Are We Alone in the Universe?

[2prnot2p 1,066]

 

[spywareonya 37,961]

1 This kind of thread can end up in a DEBATE-like attitude

2 I actually believe in Conspiracy Theories but dunno why, I never feel like talking about them, nor explaining mines, nor listening to others' ones

3 I absolutely cannot divulge the sources that brought me to believe what I believe

 

So I'll just answer because this thread is fascinating, and THEN leave it to others

 

Are we alone in the universe?

If you ask me, NO, we aren't. Absolutely. Not only we are not alone in the universe, we aren't even alone on Earth.

Goodbye!!!

[steve25805 126,021]

I very much doubt that we are alone. The universe is so vast that this seems statistically unlikely. I also tend to believe that the universe is so configured that life will tend to develop naturally wherever the conditions are suitable for it.

But life has existed here on Earth for billions of years, though only within the last few hundred thousand have beings we'd recognise as intelligent existed here. Only in the last 5000 - 6000 years have we formed organised civilisations, and only in the last couple of centuries have we begun to become truly technologically advanced..

Intelligent, technologically advanced, life might be much rarer than life in general. Yet statistically it must surely exist. But whilst we try to reach out and communicate with radio waves, Neil DeGrasse points out that other technologically advanced beings might have moved well beyond us and figured out a much smarter way to communicate that we are unaware of. Fact is, unless two intelligent species attempt to communicate with technologically similar means both are capable of receiving - and the odds against that might well be enormous - communication will fail. So communicating with other intelligent life is never going to be easy.

Has intelligent life from elsewhere ever visited us? Not sure. If they are limited to light speed I actually doubt it. The time necessary for such journeys would be very long, perhaps centuries or millennia. But if there are technologically advanced ways of circumventing the light speed limit which we as yet have not figured out, then perhaps visitations from elsewhere are possible, and might even have happened.

[spywareonya 37,961]

7 minutes ago, steve25805 said:

If they are limited to light speed I actually doubt it. The time necessary for such journeys would be very long, perhaps centuries or millennia. But if there are technologically advanced ways of circumventing the light speed limit which we as yet have not figured out, then perhaps visitations from elsewhere are possible, and might even have happened.

This is the hardest shit of Occultism. Our Lore says aliens managed to find a way to actually evade this problem but I know it's hard to believe, and that's why I never talk about it. At least the stuff about the Gods has scientifical explainations… alien technology from our Lore could sound simply like an Asimov's fan fantasies...

[2prnot2p 1,066]

The odds are that there is most likely life out there.  But, due to the distance, as Steve said, I don't believe we've been visited by aliens in space craft. I believe people do see objects in the sky.  So many sightings have occurred that there must be something to it.  But, natural phenomena, weather balloons, and top secret military craft could account for most, if not all, of those sightings.  Nevertheless, it is a very interesting topic!

[spywareonya 37,961]

36 minutes ago, 2prnot2p said:

The odds are that there is most likely life out there.  But, due to the distance, as Steve said, I don't believe we've been visited by aliens in space craft. I believe people do see objects in the sky.  So many sightings have occurred that there must be something to it.  But, natural phenomena, weather balloons, and top secret military craft could account for most, if not all, of those sightings.  Nevertheless, it is a very interesting topic!

@steve25805

 

As I said, I do not want in any way be pushy

Let's just hypothize this

Aliens do NOT know how to travel faster than light. They are just a little more advanced than us. Enough to discover there are more than 3 dimensions in the Multiverse, and that a grid of wormholes NOT depending on blackholes exists everywhere under the surface of the SpaceTime continuum like we know it.

They would never be able to craft such a thing themselves in any way. They just discovered it and learnt how to phase through it. 

Now let's imagine they live on the opposite corner of the Universe. They phase through one of them and reappear a second later in Texas, bringing with them wave-lenght functions from outside of the Continuum thus shambling Time as many people referred about Encounters

 

Just talking

[steve25805 126,021]

5 hours ago, spywareonya said:

@steve25805

 

As I said, I do not want in any way be pushy

Let's just hypothize this

Aliens do NOT know how to travel faster than light. They are just a little more advanced than us. Enough to discover there are more than 3 dimensions in the Multiverse, and that a grid of wormholes NOT depending on blackholes exists everywhere under the surface of the SpaceTime continuum like we know it.

They would never be able to craft such a thing themselves in any way. They just discovered it and learnt how to phase through it. 

Now let's imagine they live on the opposite corner of the Universe. They phase through one of them and reappear a second later in Texas, bringing with them wave-lenght functions from outside of the Continuum thus shambling Time as many people referred about Encounters

 

Just talking

It's ok, @spywareonya

When I spoke of faster than light travel I was talking about getting from point A to point B faster than light could. This could easily be achieved by wormholes without any vehicle ever having to exceed 186, 000mps. This is what I meant as an example of an advanced technological species travelling faster than light. They may not be doing so literally but using some means like wormholes or dimension warps or whatever to get from point A to point B faster than light could.

[spywareonya 37,961]

11 minutes ago, steve25805 said:

It's ok, @spywareonya

When I spoke of faster than light travel I was talking about getting from point A to point B faster than light could. This could easily be achieved by wormholes without any vehicle ever having to exceed 186, 000mph. This is what I meant as an example of an advanced technological species travelling faster than light. They may not be doing so literally but using some means like wormholes or dimension warps or whatever to get from point A to point B faster than light could.

In this case ok. According to our Lore, this is how they do. Accelerating a vehicle at high speed is expendable and alien races has a thing for "supplies", as a cultural/political/philosophical lifestyle and mind-set, they are terribly concerned with using as less energy as possible, in everything they do

[2prnot2p 1,066]

@steve25805

There's one major problem with what you wrote.  Light travels 186,000 MILES PER SECOND, not per hour!  So far, they have not discovered anything that travels faster than light.  Am I wrong?  I might not be up on the latest discoveries.  Didn't Einstein theorize that nothing could ever travel faster than light?   I believe he did.  I took Astronomy so very long ago. 

Also, how could one steer a craft at that speed, assuming you could reach the speed of light?  The distances to other stars and galaxies are measured in a straight line.  With planets, asteroids, moons, and stars...you'd hit something!  Navigation would be impossible from my way of thinking.  Let's say they solved that problem.  They'd have to go the speed of light for 4 years just to get to the next closest star in OUR GALAXY!!!  They'd still be in the Milky Way.  LOL!

So nah, no alien spacecraft.  Nope.  We need the late Stephen Hawking here.  LOL!  He had a great series on PBS here a few years back.  It was mind-blowing.  What a great mind he had.

Edited March 4, 2019 by 2prnot2p

[2prnot2p 1,066]

2 hours ago, spywareonya said:

Now let's imagine they live on the opposite corner of the Universe. They phase through one of them and reappear a second later in Texas, bringing with them wave-lenght functions from outside of the Continuum thus shambling Time as many people referred about Encounters

If they appear in Texas, can they take Unabashed User with them?  LMAO!

[steve25805 126,021]

3 hours ago, 2prnot2p said:

@steve25805

There's one major problem with what you wrote.  Light travels 186,000 MILES PER SECOND, not per hour!  So far, they have not discovered anything that travels faster than light.  Am I wrong?  I might not be up on the latest discoveries.  Didn't Einstein theorize that nothing could ever travel faster than light?   I believe he did.  I took Astronomy so very long ago. 

Also, how could one steer a craft at that speed, assuming you could reach the speed of light?  The distances to other stars and galaxies are measured in a straight line.  With planets, asteroids, moons, and stars...you'd hit something!  Navigation would be impossible from my way of thinking.  Let's say they solved that problem.  They'd have to go the speed of light for 4 years just to get to the next closest star in OUR GALAXY!!!  They'd still be in the Milky Way.  LOL!

So nah, no alien spacecraft.  Nope.  We need the late Stephen Hawking here.  LOL!  He had a great series on PBS here a few years back.  It was mind-blowing.  What a great mind he had.

My bad - edited it now. Of course I know it's 186,000 miles per second but typed mph in a moment of absent-mindedness.

I accept that such speeds are unlikely. With all we currently know the difficulties you mention are sound. But we cannot know what ways around this might or might not be technologically possible. People once thought flight was technologically impossible and scoffed at those who thought otherwise. But technology in their future has made it possible.

Anyway, there may be all sorts of clever ways to circumvent the distance problem, eg wormholes or dimensional warps, or whatever. We cannot be arrogant enough to assume it to be impossible just because WE haven't figured it out yet. Otherwise we might be no better than all those people 150 years ago who scoffed at the concept of human flight.

And yeah Einstein's theories suggest that nothing can travel faster than light, and so far these theories have withstood every test and proven reliable. So at the moment I tend to believe that faster than light speeds in a conventional sense probably are impossible. But like I said there may be unconventional ways of achieving the same thing that are possible but technologically far beyond us right now, involving the warping of spacetime, the use of extra-dimensional travel, or wormholes. We cannot rule such things out anymore than we can rule them in just because we cannot do them right now. We cannot definitively say they are impossible.

 

[F.W 5,734]

In the entire universe there must be life.

In our solar system we live in the "Goldilocks zone".Where we are just the right distance from our star,not too hot not cold.A few more thousand miles either way from the sun,and our seas would evaporate,or turn to ice,like many planetary worlds we know of..There must be other worlds too.

Probably there are worlds that are thousands or even millions of years ahead of us,or worlds where there are fish like animals just developing legs and lungs,or large land animals dominating the world.

All the Red Giants,are suns that have burnt out after their lifetimes,thus destroying any planets around them..Our own sun will do this in 5 billion years or something...Maybe for every Red Giant there were inhabited planets.

[Scot_Lover 1,876]

Apparently, latest estimates indicate that there are 100 million 'Goldilock Planets' just in our galaxy.

Then there is the 'relativity' bugaboo. At a constant 1g acceleration, you can cross the galaxy in 12 years ship time, but it's 135,000 years to the incumbents of Planet Earth.

This is theoretical, nothing can accelerate at 1g indefinitely, but that's all you need to do.

[David North 47]

How interesting to find such an erudite debate here. I was a scientist in a past life and also read for a degree in astrophysics. As Carl Sagan put it, paraphrasing, if no other life exists, there's an awful lot of wasted real estate out there. I'll quote him from Pale Blue Dot because he sums it all up so neatly with a handful of words:  "There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."

[spywareonya 37,961]

11 hours ago, 2prnot2p said:

If they appear in Texas, can they take Unabashed User with them?  LMAO!

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

(I love that guy, and his wife is pretty tasty)

[spywareonya 37,961]

1 hour ago, David North said:

such an erudite debate here

Hidden here and there, this forum houses debates on History and Politic that could make a self-declared expert to blush. There are also tons of stuff about hypothesis to explain 5% of the supernatural by scientific means (sacking the other 95% as it must be). I can tell you with the most Amazing sincerity and marvel, that this forum's highlights are NOT about pee nor sex

 

 

1 hour ago, David North said:

read for a degree in astrophysics

Kudos to you, I have acquaintances there too. And I am so glad to have you here!

 

1 hour ago, David North said:

Sagan

You wrote the magickal formula to be granted access to my heart

 

 

Edited March 4, 2019 by spywareonya

[WantonLee 861]

8 hours ago, David North said:

(...)

Pale Blue

(...)

Thanksfor triggering me, now you have to deal with what's comming to you - deal with it. 😛

Who isn't familiar with this video, should watch it now:

 

I think this should be used in a test to see if someone fit's the role of a (political) leader. If such a person can watch that video without sheding a tear, that person is not fit to lead other humans. - PERIOD -

[WantonLee 861]

Oh, on topic, I almost forgot:

If everything science is telling us about the universe is true (at least in observation - interpretation is a different story), it is hard to believe Earth is the only inhabited world in the universe.

If life can grow to some complexity that a nervous systems appears, intelligence is - in my oppinion - just another step, and will naturally occure.

 

Given that the universe is full of planets, and sun's that are older then our own,... I think we are under close observation already.

Wheter we have been visited or not I can not tell. But my best bet is that who ever is watching us is waiting for us.

Not for us to be able to travel to the stars and understand the universe - but for us to be able to travel our own minds and understand ourselfes.

Become ACTUALLY self-aware.

If such a thing like a federation of space-faring species exist, I really don't think the state of our technological achievments will be our ticket to become a member of such an organization... .

[spywareonya 37,961]

1 hour ago, WantonLee said:

If such a thing like a federation of space-faring species exist, I really don't think the state of our technological achievments will be our ticket to become a member of such an organization... .

It's more a matter of psychology and ethic… but you quite hit the nail on the head

[speedy3471 10,655]

I don't belive for a second that we are alone in the universe, galaxy hell likey even earth. I find it hard to believe the human race is the smartest race in existence. Now don't get me wrong, humans can be very smart at times and yet so dumb as well

[2prnot2p 1,066]

 

 

[Riley 13,064]

 

Edited March 7, 2019 by Riley

[2prnot2p 1,066]

Great video, @Riley !!!  I didn't want to be the first to bring up this topic, but...since you got the ball rolling, I'll expand just a little.

Up until now, we've been looking at the "are we alone" question through the astronomical perspective.  However, in biology, it's quite different.  And, I do know more about biology than astronomy.

According to biology, it was a real crap shoot that life even began here on earth.  One little thing altered, and...no life!  (Never mind evolving to our current Homo Sapiens status.) This is a position that I agree with 100%.  I won't bore anyone with all the details and I'll be the first to state that I am not an expert.  But, I think any life out there would most likely be algae or bacteria and not evolve to what we are.  Some say the opinion is arrogant, but I studied biology and evolution a lot and trust me, they make their case very well.  However, I'm not qualified to take the podium and defend it.  Sorry.

On the contrary, I think it's more arrogant to just assume that there are such incredibly advanced life forms out there.  That is projecting ourselves, in a way, on the universe.  What we've become has nothing to do with what they've become, IF there is life out there.  I hope you see my point.  Keep in mind the fact that only .1% of all living things that have ever lived still exist.  Yet, we have an ideal planet for life, right?  99.9% of all life became extinct!  Hmm...it does make one wonder, doesn't it?

So, to me, no smart aliens, no spacecraft, and....most likely only basic organisms IF there's life at all.  Man, I know I'm gonna take a hit on this.  LOL!

Edited March 7, 2019 by 2prnot2p

[spywareonya 37,961]

16 hours ago, 2prnot2p said:

So, to me, no smart aliens, no spacecraft, and....most likely only basic organisms IF there's life at all.  Man, I know I'm gonna take a hit on this.

Though I simply cannot agree with you, I quite have to endorse the thought that intelligent life IS rare

About how important we are, Cosmicism doesn't deny an Existetialistic attitude in life

Which is 99% of the core of my Path by the way ihihihi

[steve25805 126,021]

22 hours ago, 2prnot2p said:

Great video, @Riley !!!  I didn't want to be the first to bring up this topic, but...since you got the ball rolling, I'll expand just a little.

Up until now, we've been looking at the "are we alone" question through the astronomical perspective.  However, in biology, it's quite different.  And, I do know more about biology than astronomy.

According to biology, it was a real crap shoot that life even began here on earth.  One little thing altered, and...no life!  (Never mind evolving to our current Homo Sapiens status.) This is a position that I agree with 100%.  I won't bore anyone with all the details and I'll be the first to state that I am not an expert.  But, I think any life out there would most likely be algae or bacteria and not evolve to what we are.  Some say the opinion is arrogant, but I studied biology and evolution a lot and trust me, they make their case very well.  However, I'm not qualified to take the podium and defend it.  Sorry.

On the contrary, I think it's more arrogant to just assume that there are such incredibly advanced life forms out there.  That is projecting ourselves, in a way, on the universe.  What we've become has nothing to do with what they've become, IF there is life out there.  I hope you see my point.  Keep in mind the fact that only .1% of all living things that have ever lived still exist.  Yet, we have an ideal planet for life, right?  99.9% of all life became extinct!  Hmm...it does make one wonder, doesn't it?

So, to me, no smart aliens, no spacecraft, and....most likely only basic organisms IF there's life at all.  Man, I know I'm gonna take a hit on this.  LOL!

I do think intelligent life is likely to be relatively rare. But even our own galaxy is so vast that it is statistically unlikely - it seems to me - that we are the only intelligent species within it.

Besides which, I think life at a lower microbial level is likely to be fairly common because I just have a hunch that life itself is a naturally developing thing wherever conditions are suitable for it. With such life being common, the evolution of more complex organisms, though rarer, should also be not that uncommon. And in some places life is likely to have developed earlier than it did here on older worlds, thus allowing more time for intelligent beings to develop.

I very much doubt in this vast universe of billions of galaxies, each containing billions of stars, the majority of which appear to be orbited by planets, that we are the only intelligent species ever to have emerged, the pinnacle of creation in this vast universe. It seems to me that it is the height of arrogance to assume that we are. Statistical probability - it seems to me - tends to suggest that other intelligent species may well have preceded us and - if still in existence as some are likely to be statistically - should be more advanced than us.

Whether or not any have ever visited us though is I suspect likely to depend upon whether the lightspeed limit can be circumvented by clever means, eg wormholes or space warps. The jury is still out on that one for me. But I do not dismiss the possibility out of hand. I think it would be arrogant to do so.