriptive term to me!  But from what I understand, it's more common today than in the recent past, at least for younger women.  But I suppose it depends on the situation.

Even when the first female underwear (bloomers) were introduced they were more similar pantaloons than what we think of. Since the fashion throughout history usually has been long and multiple skirts for women, the first undies were open crotch as you can see, easy for any quick urge to be relieved.

Minus the modern day thong, thats essentially the design. I can understand why women always moved in groups and never stirred in rough areas if they could avoid it, I can imagine how vulnerable a woman would feel wandering alone without even a thin layer of cotton to protect your sex from rapists.

I'm curious how common for the common woman public urination would have been? Certainly it was looked down upon by the middle class, always striving to the sophistication of their "betters". I have to think the odd woman would've ducked into an alley if they could help it but for the most part only the most lost and downtrodden women would've been pissing in the gutters. Don't quote me on it though, just a guess.

Edited March 3, 2023 by marking my territory
Forgot the photo😅

[glad1 2,834]

6 hours ago, marking my territory said:

I'm curious how common for the common woman public urination would have been? Certainly it was looked down upon by the middle class, always striving to the sophistication of their "betters". I have to think the odd woman would've ducked into an alley if they could help it but for the most part only the most lost and downtrodden women would've been pissing in the gutters. Don't quote me on it though, just a guess.

I imagine both the lack of facilities and the awkwardness of the clothing would have discouraged most upper class women from travel and exploration. But, surely they're must have been a few whose curiosity got the better of them. I love to read their accounts of how they dealt with those times when they got caught short.

And, there were all those pioneer women who trekked across the country in search of new land. In the days before fast food restaurants, convenience stores and tourist rest areas, one has to wonder how they fared whenever nature called. Somehow, I suspect nature provided the answer.
 

[peebus10 140]

These open crotch bloomers are very convenient for peeing. In China it’s not uncommon to see kids wear them so they can just pee on the street. There’s a rare shot from the Josephine Mutzenbacher series (part 3)where she is demonstrating it’s also very useful for peeing standing up. 

[marking my territory 362]

30 minutes ago, MonsterKane46 said:

I enjoy the ancient history... especially the ancient Greece stuff.... all the God's of Olympus and the story of Troy especially...

I remember reading this one legend that said this one greek waterfall formed because Zeus came down from mount Olympus and relieved himself off the side of a cliff. 

Great natural sites always seem to attract men's interest in peeing. So many men piss off into the grand canyon, to mark, to conquer such a majestic place.

Edited March 3, 2023 by marking my territory
Pics!

[niceguy1 42]

10 hours ago, marking my territory said:

Even when the first female underwear (bloomers) were introduced they were more similar pantaloons than what we think of. Since the fashion throughout history usually has been long and multiple skirts for women, the first undies were open crotch as you can see, easy for any quick urge to be relieved.

Minus the modern day thong, thats essentially the design. I can understand why women always moved in groups and never stirred in rough areas if they could avoid it, I can imagine how vulnerable a woman would feel wandering alone without even a thin layer of cotton to protect your sex from rapists.

I'm curious how common for the common woman public urination would have been? Certainly it was looked down upon by the middle class, always striving to the sophistication of their "betters". I have to think the odd woman would've ducked into an alley if they could help it but for the most part only the most lost and downtrodden women would've been pissing in the gutters. Don't quote me on it though, just a guess.

I was aware of bloomers, but did not know that they were open crotch.  As I understand it, before underwear became common women would sometimes pee standing since nothing could be seen under their long dress and it would have been less obvious than squatting.  But with the open crotch bloomers as seen in the photo, I would imagine it could get a little messy when peeing from a standing position.  Do you think it would be more likely that a women would have to squat down to some degree to get the fabric to move out of the way?  Or would they reach a hand underneath to clear it away?  It seems like the previous underwear-less approach would have been simpler and more efficient.  I wonder why underwear was introduced in the first place.  Was it thought to be more modest, or more hygienic?  I can certainly understand your comments about women being concerned for their personal safety, but unfortunately, I'm not sure that underwear would have been much of a deterrent to a determined rapist.  

I had always thought of women's underwear from the past to be kind of conservative and frumpy but what you show in the photo is surprisingly attractive, even sexy.  

That is an interesting question about how common public urination would have been in the past.  I had always thought it would have been unavoidable.  From what I've read, it was pretty ubiquitous for the men, but in those male-dominated societies women were not expected to spend that much time outside of the home, so therefore the need for peeing in public would not normally arise.  Apparently, when the first public restrooms began to be built they were designed for men only.  Obviously we've come a long way since then, although there is the common complaint that women have that there are never enough toilets to serve all the women at large events, hence the long lines where women wait in discomfort for one to become available.  I think some progress has been made in that area, although I have to admit that in my younger days at a concert or bar it was a little exciting (and sometimes a little intimidating) to have a woman walk by on her way to a stall as I was peeing at the urinal. It would be a shame if that sort of thing went away. Although I understand that in France in some unisex public restrooms that is commonplace.

[marking my territory 362]

36 minutes ago, niceguy1 said:

I was aware of bloomers, but did not know that they were open crotch.  As I understand it, before underwear became common women would sometimes pee standing since nothing could be seen under their long dress and it would have been less obvious than squatting.  But with the open crotch bloomers as seen in the photo, I would imagine it could get a little messy when peeing from a standing position.  Do you think it would be more likely that a women would have to squat down to some degree to get the fabric to move out of the way?  Or would they reach a hand underneath to clear it away?  It seems like the previous underwear-less approach would have been simpler and more efficient.  I wonder why underwear was introduced in the first place.  Was it thought to be more modest, or more hygienic?  I can certainly understand your comments about women being concerned for their personal safety, but unfortunately, I'm not sure that underwear would have been much of a deterrent to a determined rapist.  

I had always thought of women's underwear from the past to be kind of conservative and frumpy but what you show in the photo is surprisingly attractive, even sexy.  

That is an interesting question about how common public urination would have been in the past.  I had always thought it would have been unavoidable.  From what I've read, it was pretty ubiquitous for the men, but in those male-dominated societies women were not expected to spend that much time outside of the home, so therefore the need for peeing in public would not normally arise.  Apparently, when the first public restrooms began to be built they were designed for men only.  Obviously we've come a long way since then, although there is the common complaint that women have that there are never enough toilets to serve all the women at large events, hence the long lines where women wait in discomfort for one to become available.  I think some progress has been made in that area, although I have to admit that in my younger days at a concert or bar it was a little exciting (and sometimes a little intimidating) to have a woman walk by on her way to a stall as I was peeing at the urinal. It would be a shame if that sort of thing went away. Although I understand that in France in some unisex public restrooms that is commonplace.

From what I know about long dresses with multiple layers and peeing as a woman, I would say it would've been a very messy affair to just pee standing. Generally urine falling fron standing height tends to splatter against the feet and calves, your legs must be spread very wide to ensure pee doesn't run down your leg and into your stockings/boots. I understand why so many petticoats were worn, to protect the dress from body oils/odors and urine. No, I have to imagine if a woman peed ideally it was at the very least into a bowl. It does make me wonder, perhaps handkerchiefs had use as a method for women to wipe themselves if they did find themselves in a jam?

Anatomically, squatting makes more sense than standing however if you have very long and multiple skirts your dress would be soaking up the piss if you were squatting. As for the introduction of women's underwear I believe modesty is the culprit although hygiene became a fringe benefit. When hoop skirts came into fashion it meant that your legs weren't protected by all the petticoats anymore. As you can see in this photo, without the bloomers if the woman falls or a strong wind etc. then she'll show the entire world everything, yes the bloomers have a large slit in them but its better than nothing.

Fun thing about the beginning of women's toilets, business owners were all for them, it meant they stayed out longer and spent more money. Before public access for women, a woman could only travel or be present in public as far as she could hold her bladder. It mostly shortened women's activities to just church, visiting each others homes, short trips out shopping etc. I imagine it was especially difficult for women who had been left nearly or incontinent from childbirth.

[DoctorDoctor 1,391]

8 hours ago, glad1 said:

I imagine both the lack of facilities and the awkwardness of the clothing would have discouraged most upper class women from travel and exploration. But, surely they're must have been a few whose curiosity got the better of them. I love to read their accounts of how they dealt with those times when they got caught short.

And, there were all those pioneer women who trekked across the country in search of new land. In the days before fast food restaurants, convenience stores and tourist rest areas, one has to wonder how they fared whenever nature called. Somehow, I suspect nature provided the answer.
 

Before passing away, my grandparents told many stories of chamber pots.  Until indoor plumbing was installed, when families were at home after nightfall or in inclement weather (or probably when women were wearing facy clothing), just about all urination took place into chamberpots (which were stored in the bedroom).  Husband and wife openly used them in front or each other, or perhaps behind a fabric privacy screen in more upperclass homes.  Children all used them in front of each other in shared bedrooms.  They were emptied in the morning into the outhouse (privy) and splash-rinsed outdoors with a bucket of well water before being put under the beds.  There was a special bucket with a tight fitting lid for emergency #2 at night, which my grandparents refered to as a "thunder bucket".

There were small chamberpots (just big enough for a single urination) kept in horse-drawn carriages with handles that were used by women to place under their skirts while traveling.  The contents of which were immediately emptied before the carriage proceeded.

My grandmother told of me having to leave formal events to return home desperate to pee because there weren't women's toilets available.  She told me that normally, the women of the hosting house were expected to provide a women-only room ("powder room") with an empty chamberpot or two for use during the event, but most women would try to hold their bladders anyway.  Men would go off to pee behind the carriage.

[Euro 346]

If you are into historical sexy lingerie that is Pee friendly.... ?.. Which I am 🙂

A post or two here further down the thread...

 

If you like a good book with lovely historical pics this is V good

Link to an abstract from the book

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=gPtwQgAACAAJ&source=gbs_book_other_versions

Enjoy 🙂

Edited March 5, 2023 by Euro
Update & link

[Euro 346]

6 hours ago, marking my territory said:

No, I have to imagine if a woman peed ideally it was at the very least into a bowl.

perhaps of interest.... some more historical interest follows the initial post

 

Us humans are really into the pee and sex thing for loads of many+  years