Is the Loch Ness monster real?

[steve25805 126,021]

Time for another question of the week, this one inspired by a story written by @spywareonya

Is the Loch Ness monster real?

Personally, I have an open mind. No one has found anything using sonar, but if it exists it must be very good at hiding. What do others think?

[spywareonya 37,961]

7 hours ago, steve25805 said:

Time for another question of the week, this one inspired by a story written by @spywareonya

Is the Loch Ness monster real?

Personally, I have an open mind. No one has found anything using sonar, but if it exists it must be very good at hiding. What do others think?

As stated in the very story Steve hinted about, I love to believe it's real, but proofs are against

My personal belief (but it's not Witch Lore so I have no certainties) is that it is real, but doesn't live there

I am convinced there are, like many hypothized, deep-crust tunnels linking the Loch to the sea, and the monster uses the Loch just like a lagoon where to lay eggs

I also do not believe in any way that it can get out of the water, since the description given by the first man that saw it in the 16th Century was EXACTLY that of an Elasmosaurus, a water dinosaur with a long neck, yet unable to lift it high like many child-like illustrations wrongly describe

Its relatively small body (10 feet) needed little food, and the long neck was used to lay on the sea bottom, and move it around like you swing a scythe, cathing fishes in the murky waters, it allowed mobility of the head to catch fishes without moving the body, it could NOT get up high like you see in many hoax images

 

Complexively, it could reach up to 40 feet from tail to nose, but it was very light compared to the size, and able to reach great depths

 

My personal belief is that some dinosaurs just survived. Latimaera Caelumnaei is a proto-fish that was considered extinct almost half a BILLION years ago, and was fished in the Pacific Ocean some years ago

 

The Yucatan Impact that destroyed dinosaurs had worse effects on water creatures than earth ones, for a long list of reasons: if something that was considered already extinct BEFORE THE DINOSAURS APPEARED managed to survive their demise, then anything could have had, if its feeding standards met not impossibility

and Elasmosaurus could be perfectly at ease in the North Atlantic

[speedy3471 10,655]

I also belive there must be tunnels from the loch to the open sea. Just because it hasn't been seen in awhile doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't excist

[spywareonya 37,961]

20 minutes ago, speedy3471 said:

it hasn't been seen in awhile

Last sighting had been last august!!!

A woman driving by the Loch at night in a full moon night stopped a car for a smoke (I am quite sure it was for a PISS aahaahahahah but being a prudish english girl she changed the story ahahahaah), it was very bright, and all of a sudden she heard a strong noise and saw something enormous moving water

Nothing clearly seen, she never claimed so, but it's impressing anyway

[F.W 5,734]

I think not.

If there was a population of "monsters",and we presume they are air breathing,they would have to surface pretty regularly,certainly several times an hour,and would be seen quite easily and regularly.Also,if we presume they are reptilian,they would have to find somewhere on the shore to lay their eggs like crocodiles today.Then again,nests would be easily found,as the adults crawled out to tend to them.

I believe there are still quite large species to be discovered,20 years ago in Vietnam,the Vu Quang Ox,a kind of wild goat was found..In Africa,the Kipunji,an unknown type of large monkey was found in Tanzania about 10 years ago,but considering how much Loch Ness is monitored and watched,yet never is seen any evidence of large "monster" like marine reptiles,which would be quite obvious if they were there.

Edited April 18, 2019 by F.W

[speedy3471 10,655]

O wow. I wasn't aware that there was a recent sighting 

[F.W 5,734]

This is the science of Cryptozoology.

In the 70s,a guy was looking for Mokele-Mbembe.This was supposedly a "Dinosaur" that was living in the Congo jungle.He found no trace of this presumably 50 foot long,30 ton beast,apart from some droppings and broken branches here and there.The legend had been known for hundred years by explorers talking to local tribes people etc.

He decided to try the local tribespeople,who claimed they saw this Mokele Mbembe regularly when hunting.Upon showing them illustrations of Dinosaurs,they had no idea what they were.Because they described it as having 2 horns,he was thinking along the Triceratops type,horned Dinosaurs etc...despite no fossils of these had been found in Africa.

He was baffled by how they couldnt recognise any of the Dinosaurs.Obviously,living in the jungle,these people had never heard of Dinosaurs.Then apparently,one tribesman found his guide to African animals,and was pointing excitedly,and shouting "Mokele-Mbembe,Mokele-Mbembe!"..Upon looking,he saw they were pointing at a picture of a Rhinoceros.

Mokele-Mbembe,was nothing more than a jungle dwelling Rhino.Which are more a plains animal,but more likely than a damn Triceratops.

To me,any description of a large grey animal,in the jungle,is Elephant or Rhino.A pity perhaps it wasnt a Dinosaur.

This illustrates how its easy to believe what your heart WANTS you to believe,rather than your brain.

[Paulypeeps 5,287]

If bloody great big trees (Wollemi Pine) can exist out in the open in Australia for a few hundred years without anyone noticing them until 1994 then there is every chance of something big hiding at the bottom of a deep loch.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Paulypeeps

[speedy3471 10,655]

10 minutes ago, Paulypeeps said:

If bloody great big trees (Wollemi Pine) can exist out in the open in Australia for a few hundred years without anyone noticing them until 1996 then there is every chance of something big hiding at the bottom of a deep loch.

Absolutely they can. We know more about space then the depths of the oceans. Look how many species of fish thought tonbe extinct were found to be alive

[F.W 5,734]

Trees of course dont need to lay eggs or catch prey.Also,Australia itself is largely remote and undiscovered in parts,Loch Ness is monitored 24/7 almost,and has thousands of visitors every day.

If tomorrow,somewhere on this earth,a land of prehistoric animals was discovered i would be first in the queue to get there,but sadly those magnificent beasts are long gone.

[chubbybirb999 1,560]

I would love to say yes it does exist! Simply because I’m Scottish and I always remember visiting Loch Ness on long drives when my family and I got away on holiday. I always insisted I wanted to see Nessie and would get quite upset when she didn’t show for me! 

Bear in mind, I was about 7 at the time! 

[spywareonya 37,961]

@speedy3471

@Paulypeeps

@steve25805

@F.W

 

I prefer to mention than to quote, imagine I just quote all of your posts since I read them carefully anyway

 

 

Last sighting was indeed in august 2018, do not know the exact day but there was full moon so it is easy to be checked

For the surfacing and egg stuff said by Fanny, Elasmsoaurus did not need to surface, just stretch their necks up in the water toward the surface, according to a long study on the microvariations of bones density scientists concluded it was its habit to just make his nostrils to hit the surface and then dive again, able to hold breath, likely for lots of time like modern spermwhales

For the eggs, most scientists studying some similarities to known pregnant specimen of similar dinosaurs remained locked in mud waves, came up to the conclusion that either it birthed live youngs or lied eggs in the water

 

A much harder attack against it is feeding chances: if the Loch does NOT have tunnels allowing Nessie to live in the ocean, then 100% sure it doesnt exist

But feeding is the only problem. If the Loch have such tunnels like many geologists seem to believe, Nessie could either be a hoax, but would have got NO ACTUAL impossiblity to exist

 

 

For the Mokele Mbembe, thing is more complicated and I hoped nobody summoned  the matter, because what was divulged is only the 5% of the story, and its existence is ten times MORE likely than Nessie, not to say it's sure but VERY likely

First of all the size of the Mokele Mbembe was completely exaggerated: the fossils talked of a reptile the size of a Komodo dragon, so very thin yet muscular and no longer than 20 feet, included a very very small body and long tails and neck, making it to weight not even up to a single ton, 2 to the most, but unlikely

 

Every paleontologist know that such a dward kind of herbivore existed in the Congo regions and also knew its alimentary habit, because plants DID evolve but not that much, some Congo regions had been completely untouched by Time, not to say by the Yucatan Impact

 

and natives describing Mokele Mbembe feeding habits PERFECTLY described what scientists alone knew this dwarf dinosaur used to eat

Its shape, it's feeding standards, its geographical location, all coincides

A creature that size (just a big Iguana) would have had no problem in surviving the Yucatan extinction, and the similarities between stories of Mokele Mbembe and the dwarf dinosaur living exactly there are too stunning to be ignored

 

While I love to believe that Nessie is real, I am sure gun to the head that Mokele Mbembe IS

[F.W 5,734]

The Dinosaurs became extinct because they were unable to survive any changes to their environment.They had evolved in a fairly stable phase in geology.Then suddenly the earth became more volcanic,and a meteor strike pushed them over the edge.I doubt if any survived for very long at all a few months perhaps after the impact.First to go would be the herbivores,their diet burned or no new growth,then the predators would have a field day-for a while,eating all the dead herbivores..Then their food would be gone eventually..Then cannibalism would have occured,then starvation.

Crocodiles,being less specialised,could live in the murky swamps,feasting on dead dinosaurs,and any fish they could find.Our tiny mammalian ancestors would be nipping bits of meat from the huge bones,living in burrows,Birds would simply fly around finding unaffected areas,and also nipping meat from corpses.

But the idea that only 1 individual,or could survive and for 65 million years is just silly.Also,i think Loch Ness,was formed NOT during the Cretaceous,but after the last Ice Age.NO reptile could survive through the Ice Age.Even warm blooded creatures had to move away.

I live in hope...

[F.W 5,734]

Of course,live birth WAS known in the Icthyosaurs,and some sharks have live young.So its possible,that Plesiosaurs did the same.But there would HAVE to be a large population to be sustainable,and they would be seen very often.

Even if it was Whales,they would be seen often,surfacing etc.

 

[spywareonya 37,961]

@F.W

I sincerily agree with the 99% of the things you said

The only narrow escapes I found (unless I would plainly NOT believe) are that IF and I again say IF tunnels exist linking the Loch to the ocean, then it's likely that the population lives in the ocean and gets there just seldom, likely to spawn

For the oceans fall of temperature, some areas in the North Atlantic remained salty and warm, even before the Birth of the modern Gulf Stream

 

For the Mokele Mbembe, equatorial regions were much less hit by the climatic change, many plants are a proof that humidity and temperature in Congo remained LESS (not zero, uh, just less) modified during Ice Age

Enough stabile to allow the survival of little creatures like the Mokele Mbembe

 

I know these are narrow escapes, but enough to hope...

[F.W 5,734]

I really wish there were still Dinosaurs,real ones that had survived and even evolved into new species by now.But no.I think actually,the Plesiosaurs were not strictly  Dinosaurs.Only land animals were dinosaurs.Something to do with the type of skull,and hip socket.Which they dont have.

[spywareonya 37,961]

11 minutes ago, F.W said:

I really wish there were still Dinosaurs,real ones that had survived and even evolved into new species by now.But no.I think actually,the Plesiosaurs were not strictly  Dinosaurs.Only land animals were dinosaurs.Something to do with the type of skull,and hip socket.Which they dont have.

I had been blatantly simplyfying

Plesiosaurs were NOT dinosaurs, it's like you say

Over-simplification by me, very un-scientifical from my side

My bad, sorry

 

For the hope… I still keep it up!!!

[Scot_Lover 1,876]

Loch Ness is a freshwater loch, there are no tunnels to the outside ocean. The Loch is 16 meters above sea level, it looks black and murky due to the high peat content dissolved in the water. If there is something there, it has to survive in a freshwater environment, which makes it even more legendary.

Even so, when you're standing on the shore of Loch Ness, on a bitterly cold day, with the freezing wind sawing you in half, you can still believe in the possibility that something strange can live there.

 

 

[2prnot2p 1,066]

@F.W

Scientists now believe that all birds are descendants of the dinosaurs.  They also believe that crocodiles and sharks lived during the time of the dinosaurs and have remained relatively unchanged since then.

As for the Loch Ness Monster, I don't believe there's anything there.  All of the photos have been deemed to be frauds.  But, if the myth brings money to Scotland, what the hell!  LOL! 

[spywareonya 37,961]

41 minutes ago, Scot_Lover said:

freshwater

Its depth got a peculiar amount of chemicals similar to sea water, that is what led some to believe in the existence of those tunnels

I think in 200 millions years a living being could adapt...

Edited April 18, 2019 by spywareonya

[Scot_Lover 1,876]

Freshwater, contaminated with peat particles, tastes like coal. Loch Ness holds more water than all of the English and Wales lakes combined. Almost all of the Scottish Lochs and Lochans are freshwater.

[spywareonya 37,961]

25 minutes ago, Scot_Lover said:

Freshwater, contaminated with peat particles, tastes like coal. Loch Ness holds more water than all of the English and Wales lakes combined. Almost all of the Scottish Lochs and Lochans are freshwater.

Yes yes, MY BAD, I can end up being headlong and oversimplifying, is MY fault

But I am in contact with a group of Nessie-believers-scientists and they say that in the depths the composition is really peculiar, worthy of strange hypothesys...

 

Elasmosaurus had never been known to appreciate fresh-water, but some skeleton had been found near the point where some big rivers ended up into the ocean… 

We are just speculating anyway!!!

[steve25805 126,021]

7 hours ago, F.W said:

I think not.

If there was a population of "monsters",and we presume they are air breathing,they would have to surface pretty regularly,certainly several times an hour,and would be seen quite easily and regularly.Also,if we presume they are reptilian,they would have to find somewhere on the shore to lay their eggs like crocodiles today.Then again,nests would be easily found,as the adults crawled out to tend to them.

I believe there are still quite large species to be discovered,20 years ago in Vietnam,the Vu Quang Ox,a kind of wild goat was found..In Africa,the Kipunji,an unknown type of large monkey was found in Tanzania about 10 years ago,but considering how much Loch Ness is monitored and watched,yet never is seen any evidence of large "monster" like marine reptiles,which would be quite obvious if they were there.

It is difficult to argue with the logic of that.

[steve25805 126,021]

I would like to believe in the existence of Nessie, but evidence and logic argue against it.

I am however - to pursue a similar digression - rather more inclined to believe that there might be something tangible behind alleged sightings of Yetis. Am not totally convinced, the jury is still out. But it strikes me as possible that there could be a species of intensely shy great ape, that may or may not be a fellow hominin. If it had much intelligence and lived in remote areas it could possibly remain mostly hidden.

[spywareonya 37,961]

11 hours ago, steve25805 said:

I would like to believe in the existence of Nessie, but evidence and logic argue against it.

I am however - to pursue a similar digression - rather more inclined to believe that there might be something tangible behind alleged sightings of Yetis. Am not totally convinced, the jury is still out. But it strikes me as possible that there could be a species of intensely shy great ape, that may or may not be a fellow hominin. If it had much intelligence and lived in remote areas it could possibly remain mostly hidden.

Before the great human extinction of 70 000 years ago, a primitive and massive kind of Neanderthal lived there, it's no strange to me that it could have simply survived!!!

For Nessie, I still think it could be real!!!

As said, maybe Nessie doesn't live there, and comes only for spawning, and happily lives in the ocean