Half Life of a Tissue ? Does anyone know ?

[gldenwetgoose 21,500]

A question for you good folks...  does anyone know how long it takes for an average tissue to biodegrade?

What I mean is, with normal rain, dew and the like, a tissue left on the ground is going to degrade and dissolve sort of just like any other kind of wood pulp product, I'm just wondering if we have any scientists in the crowd who may have more than just a guess answer.

Reason for the curiosity follows on from a bit of discussion about discarded tissues, wipes, napkins or whatever you prefer to call them - starting a thread rather than further derail the existing post.

I'm very much asking out of curiosity - when we find a discarded tissue against a tree or bush, it's a pretty good bet why it's there - but I'm wondering how long it's been there?

 

I'm writing this on one of my many trips to a small Spanish town...  I've just had an errand to run in the local city 80km away, and had a stroll around.  As the sort of pervert who enjoys seeing a little well-heeled glamour, the city on a Saturday afternoon is well worth a visit.  Anyway, with mild horniness in mind I got back in my hire car for the hour or so drive back.  I'd had a large Starbucks black coffee in the city and then in the car was swigging on a 500ml bottle of water and I could feel myself filling steadily.

The first half of the journey is on fairly busy roads, but then the last 60km is long empty winding hill roads with only one town in the middle.  So mostly the roads are empty - no petrol stations, service stops or restaurants apart from the town.

By the time I got 15km out of the last town, with another 5km or so to drive I was verging on desperate.  I could have made it home but decided I preferred an outdoor pee.  Most of the road has no verge so no chance of stopping, but then I spotted a triangle of gravel at the side of the road - enough space to slow and pull off the road.  Just past the gravel the road turned into a bridge, so there was a barrier and then the grassy banking dropping down.

I got out of may car and stepped over the barrier to have my pee. The first thing I noticed were three or so tissues discarded just over the barrier.  Then on the banking a couple of trees gave shelter and there were more discarded tissues.  I had an amazing pee looking across a valley in the afternoon sunshine.  After that I instinctively walked to the right of the (left hand drive) car, and the verge at the side of the gravel was literally covered in tissues.

So all in all, that little pull of spot, about an hour's drive from the city, must have held maybe 20-30 tissues.  That is presumably 20-30 ladies who just couldn't wait any longer, or didn't want to arrive at their destination frantically bursting, and chose that spot to relieve their need.

The question is - how long would that time span?   A couple of weeks, more or maybe less?  Anybody know?   Are we talking about maybe one person a day stopping there...  or more?

Incidentally, as I carried on a much relieved but increasingly aroused drive I swear every little gateway had flashes of white paper in the grass...

[muffinhuntr 1,213]

"Tissues" covers a broad range of types of products. Regular tissues (or toilet paper for that matter) dissolve in a few rains. How long it takes to disappear depends on the weather. A string of warm sunny day will be longer, rainy day are shorter. Its also a matter of size. A whole tissue takes longer to degrade than one that is in pieces. So, it's ok to use regular tissues to wipe girls, but tear them in smaller bits (or pee them to size) when you're done.

[thisguy20 937]

Also depends on how many layers and if the tissues have lotion in them.

[Carpetpisser 515]

I'd say your average toilet roll/tissue would break down fairly quickly if it's in a humid/wet climate. Likely 3-4 days less if it rains. This might make for a good experiment!

[Alfresco 11,639]

I have often wondered the same thing.   Sometimes you know it is fresh because the puddle is still vaguely visible on the ground, but that goes very quickly and beyond that point it is very difficult to know how long the tissue has been there.  For me, it is particularly satisfying and frustrating to see a tissue and the remnants of a puddle because I know that someone has peed there very recently, but then I'm frustrated as I missed seeing the puddle in the making!  In the case of that particular place @gldenwetgoose, did you see tissues at varying stages of decay?  I tend to either see obviously 'new' tissues that are fairly fresh or complete sodden messes, or they have disappeared, which tends to imply that they don't stay around very long once it has rained heavily.  They probably stay fairly pristine until the first heavy rain, which turns them to a mess, which then quickly falls apart.

Maybe those of us who can should put some tissues in our gardens/yards/etc and monitor them to observe deterioration, noting the weather pattern over the experiment.  If we do that around the world between us, then we should be able to cover quite a bit of weather variation.  For the purpose of the experiment, it isn't essential to have a lady use it to wipe first, but of course that would make for a more realistic experiment - after all, the tissue is going to get slightly wet on wiping.  Of course, you would have to make sure the tissue was left in such a place that it wasn't going to get blown away in the wind, otherwise you would lose your ability to monitor the progress.

As well as the variables mentioned by others above, there is also the factor of the way in which the tissue is discarded.  If it is scrunched into a tight ball and hidden under an overhanging tree root, I would suggest it would last longer than if it were carelessly discarded after the wipe and left fully out in the open and all opened out.   Then, as @muffinhuntr says, breaking it up would speed it up further.   Also, if the lady placed or dropped the tissue in the puddle, it would have a head start on breaking down because it would be wet straight away, rather than having to wait until it rains.

@gldenwetgoose, I have to worry about your maths skills or navigation ability if you still have 60km left to go when you are half way through an 80km journey though.  Also, if that were me, once I'd started to notice the tissues, I might have found the journey taking a whole lot longer as I would stop to check out multiple places - for scientific research of course.  If I stop in a layby, I always look around for evidence of previous peeing.

The other thing to consider is that if you find 20 tissues in one place, it probably means more than 20 ladies have peed there since those tissues started accumulating, as some of them wouldn't have wiped and others may have wiped and taken their tissue with them to dispose of in a bin.  I know that those taking the tissues away with them will be a tiny minority, but there are probably a good percentage who don't wipe - either because they don't have tissues with them or because they choose not to.   Certainly with what I've seen of girls peeing outside on a night out, very few actually wipe.  The vast majority squat and then simply pull up their knickers/thongs and replace their other clothes.  A few bounce wildly to shake drips and a few stay in the squat for some time after the pee to drip dry.  I appreciate the situation of drunk nightclub clientele is probably slightly different to that of your average car passenger, but there will be some level of similarity.

 

[gldenwetgoose 21,500]

1 hour ago, Alfresco said:

@gldenwetgoose, I have to worry about your maths skills or navigation ability if you still have 60km left to go when you are half way through an 80km journey though.  Also, if that were me, once I'd started to notice the tissues, I might have found the journey taking a whole lot longer as I would stop to check out multiple places - for scientific research of course.  If I stop in a layby, I always look around for evidence of previous peeing.

Ha ha - yes, my concentration must have been knocked a little lol.   But no, I'd been in the city and had an 80km journey home.  The first 25 is fairly industrial, plenty of traffic, industrial premises and the like.  Then a town...  and 40km of nothing to the next town.  Finally another 15km from that second town to my doorstep.

To be precise though, because I stopped the car and turned off the engine at that exact spot my phone decided to conveniently store the last place I 'parked'.  So... 6km from my house, which neither half way or three-quarters lol.  But certainly an hour out of town...   and let's face it not everyone will be stopping in my town, many may be continuing onwards too.

[Kupar 13,341]

You will probably have done the searching, but as I can't add anything from a personal technical perspective, I'll just say "it might be longer than you expect". Could have been there weeks.

https://www.thinkingsustainably.com/is-tissue-paper-biodegradable/

[Alfresco 11,639]

Interesting article @Kupar.

I have started my experiment.  

I took several samples of tissue, each being 3 sheets, folded on top of each other, wiped a wet patch out of the sink (sorry, I didn’t have a willing female volunteer to hand) to give a small damp area on the tissue then I placed the tissues outside in the garden behind the shed.  

They are on fine gravel and exposed to whatever rain etc we get.   It would have been more realistic if they were on earth or with vegetation as that is probably more typical of the natural environment, but I don’t have a suitable place.  I may try that somewhere else another time.

I laid one neatly on the ground, three sheets folded over each other, the next one I folded in half again so it is half the size of a typical sheet and six sheets thick.  I figured some girls fold it to make it narrower and thicker for wiping. I fluffed one up so it was more typical of a girl who had bunched the tissue, wiped and then just dropped it and I scrunched one up tightly.   Finally I tucked one underneath the side of a deck where it would be sheltered from the elements in a similar way to if a girl hid her tissue in a covered space outside.

I will monitor them over time and see what results. 
 

[Kupar 13,341]

6 minutes ago, Alfresco said:

Interesting article @Kupar.

I have started my experiment.  

I took several samples of tissue, each being 3 sheets, folded on top of each other, wiped a wet patch out of the sink (sorry, I didn’t have a willing female volunteer to hand) to give a small damp area on the tissue then I placed the tissues outside in the garden behind the shed.  

They are on fine gravel and exposed to whatever rain etc we get.   It would have been more realistic if they were on earth or with vegetation as that is probably more typical of the natural environment, but I don’t have a suitable place.  I may try that somewhere else another time.

I laid one neatly on the ground, three sheets folded over each other, the next one I folded in half again so it is half the size of a typical sheet and six sheets thick.  I figured some girls fold it to make it narrower and thicker for wiping. I fluffed one up so it was more typical of a girl who had bunched the tissue, wiped and then just dropped it and I scrunched one up tightly.   Finally I tucked one underneath the side of a deck where it would be sheltered from the elements in a similar way to if a girl hid her tissue in a covered space outside.

I will monitor them over time and see what results. 
 

Excellent! Empirical science in action. 

[gldenwetgoose 21,500]

Thanks guys...   and look forward to the experiment progressing.

I was thinking a bit more about it after a walk on Sunday.   On Saturday I'd stopped for my own pee on the side of the main road and had seen the evidence of maybe 20 or so tissues on that one little pull-off stop.  It wasn't an official layby or parking area, just a little spot where someone in need of a stop could pull off the road.

On Sunday my walk took me down a little B road for literally only a couple of km and then onto a dirt track.  I drove a few hundred metres and parked, then walking maybe another 800m.   As I did I noticed a couple of tissues in bushes, then the narrow dirt track widened and there were a couple of cars parked.  Next to them were more discarded tissues in various states of degradation.  I guess where people would maybe spend a few hours at the lake, either taking a pee on arriving or before heading home.

Now...  If the average person has a pee maybe every two hours... thinking about that layby, I've driven past it maybe 30 times in the last two years and never seen a car parked there (I have seen one car stopped further towards the city with passenger door open once).   So I'm guessing it's not a daily occurrence that people stop at that exact spot.  Maybe a couple of people a week if that?  So to see 15-20 tissues, I'm guessing many have been there a long time....

Still, will be interesting to see what happens @Alfresco (hope I don't make too much of a mess of your gravel) & @Kupar

 

BTW, From Google streetview, here's the spot and a close-up including some of the evidence...

[Kupar 13,341]

I'm sure the modelling can be done to add some more insight from your observations Goose, but I am too lazy to do it. (Also I think the model would be quite sensitive to the estimated input values for length of typical stop, proportion of people who stop *and* take a pee, how many tissues used by the average woman - and I am assuming it's only women who'd bother, and not every woman either - etc).

I just like to see the nice views 🙂 It's not the Pennines, is it?

Edited December 14, 2021 by Kupar
words missing

[mickymoist 3,515]

Some interesting stuff on here, https://www.conserve-energy-future.com/is-tissue-paper-recyclable.php particularly that to biodegrade with any speed things need to be buried or layered with other stuff for microorganisms to thrive, and also need heat. If the temp drops to freezing or below they wont biodegrade, so I guess in winter time they could well be around for many months. 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2021 by mickymoist

[F0rester 165]

Some Googling suggested a month. More in a less rainy climate which I understand Spain to be. Less if the tissue is saturated so when peeing in pairs the second should always go for target practice.

[Alfresco 11,639]

8 hours ago, F0rester said:

Some Googling suggested a month. More in a less rainy climate which I understand Spain to be. Less if the tissue is saturated so when peeing in pairs the second should always go for target practice.

And best if the lady drops the tissue in the puddle (presuming it hasn't soaked away immediately).

[Alfresco 11,639]

Roughly two weeks since I put some tissues out In the garden.  We started off with no rain for about a week, then had a reasonable amount of rain over the second week but no torrential downpours.  I have had to move them because we have decided to replace the fence which means my wife would see down there and wonder why on earth there would be tissues there.

Anyway, the initial observation is that all of the tissues are very much still in evidence after the first two weeks.  They are all saturated but when I picked them up to move them, they had enough integrity not to fall apart.  They looked like they were starting the process of deteriorating but far from disintegrated.

I have now put them outside our garden on some woodland behind the house.  I will keep tabs on them, but it probably messes with the experiment slightly as they have moved from being on gravel to being on earth and wishing vegetation plus they have been handled.

Still, may help with some idea of the rate of decay.  

[Vassal 1,471]

Just from a leave no trace standpoint you shouldn't do it even if it dissolves in a few days. For me at least the fetish comes secondary to most things. I remember my disappointment after an extremely long day of hiking many miles to come to an extremely crowded campsite in the Smokie Mountains. After finding a semi-level spot for my tent I went off to go pee in the woods and the ground was just littered with toilet paper. Yeah it's hot thinking about all the women there squatting or standing to pee in the woods, in my mind all together 😉  but clean up after yourself. The campsite is going to be just as crowded the next day, and the day after that until the Winter. It's no one's responsibility but yourself to clean up after yourself. 

In one of the most remote and beautiful campsites I've ever been to had piles of shit and toilet paper in numerous places at tent sites. The privy was perfectly serviceable and didn't even smell. 

It takes years for toilet paper to fully degrade. They don't even want you burying it any more on the Pacific Crest Trail out West, you're supposed to pack it out.

https://blog.nols.edu/bust-leave-no-trace-myths

I know it's a kink for you voyeurs and I'm not trying to kink shame, but I wish people would clean up after themselves. Maybe start picking up after those lovely ladies? It'd give a great excuse for poking around pee spots and make you look like a hero and good person rather than a pervert.

[JesseP 1,277]

I have come to the conclusion you lot are all bonkers!

Me too I guess as I read the whole thread.

Here is my opinion. Toilet paper is designed so it disintegrates down the sewage system and causes minimal blockages. Lades who decide for whatever reason to piss outside are using tissue to wipe with which is far more robust. Also, it will depend on where they go, maybe under cover, maybe in the open, so the disintegration of the tissue will vary according to the location, the make, whether or not as @gldenwetgoose mentioned if is is rolled, folded or whatever.

I have seen tissues which are days and months old.

[Alfresco 11,639]

Just been outside and checked on the tissues that I put outside about 3 weeks ago.   They are still very much in evidence.  A bit of a soggy splotch, but still in the main held together as lumps of tissue.

[Alfresco 11,639]

On 12/27/2021 at 6:24 PM, JesseP said:

I have come to the conclusion you lot are all bonkers!

Yeah, we are probably all bonkers, but hopefully in a good way!   To be fair though, there is a very common misconception that tissues degrade very rapidly and it is great to see the different view points presented here.

My personal view is very mixed in that I do like to find a tissue if I think it evidences a woman peeing, but now I know how long they hang around, it does make me think that maybe the evidence isn't always as fresh as I think it is!  On the other hand, I abhor litter and defacing of our towns and countryside - so like others have said, it is saddening when you find large volumes of tissues etc., in one place like at a camp ground.   

It never ceases to amaze me how lazy and inconsiderate people are.   For example there is a small lake near me with a nice sandy beach, which is a very pleasant place to go.  The first decent summer day, it is a beauty spot, but by the second day, it is a rubbish tip.   People take their stuff their to eat and drink, absolutely fine, but they can't be bothered to take stuff away with them.  Surely they realise that that means that the next day the place won't be enjoyable for the next group of people?   They obviously just don't care.   By the end of a week, there are literally piles of rubbish there and then of course it is not an attractive place to go anymore.   It was at its worst at the height of lockdown when people could go out for exercise but bars etc were closed.   I know that is a somewhat different situation to finding an odd tissue in a bush, but the overarching principle still applies.

[Alfresco 11,639]

Remember the tissues that I put outside in mid December?   And that I moved them into a wooded area at the end of December?   Well this is what they are like now, roughly two months from initial placement:

You can see that they are not in great condition, but they are still a long way off being bio-degraded.

[Kupar 13,341]

15 minutes ago, Alfresco said:

Remember the tissues that I put outside in mid December?   And that I moved them into a wooded area at the end of December?   Well this is what they are like now, roughly two months from initial placement:

You can see that they are not in great condition, but they are still a long way off being bio-degraded.

Wow - they really don't rot away quickly do they?!