20th April 2014: Should The Death Penalty Ever Be Used?

[Admin 14,788]

A more serious question for you all to consider today. Do you believe that the death penalty should ever be used for a crime? Whilst many may argue that if you begin killing people (e.g. murderers), you're just as bad as them, surely they no longer deserve to live if they have taken several innocent lives?

Get thinking and get answering! I look forward to your responses. :wink:

[steve25805 126,015]

I firmly oppose the death penalty. No human justice system is ever going to be infallible. Innocent people do get wrongly convicted on a fairly regular basis. Yes, most people convicted are as guilty as hell, but the lives of the minority who are not do matter to me.

If someone has been wrongly convicted of a terrible crime which they in fact did not do, and a couple of decades later it emerges that they were innocent all along, then they can at least be released to enjoy the rest of their lives as free men and women, and be financially compensated for the 20 wasted years behind bars. But you cannot release or compensate a corpse!

I'm afraid that - in my view - keeping some of the worst scumbags alive and adequately housed and fed is the unfortunate price that any decent society ought to pay to ensure that we never execute the innocent. I do not believe that saving taxpyers' money is an adequate justification here. Higher morals are involved. I do not accept the execution of innocents as acceptable collateral damage to ensure the swift demise of the guilty. An innocent man's right to life trumps a guilty man's deserving of death, in my view.

Yes, lock the worst scumbags up for the rest of their lives. Yes, make sure that prison is no holiday camp. The innocent after all can be released once their innocence becomes clear, and compensated for any harsh living environment. But no to the death penalty.

[weteric 1,365]

I used to be a staunch opponent of the death penalty. Former FBI profiler Robert Resler wrote a book entitled "Whoever fights monsters" and in it he argued it is pointless. It does not deter anyone. It does not save money, as if we claim to be civilised we must allow every option of appeal. He gives the example of Ted Bundy. His appeal process cost the US tax payer in excess USD 12m. He could have been incarcerated for life for a fraction of that. And in the case of serial killers the death penalty removes the possibility of studing yhe offender to learn how to catch other offenders

however, if it was my child, I would want their killer dead.

[steve25805 126,015]

however, if it was my child, I would want their killer dead.

Oh of course that is a natural reaction. Wholly understandable. I can from that perspective understand how the execution of the offender could actually bring some form of closure to the angry and grieving parent, and in some small way help. And to be frank, the feelings of the parents are far more important to me than the life of the piece of scum who killed their kid. Like most of us, if one of my nearest and dearest were killed, I'd end up doing serious prison time myself if I ever got my hands on the culprit, who I'd ensure never survived the encounter.

But we have the perrenial problem of fallible justice systems. Keeping the scum alive is simply the moral price we all have to pay to ensure that we ourselves as a people never have the deaths of innocents on our hands. This is a very high price indeed for grieving parents who have seen their child killed. But the crux of the matter is this - is the collateral damage of a few innocent people being executed - with all the pain this involves for their families - a price worth paying to ease the pain of such grieving parents?

[AngelGirl 92]

I am firmly opposed to the death penalty. There have been cases where people have been wrongly accused and incarcerated, sometimes for 20 or 30 years, before they are proven innocent and freed. Yes, our justice system is fallible, and yes it would be horrible to be wrongly jailed for so long a time, but can you imagine then finding out you were sentenced to death... For a crime you didn't commit? Meanwhile, the real culprit is out there roaming the streets and a danger to the community, town, etc. Is it okay to allow the death penalty because these criminals are costing us all money to keep alive and support, while the possibility of condemning an innocent man is still present? Absolutely not.

I agree it would be impossibly hard to be the parent, friend, family member, etc., of a victim of a horrible crime, especially rape, violent murders or torture, but is seeing the person accused of the crime sentenced to death going to bring back your loved one? I think not. Justice may be served, and truthfully, if there was a way to guarantee you'd never give the death penalty to the wrong person, some crimes definitely warrant it.

I've thought a lot about this actually, and the best idea I can come up with is to find some way for all these violent criminals to be taken to... Somewhere. An isolated island perhaps? One with no way off or out, and they could live there. Instead of paying for them year after year, taxpayers could contribute a little to building houses, starting farms, etc., and the goal would be to make this place as self-sufficient as possible. An impossible idea, perhaps, but would be a good solution.

[Lickher2 291]

I am an absolute believer in the death sentence, . . . . . . . .but I have absolutely NO faith whatsoever in the sleaze-all system. . .er legal system to find the (alleged) guilty party I think the only way forward is to start executing Banksters and various other Zionist pigs . . . . and work our way down the tree until we find honest people, only then can we start to rebuild The primary reason that people are wrongly convicted is because the "system" is corrupt. Corruption starts at the top and flows down, . . it does not start at the bottom and go up. At the top of their system is Private Banking . . . . .unequivocally the most corrupt and evil institution the world has ever known

[steve25805 126,015]

I used to be utterly opposed to the death penalty, but have been wavering. For one thing I have recently looked into some of the most horrific crimes imaginable, and some of what I have found is so twisted it's almost unbelievable. Here are just seven shocking examples. There are many more......

1)Four youngsters aged 18 to early 20s - two girls and two guys - who thought it fun to lure two guys back to one of the girl's houses where they were robbed and strangled. One of the girls who had fantasies about sex with dead people then had three way sex with her two male accomplices on top of the bodies.

2)Two women and several guys kidnap and brutally torture a 16 year old girl for a week, burning her with cigarettes, rubbing her skin off with wire brushes, yanking her teeth out with pliers and ultimately dousing her in petrol and setting her alight, the female ringleader laughing gleefully and revelling in her sadism throughout.

3)A mother and her new boyfriend hang her three year old boy upside down by his feet and beat him to death, laughing at his agonised squirming whilst doing so, because they find it funny. Another woman present and tending her own kid does nothing and looks on, in some accounts finding it funny too.

4)A couple beat and torture the mother's 8 year old son to death over a period of several months, breaking his ribs, smashing his teeth, beating him with bats and belt buckles as well as fists. He is burned with cigarettes regularly, systematically starved in a house awash with food, repeatedly burned with pepper spray, and forced to eat rotten spinach and cat shit on a regular basis. If he vomits he is forced to eat that too. BB gun pellets are also fired at him, particularly at his private parts. Eventually he recieves a beating so severe it kills him. The autopsy revealed that there was a BB gun pellet embedded in his ball sack, and another in his lungs.

5)A mother abandons her baby in a cold room for several weeks so she can go out and party, letting it starve to death.

6)Two men kidnap a 19 year old girl who'd been taking a stand against sex slavery which the guys were involved in. They tie her to a table where one of them slowly cuts her feet off with a saw as the other films it along with her agonised screams, after which they finish her off. The film iss produced purely to show others whom they wish to intimidate into backing off.

7)A 16 year old girl lures her 12 year old neighbour to a spot where she strangles her, just to see what it is like to kill someone, before burying her in a shallow grave. She then confides to her diary, "I just killed someone. It was kind of enjoyable. Lol"

Cases of depravity on such a scale as this has pushed me over a tipping point. These kind of monsters don't deserve to breathe and are a waste of good oxygen. That they still live after what they did is an affront to humanity. Put them down like the vermin they are - hang them, electrocute them, put a fucking bullet in their brains, I don't care. No one deserves to live after depravity such as that.

[likesToLick 10,216]

I am strongly opposed to the death penalty. Murder is murder. Allowing the government to murder people is just wrong. It's not very smart either. Politicians love a good hanging at election time. It helps to get them votes.

It is better to keep a thousand vile scum in prison for years than to execute one innocent person. It's the price you pay to live in a decent society.

The legal system makes mistakes. Politicians also like to corrupt the legal system. I will never support giving such people the power to kill citizens.

[F.W 5,734]

I think the death penalty should count for even quite small crimes,that affect ordinary people,like vandals who wreck public amenties such as war memorials,bus shelters even.Worthless scum should be put down..No-one makes anyone behave like this,they CHOOSE to act like scum,let them die like scum.And murder and terrorism of course.Its not about retaliation,its about the world been rid of such hideous people for good!

[steve25805 126,015]

I think the death penalty should count for even quite small crimes,that affect ordinary people,like vandals who wreck public amenties such as war memorials,bus shelters even.

That's way too extreme. Execution for vandalising a bus shelter or war memorial? Yeah we both know it's a shitty thing to do and those who do it deserve to be punished for it. But with their lives in the same way as the sickest scum I have given examples of above? How can the two even be equated?

An important tenet of justice is punishment that fits the crime. Any death penalty should only ever apply to the very worst crimes committed.

[F.W 5,734]

That's way too extreme. Execution for vandalising a bus shelter or war memorial? Yeah we both know it's a shitty thing to do and those who do it deserve to be punished for it. But with their lives in the same way as the sickest scum I have given examples of above? How can the two even be equated?

An important tenet of justice is punishment that fits the crime. Any death penalty should only ever apply to the very worst crimes committed.

I guess so,but often these morons walk away with nothing but a cheap fine.Its time that hard time was given to idiots.And death for serious crimes as well..In UK we have people,sadly,who see war memorials either as a convienient urinal,or as scrap metal value,and strip the brass plaques off them.I would burn these people alive myself to be honest..

[steve25805 126,015]

I guess so,but often these morons walk away with nothing but a cheap fine.Its time that hard time was given to idiots.And death for serious crimes as well..In UK we have people,sadly,who see war memorials either as a convienient urinal,or as scrap metal value,and strip the brass plaques off them.I would burn these people alive myself to be honest..

Oh I agree that - and not just for this either but for a whole rage of crimes - punishments are often pathetic.

Recently in Britain - you probably heard about it too - was the case of a mother who told her kids aged between 3 and 14 that she was nipping down to the supermarket, when in fact she had jetted off to Australia for six weeks to spend time with her online boyfriend. Her kids, worried sick after seveal hours contacted their grandparents who contacted the authorities. The anguish those kids must have felt until the mother was located must have been terrible. The authorities, relatives and her own kids contacted her via social media and urged her tio return at once. She simply closed it all down so she could nor be contacted and only returned when her six weeks were up, whereupon she was promptly arrested and charged.

But all she recieved was a 6 month suspended sentence - in other words no punishment at all unless she does it again. A failure to impose fitting sentences really pisses people off, and makes them believe - often with good reason - that our judges live on a different planet.

[Bill Thane 365]

Steve, judges are actually told that women are disadvantaged and their sentences must reflect this, hence absurdly lenient punishments for female offenders. Your list of crimes from Sunday sickens me - I too am gravitating towards the death penalty. Only in cases of undeniable proof and terrible depravity, but certainly an option.

[steve25805 126,015]

Steve, judges are actually told that women are disadvantaged and their sentences must reflect this, hence absurdly lenient punishments for female offenders. Your list of crimes from Sunday sickens me - I too am gravitating towards the death penalty. Only in cases of undeniable proof and terrible depravity, but certainly an option.

And have you ever noticed that when a grown woman does something like have sex with a 12 year old boy, it is treated vastly less harshly than when a grown man has sex with a 12 year old girl? Yet the crime is exactly the same!!

[Bill Thane 365]

And have you ever noticed that when a grown woman does something like have sex with a 12 year old boy, it is treated vastly less harshly than when a grown man has sex with a 12 year old girl? Yet the crime is exactly the same!!

Yeah... There's a lot of people, of both genders, who treat women as inferior by assuming that they cannot be as responsable as men. It's unfortunate that some aspects of feminism have begun to degrade women in this way, yet disagreeing with such policies is somehow misogynistic. A real shame.

[spywareonya 37,961]

On ‎4‎/‎17‎/‎2014 at 9:50 PM, Admin said:

A more serious question for you all to consider today. Do you believe that the death penalty should ever be used for a crime? Whilst many may argue that if you begin killing people (e.g. murderers), you're just as bad as them, surely they no longer deserve to live if they have taken several innocent lives?

Get thinking and get answering! I look forward to your responses. 😉

 

 

 

I am against Death penalty for a matter of civilization

We should not react according to the entity of the crime but according to the kind of humans we want to be

 

 

That said, sometimes some humans (like Hitler or Saddam Hussein) must fall as a matter of political necessity for the world to go on

 

 

 

On a last stand, and boy if this is complicated, we have a difficult relationship with vengeance. Because this calls the hardest facet of my Path, which is terribly difficult to explain

 

We Witches do not believe in "deserving" a punishment. We are firmly convinced that free will doesn't work they way people think, if you are healthy there is no need for "free will between good and evil", what is healthy will be clear before your understanding and you will look for achieving it, if you are unhealthy, then you already lost any free will because NOBODY is evil unless brainwashed by unconscious problems, this doesn't make you innocent as actions can be judged anyway, but changes our interpretation about intentionality. To us all that act badly are just "morons". People with problems. Even absurdily evil people are just morons so encrusted that they festered and made a new step into their worsening, becoming from stupid, actually evil.

 

This doesn't mean that to us a serial killer is a proxy moved by dementia like his own illness telekinetically controls his hand butchering people: he is fully aware of what he does, he plans it and takes pleasure from it. But it's like he wasn't really there.

 

Have you guys ever been SO drunk you actually puke when you try to REMEMBER YOUR NAME?

It's like being a completely different person: you can hear spiders climbing walls, you notice eveything, you can even desire and plan stuff, but you are not yourself, it's called delirium tremens, it's like hypnosys

To psychiatrists, it's called abscission. Rational madness, freezing and nullifying empathy, leaving only violence. But it's not "evil free will". It's an illness.

 

There is one and only free will people have: realize they made a mistake, realize their mind doesn't work in a healthy way, and seek therapy. Yet, even in that case, most will fail not by "evil free will" but by fear, shame, embarass.

 

It is possible to redeem everybody, theorically speaking. It is a scientific truth, everybody can be cured… if we had all the world to gather to love this very person. And Others? What would happen to all other sinners while the Whole world focus on just one?

Thus it CANNOT be done. Everyone can be saved in theory, but we have NOT the power to achieve it.

 

And then… TRIAGE

 

 

Some humans… worse than Others… will be just left in jail and cured only if they actually ask for it, instead of trying to cure everybody.

 

Some Others… even worse… Government hasn't the right to kill them, it's not a fair fight… but a woman whose son has been raped and killed… according to our tenets she must first go Beyond the facet of vengeance stirred by impotence, as impotence implies EGO and we Witches train to insanity (literally) to abandon it… but after that… the pure unjustice will remain… and if this guilty refuses to repent… he can be handled to this mother… to achieve any vengeance she deemed fitting

(This was also the way human sacrifices were picked, anthropologically speaking)

We won't believe he "deserves" it

Nobody "deserves" punishment in itself

It's OUR FAULT if we do not possess the power to cure everybody

 

But some sins authorize Revenge on the behalf of the wronged one, in our eyes

It's not "right"

It's "fitting"

Usually Fittingness must inspire and stick to what is Right

In some very rare cases the two just intermix yet are not the same thing

 

Edited March 31, 2019 by spywareonya
Typos are not acceptable in such an important post

[2prnot2p 1,066]

I used to favor the death penalty, but now I'm opposed to it.  It's not really punishment and they live forever on death row before they're executed.  It's also far more expensive to house an inmate on death row than in the general population of the prison.  Remaining behind bars for life is far worse than death.  Prison is a horrible place to live.  Plus, there is always an outside chance that an innocent man is executed.  It has happened and DNA has led to some innocent prisoners being released.  For these reasons, I'm against it. 

[steve25805 126,015]

I oppose the death penalty.

But I also sometimes read up on heinous crimes. Some of these so shock and sicken me that my opposition to the death penalty wavers. I experience an emotional reaction in wanting the evil scum responsible to die, something fitting yet which also sates a desire for revenge.

Reading back through this thread has been fascinating as I started out opposing the death penalty, but then seriously wavered almost to the point of demanding it after reading up on some uniquely appalling crimes. Now - after much time has passed and I haven't encountered anything truly horrific for a while - those emotional responses to extreme depravity have dissipated and I am back to being rational again.

The death penalty is wrong for all the reasons I started out with in this thread.