Why we are so turned on by this?

[Dr.P 1,474]

@Takashi96,  "I had a neighbor girl who would pee in front of me when she was wearing a dresses or skirts."

I forgot to mention yesterday that seems to be a common last privacy curtain, used by many women. Examples abound, in the media.

One of my favorites is an old movie, "Fun with Dick and Jane" (1977), in which Jane Fonda and George Segal need some privacy to hatch some subplot. She pulls him into the bathroom with her, although he seems very reluctant. She whips her long, pleated skirt up, and sits on the toilet, draping it all around her, covering her legs completely, so they can have their discussion.  In a more recent example, "Mad Men," a popular TV series from 2007-2015, January Jones, playing Betty Draper, is sitting on the toilet, wearing a voluminous ruffled skirt, which covers her almost to her knees, when a naughty neighbor boy, whom she is apparently baby sitting, pushes the door open, and attempts to push her skirt up, for a better view, which she resists, very strongly. I think this episode was broadcast in the first or second season of the show. 

Edited November 20, 2022 by Dr.P
Added information on time of the episode.

[PissOnMyParade 447]

On 11/12/2022 at 7:41 PM, AWN_84 said:

Sometimes i wonder how such a simple and everyday act like urination turns ppl on so much! Sometimes i see the act trough the erotic scope, but sometimes i get this tought in my mind, is such a simple thing, we do it everyday, multiple times without ever realizing, so i decide to open this brainstorming thread about it. Everyone have their reason (including myself) on how we came to like the fetish, but have you stopped and wondered, why?

For me personally, it's kind of like a special privelege when a woman who i find sexually attractive consensually allows me to be a fly-on-the-wall whilst she's peeing.

Peeing is normally a private act that people do behind a locked door, so being invited to share that moment between the 2 of us behind those 4 walls is a naughty thrill.

[Takashi96 1,080]

12 hours ago, Dr.P said:

@Takashi96,  "I had a neighbor girl who would pee in front of me when she was wearing a dresses or skirts."

I forgot to mention yesterday that seems to be a common last privacy curtain, used by many women. Examples abound, in the media.

One of my favorites is an old movie, "Fun with Dick and Jane" (1977), in which Jane Fonda and George Segal need some privacy to hatch some subplot. She pulls him into the bathroom with her, although he seems very reluctant. She whips her long, pleated skirt up, and sits on the toilet, draping it all around her, covering her legs completely, so they can have their discussion.  In a more recent example, "Mad Men," a popular TV series from 2007-2015, January Jones, playing Betty Draper, is sitting on the toilet, wearing a voluminous ruffled skirt, which covers her almost to her knees, when a naughty neighbor boy, whom she is apparently baby sitting, pushes the door open, and attempts to push her skirt up, for a better view, which she resists, very strongly. I think this episode was broadcast in the first or second season of the show. 

I suppose if men peed sitting down and wore skirts we we would probably do the same thing? It's kind of a female equivalent of male casual peeing. Where we know nothing is exposed to those behind us. 

[Dr.P 1,474]

10 hours ago, bungholio69 said:

I feel if a friend who is a woman took me with them to the bathroom for whatever reason and had me there as she relieved herself I would take it like she enjoys my presence and that she trusts me and finds me a great friend to be around.

Yes she is doing something that I would get turned on by but I wouldn’t make a big deal out of it and see it as something intimate, like how two best friends would platonically cuddle each other if that makes any sense. 

I totally agree with your first statement, and understand and thank you for your second one, since it was a popular view in the 1970's and 80's, which you have stated very clearly. (By the way, Fonda and Segal were playing a married couple, rather than Platonic friends, in the 1977 movie.)

Back to my reality, which fits your hypothesis, very well. When I was dating "Ellie," in the 1970's and 80's, I wrestled, mentally, with these two possible  interpretations of her actions, for more than a decade. For those of you who have not read my descriptions of her behavior, she had a habit of leaving the bathroom door halfway open, whenever she peed, in my presence, over an off-and-on "friends with benefits" sexual relationship, which lasted about 10 years. I was sure that your first statement was true, about her attitudes toward me, but I was unsure if she was also testing my potential erotic interest in her peeing, or even teasing me, sexually, or whether her feelings were entirely comfortable, in a Platonic sense. I never had the courage to ask her, for fear that it would embarrass or anger her, and ruin a relationship, which I enjoyed, immensely, in spite of its limitations.

Years later, I discussed this relationship with several, mostly Platonic female friends, who didn't know "Ellie," at all, and asked their opinions. All of them agreed that she was testing my erotic interest, at the very least, and possibly teasing me, hoping that I would say something indicating interest, or make a move, like walking into the bathroom, with her. Since those discussions, I have always felt that this was one of my greatest missed opportunities, and regretted my lack of courage.

[Dr.P 1,474]

11 hours ago, bungholio69 said:

Idk what just happened but somehow I posted the same thing twice when trying to edit so ignore the copies and focus on the original

That has happened to me, also, several times. I don't understand the mechanics of the editing feature, on this board.

[Johnboy777 3,895]

11 minutes ago, Dr.P said:

That has happened to me, also, several times. I don't understand the mechanics of the editing feature, on this board.

Sometimes I get confused when editing too. I guess it gets easier in time, I  chalk it up to "getting old" ☺️

[Dr.P 1,474]

1 minute ago, Johnboy777 said:

Sometimes I get confused when editing too. I guess it gets easier in time, I  chalk it up to "getting old" 

That's certainly true of me!

[Carb0nBased 652]

1 hour ago, Dr.P said:

I totally agree with your first statement, and understand and thank you for your second one, since it was a popular view in the 1970's and 80's, which you have stated very clearly. (By the way, Fonda and Segal were playing a married couple, rather than Platonic friends, in the 1977 movie.)

Back to my reality, which fits your hypothesis, very well. When I was dating "Ellie," in the 1970's and 80's, I wrestled, mentally, with these two possible  interpretations of her actions, for more than a decade. For those of you who have not read my descriptions of her behavior, she had a habit of leaving the bathroom door halfway open, whenever she peed, in my presence, over an off-and-on "friends with benefits" sexual relationship, which lasted about 10 years. I was sure that your first statement was true, about her attitudes toward me, but I was unsure if she was also testing my potential erotic interest in her peeing, or even teasing me, sexually, or whether her feelings were entirely comfortable, in a Platonic sense. I never had the courage to ask her, for fear that it would embarrass or anger her, and ruin a relationship, which I enjoyed, immensely, in spite of its limitations.

Years later, I discussed this relationship with several, mostly Platonic female friends, who didn't know "Ellie," at all, and asked their opinions. All of them agreed that she was testing my erotic interest, at the very least, and possibly teasing me, hoping that I would say something indicating interest, or make a move, like walking into the bathroom, with her. Since those discussions, I have always felt that this was one of my greatest missed opportunities, and regretted my lack of courage.

I don't know how it was in the 70s and 80s, but from my own experiences I get the impression that women peeing openly in front of male friends without at least some intent of flirting/opening the door to sexual possibilities, especially one-on-one and without drinking being involved, is quite uncommon. The chance goes up at parties/"nights on the town" and in groups. In other words, in a mixed-gender group outdoors where considerable drinking is taking place, some of women's shyness about peeing disappears--particularly when it's dark enough to not see much of anything--though even then in my own experience I've mostly observed women disappearing at least a bit out of view, even if they found little need to hide why they were doing it. A similar thing goes for women asking guy friends to "stand guard" while they go in the bushes, still expecting the guy not to look, that doesn't imply any sexual interest. What's really rare is just a guy being over a girl's house chatting or playing video games or whatever and she uses the bathroom without closing the door, or even further does something to encourage him to come closer and/or stand where he can see anything.

I haven't had any really close completely platonic relationships with women though--so I don't know whether there are some pure friendships where women do pee openly in front of guys but would still be weirded out if the guy showed interest in what she was doing.

[NortheastPeeFan 361]

I have often tried to understand why I have this fetish too, but reading this thread has really made me look inside myself and I feel that I have perhaps come up with a better theory for why I have this fetish.  My pee fetish is specifically about watching other guys pee outside.  Breaking this down into multiple aspects, this what I have come up with:

The fact that my I find myself more turned on by other guys peeing rather than myself peeing I think comes from something from my childhood.  Back when I was a kid, I never had many friends, I still don't, so when it was time for recess I would watch other kids play because I had no one to play with.  I felt like a spectator rather than a participant.  As an adult this has morphed into things like watching other people have sex (looking up porn) because I have no one to have sex with.  Basically, if it is something I can't do or can't have, then I find myself living vicariously through others by watching them have the fun that I can't have for whatever reason.  I guess that includes peeing outside.

But why peeing outside?  What's the big deal?

I only had a couple of peeing outside experiences when I was a kid, one I don't remember at all and only heard about from my mom and the other I kind of remember, but mostly because it annoyed my mom.  I had to pee and the only option was to pull over on the side of the road.  After that experience I never wanted to pee outside again for the rest of my childhood because I associated it with my mom being unhappy.  My mom has changed her tune since then because during a couple of road trips that we took since I became an adult, there were a couple situations where the only option would have been to pee outside and my mom actually said it would be okay if I did so.  I never took any of those opportunities.  But the experience during my childhood combined with hearing about all the scary consequences of getting caught urinating in public in some places, made me think "peeing outside = bad and risky."

Yet when I see a guy pee outside, in movies, I think how bold, how confident.  To do something so "naughty", so "forbidden", yet act like there's nothing wrong with doing it.  This is why I see peeing outside as freeing, because it's like saying "I'm gonna do what I want to do."  But just as I see guys peeing outside exuding confidence, I see guys using the urinal exude confidence too.  Growing up, it seemed like guys who could use the urinal were the cool, confident ones.  It was during puberty when I had my problem of being pee shy at the urinal and I wished I could be confident enough to use one without issue.  It took me years, basically all of my teenage years to finally get to a point where I can pee at a urinal without much issue, though every now and then I will have a time where I can't go, but that only happens when there are a lot of guys around, like a stadium bathroom, and I don't have to go that badly.  Point is, I wanted to be confident like the guys who can pee at urinals or trees with ease, maybe that happening around the time of puberty somehow caused me to develop this fetish.

As I state in my profile, I'm gay.  Now, in my situation there is no "mystery" around peeing.  I know how guys pee because I am a guy.  They say confidence is sexy and given what I said in the last paragraph about men who pee outside exuding confidence, I can say that when I hear a man say he peed on a tree that is sexy to me.  However, if a guy says that peeing outside is gross and disgusting, that is not sexy at all to me.  As a gay man with a history of confidence issues, not only do I want to be the man peeing outside, I want to be with the man peeing outside.  If it is one thing that I feel like I have in common with my straight brethren though, is that  part of the appeal of watching someone pee is to see something so intimate, something that is meant to be private.  While it is not uncommon for men to pee standing next to each other, there's an unspoken rule that says you have to keep your eyes focused on your own dick and stream.  In other words, keeping your eyes on your own business.  So my fantasies involve that rule being broken, for a guy to let me see him aim his cock and piss on something.

So I guess the conclusion I've currently come to is that my fetish exists partly due to confidence issues, but also perhaps out of a desire to see something intimate?  Perhaps, I will never find the "right" answer, but I feel closer than before.

[Takashi96 1,080]

3 hours ago, Carb0nBased said:

I don't know how it was in the 70s and 80s, but from my own experiences I get the impression that women peeing openly in front of male friends without at least some intent of flirting/opening the door to sexual possibilities, especially one-on-one and without drinking being involved, is quite uncommon. The chance goes up at parties/"nights on the town" and in groups. In other words, in a mixed-gender group outdoors where considerable drinking is taking place, some of women's shyness about peeing disappears--particularly when it's dark enough to not see much of anything--though even then in my own experience I've mostly observed women disappearing at least a bit out of view, even if they found little need to hide why they were doing it. A similar thing goes for women asking guy friends to "stand guard" while they go in the bushes, still expecting the guy not to look, that doesn't imply any sexual interest. What's really rare is just a guy being over a girl's house chatting or playing video games or whatever and she uses the bathroom without closing the door, or even further does something to encourage him to come closer and/or stand where he can see anything.

I haven't had any really close completely platonic relationships with women though--so I don't know whether there are some pure friendships where women do pee openly in front of guys but would still be weirded out if the guy showed interest in what she was doing.

It's hard to say. I agree, peeing openly can be a form of flirtation or teasing. But that's not always an invitation to something physical or romantic. Some people just like to flirt. I suppose it's an ego boost for them. In the case of @Dr.P and "Ellie," I agree with his platonic female friends. It does sound like she was testing his interest in those moments. But then they were also in a long term friends with benefits relationship. And those tend to be filled with acts of ambiguous unspoken erotic and sensual communication, where it's hard to know what the hell the other person really wants?

Alcohol is a huge factor in lowering inhibitions. And was a factor in the majority of situations where platonic female friends peed casually in my presence. But I also have platonic female friends who pee in front of me sober, who have no intention of getting together with me in a sexual or romantic way. And probably would be weirded out if I showed a sexual interest in their peeing. But in those cases, they're very close, decade plus friendships, where I barely even register as male to them. I think that is pretty rare.  

But I think there's also a generational component. Girls under 30 pee more openly than I've ever seen in previous generations. And there is, within a certain subculture of gen z, a concerted effort to get rid of conventional gender divisions like segregated restrooms. 

Edited November 21, 2022 by Takashi96
Clarity.

[Takashi96 1,080]

1 hour ago, NortheastPeeFan said:

I have often tried to understand why I have this fetish too, but reading this thread has really made me look inside myself and I feel that I have perhaps come up with a better theory for why I have this fetish.  My pee fetish is specifically about watching other guys pee outside.  Breaking this down into multiple aspects, this what I have come up with:

The fact that my I find myself more turned on by other guys peeing rather than myself peeing I think comes from something from my childhood.  Back when I was a kid, I never had many friends, I still don't, so when it was time for recess I would watch other kids play because I had no one to play with.  I felt like a spectator rather than a participant.  As an adult this has morphed into things like watching other people have sex (looking up porn) because I have no one to have sex with.  Basically, if it is something I can't do or can't have, then I find myself living vicariously through others by watching them have the fun that I can't have for whatever reason.  I guess that includes peeing outside.

But why peeing outside?  What's the big deal?

I only had a couple of peeing outside experiences when I was a kid, one I don't remember at all and only heard about from my mom and the other I kind of remember, but mostly because it annoyed my mom.  I had to pee and the only option was to pull over on the side of the road.  After that experience I never wanted to pee outside again for the rest of my childhood because I associated it with my mom being unhappy.  My mom has changed her tune since then because during a couple of road trips that we took since I became an adult, there were a couple situations where the only option would have been to pee outside and my mom actually said it would be okay if I did so.  I never took any of those opportunities.  But the experience during my childhood combined with hearing about all the scary consequences of getting caught urinating in public in some places, made me think "peeing outside = bad and risky."

Yet when I see a guy pee outside, in movies, I think how bold, how confident.  To do something so "naughty", so "forbidden", yet act like there's nothing wrong with doing it.  This is why I see peeing outside as freeing, because it's like saying "I'm gonna do what I want to do."  But just as I see guys peeing outside exuding confidence, I see guys using the urinal exude confidence too.  Growing up, it seemed like guys who could use the urinal were the cool, confident ones.  It was during puberty when I had my problem of being pee shy at the urinal and I wished I could be confident enough to use one without issue.  It took me years, basically all of my teenage years to finally get to a point where I can pee at a urinal without much issue, though every now and then I will have a time where I can't go, but that only happens when there are a lot of guys around, like a stadium bathroom, and I don't have to go that badly.  Point is, I wanted to be confident like the guys who can pee at urinals or trees with ease, maybe that happening around the time of puberty somehow caused me to develop this fetish.

As I state in my profile, I'm gay.  Now, in my situation there is no "mystery" around peeing.  I know how guys pee because I am a guy.  They say confidence is sexy and given what I said in the last paragraph about men who pee outside exuding confidence, I can say that when I hear a man say he peed on a tree that is sexy to me.  However, if a guy says that peeing outside is gross and disgusting, that is not sexy at all to me.  As a gay man with a history of confidence issues, not only do I want to be the man peeing outside, I want to be with the man peeing outside.  If it is one thing that I feel like I have in common with my straight brethren though, is that  part of the appeal of watching someone pee is to see something so intimate, something that is meant to be private.  While it is not uncommon for men to pee standing next to each other, there's an unspoken rule that says you have to keep your eyes focused on your own dick and stream.  In other words, keeping your eyes on your own business.  So my fantasies involve that rule being broken, for a guy to let me see him aim his cock and piss on something.

So I guess the conclusion I've currently come to is that my fetish exists partly due to confidence issues, but also perhaps out of a desire to see something intimate?  Perhaps, I will never find the "right" answer, but I feel closer than before.

I couldn't agree more with your hypothesis. In fact, many of your early experiences mirrored my own. Like in your situation, I had been intimidated into not peeing outside by warnings of the potential negative consequences of doing so.

It was only after two rough older boys moved into my neighborhood that I realized I'd been manipulated into peeing indoors by fear. And even after seeing the new neighbors pee anywhere and everywhere I still wasn't confident enough to join them. Watching them however, did plant some of the seeds that would grow into this fetish later on. Their confidence had a powerful effect on me. And shortly after moving to a new neighborhood, I convinced another boy to skip swim practice and join me in peeing all around the locker room. 

At that point, the mystery of how girls peed was all but absent from my thoughts. I had been convinced by other kids that girls were physically incapable of emptying their bladders outside of toilets without spraying urine all over themselves. Therefore, the joy of peeing outside of a bathroom (especially with a co-conspirator) was a pleasure reserved for those of us with penises. And though I didn't want to be with my boy friends romantically, I was always excited to watch, or even hear about them relieving themselves "where they shouldn't."

It was only after I gained some girl friends and started hearing stories about peeing in bushes and roadsides that I learned it was possible to do so with a different organ. And ultimately, that's what awakened my fixation with learning how they did so? As well as hearing about and seeing them in the act.  

 

Edited November 21, 2022 by Takashi96
Clarity.

[steve25805 126,393]

On 11/12/2022 at 7:41 PM, AWN_84 said:

Sometimes i wonder how such a simple and everyday act like urination turns ppl on so much! Sometimes i see the act trough the erotic scope, but sometimes i get this tought in my mind, is such a simple thing, we do it everyday, multiple times without ever realizing, so i decide to open this brainstorming thread about it. Everyone have their reason (including myself) on how we came to like the fetish, but have you stopped and wondered, why?

I have often wondered why and it might be different for different people. I can remember from a young age being fascinated by girls peeing and the naughtiness of them doing it where they are not supposed to has always done it for me.

Maybe it goes back deep into childhood to an age where we knew nothing about sex and associated the genitals solely with peeing, perhaps combined with a childish interest in the anatomical differences between girls and boys for some of us. From an early age this association of the sexual organs with peeing perhaps leads later to a sexual interest in peeing? Why this happens for just some of us and not everyone is a bit difficult to understand, but maybe is associated with early experiences of seeing others peeing and being interested in that at the time? Just an idea. Thing is though I feel sure that my interest in peeing was always there and needed no trigger, so maybe it just is the case that for some of us, this association of peeing with the sexual organs from the very day we are born just links peeing with sexuality for us psychologically. But how our brains are wired must be a part of it because clearly not everyone associates peeing with eroticism. Which is why most of us would never discuss our interest openly amongst friends and relatives and come to safe places like this instead.

Edited November 21, 2022 by steve25805

[Dr.P 1,474]

22 hours ago, Carb0nBased said:

I don't know how it was in the 70s and 80s, but from my own experiences I get the impression that women peeing openly in front of male friends without at least some intent of flirting/opening the door to sexual possibilities, especially one-on-one and without drinking being involved, is quite uncommon. The chance goes up at parties/"nights on the town" and in groups. In other words, in a mixed-gender group outdoors where considerable drinking is taking place, some of women's shyness about peeing disappears--particularly when it's dark enough to not see much of anything--though even then in my own experience I've mostly observed women disappearing at least a bit out of view, even if they found little need to hide why they were doing it. A similar thing goes for women asking guy friends to "stand guard" while they go in the bushes, still expecting the guy not to look, that doesn't imply any sexual interest. What's really rare is just a guy being over a girl's house chatting or playing video games or whatever and she uses the bathroom without closing the door, or even further does something to encourage him to come closer and/or stand where he can see anything.

I haven't had any really close completely platonic relationships with women though--so I don't know whether there are some pure friendships where women do pee openly in front of guys but would still be weirded out if the guy showed interest in what she was doing.

First of all, I had the last experience you describe with a long time Platonic female friend, in my late teens, or early twenties. I had "stood guard" for her numerous times, outside empty public bathrooms, late at night, during our teenage years. She was definitely weirded out, just at my revelation of interest in her peeing, but the friendship survived.

I think your general observations are spot on, and they were mostly true, in the 70s and 80s, also, including the influence of drinking on inhibitions. Although most of my encounters with "Ellie" included alcohol, the very first one did not, and we were indoors, and alone. We worked for the same company, and were on a business trip together, and were sharing a room, without the management being aware of our relationship. On our very first night together, we were cold sober, about to leave for dinner, standing together between the bathroom door and the room door, talking about the restaurant we had chosen, and how far it was from the motel. She asked me how much time it would take to get there. "About a half hour," I said. She turned to me, took my hands in hers, looked deeply into my eyes and said, "I have to "go" before we leave, OK?" Without waiting for my answer, she slipped into the bathroom, moving the door slightly, to a half-closed position, but still open about a foot, on the knob side. She left it there, as if it didn't really matter to her ,since she was just following a social protocol. "Go ahead, get comfortable," I said, trying to sound as casual and relaxed as possible.

Seeing the half-open door, I really wanted to watch her pee. But I knew that at this delicate point in the relationship, I didn't dare just walk in on her, or stand in the open doorway and watch her, where she could see me. To do so could be considered extremely rude, possibly frightening or disgusting to her, thereby ruining what could be a great few days together.  So I moved silently to a point near the door, where I could see through the open space between the hinge and the jamb. I had a perfect right side and partial front view of her sitting on the toilet, short skirt gathered up around her waist, out of the way, panties below her knees, with her beautiful, smooth bare thighs fully exposed and separated comfortably, about 3 or 4 inches apart at her knees, and open all the way up, totally relaxed. She had a length of toilet paper draped carefully over her left thigh, which she folded slowly and neatly, while she peed. I could not see her pussy or her stream at this angle, but could hear everything extremely well. This would have to do.

Although she sat in a very relaxed, nonchalant fashion, and she hadn't seemed desperate when she told me she had to "go," her stream gushed and hissed forcefully into the bowl, stopping and re-starting three times, before slowing to a trickle and stopping, finally. Although I had heard gallons of female pee, growing up with a mother and three younger sisters, in a small house, I had never heard anything like this. The gushing and hissing were a fantastic turn-on, and the stopping and starting were incredibly exciting, nearly driving me over the edge! When she finally finished, I wanted to watch her wipe, but I quickly came to my senses and moved discretely away from my vantage point, realizing that if she looked up and caught me too close to the door, it would give the game away, and all could be lost. So I moved quickly and quietly to the opposite end of the room, near the windows, where my location would not indicate any interest in her bathroom activities. She emerged from the bathroom after a few minutes, still smoothing her skirt, and checking her legs in the mirror. She looked for me first in my former position near the bathroom door, but finally found me across the room, near the windows. She looked a little  puzzled at my location, but didn't say anything.

For the next 10 years of our off and on relationship, during which we commonly drank a lot, at "happy hour," she repeated this essential behavior with me, at her house.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Dr.P
Clarification of situation.

[Dr.P 1,474]

19 hours ago, Takashi96 said:

It's hard to say. I agree, peeing openly can be a form of flirtation or teasing. But that's not always an invitation to something physical or romantic. Some people just like to flirt. I suppose it's an ego boost for them. In the case of @Dr.P and "Ellie," I agree with his platonic female friends. It does sound like she was testing his interest in those moments. But then they were also in a long term friends with benefits relationship. And those tend to be filled with acts of ambiguous unspoken erotic and sensual communication, where it's hard to know what the hell the other person really wants?

Alcohol is a huge factor in lowering inhibitions. And was a factor in the majority of situations where platonic female friends peed casually in my presence. But I also have platonic female friends who pee in front of me sober, who have no intention of getting together with me in a sexual or romantic way. And probably would be weirded out if I showed a sexual interest in their peeing. But in those cases, they're very close, decade plus friendships, where I barely even register as male to them. I think that is pretty rare.  

But I think there's also a generational component. Girls under 30 pee more openly than I've ever seen in previous generations. And there is, within a certain subculture of gen z, a concerted effort to get rid of conventional gender divisions like segregated restrooms. 

I agree with your assessment of my relationship with "Ellie," including some confusion over what we both wanted from the relationship. And your comments on the influence of alcohol on inhibitions are spot on, and generally applied to "Ellie" and me, over most of our relationship, with the exception of our first encounter, described in my reply to CarbOnBased, above.

Your comments on the generational component are fascinating, to me. It seemed to me that my mother's generation, who lived through two World Wars, were secretive, when talking about peeing, and developed extremely modest peeing styles, sitting with thighs pressed tightly together, etc., but some of them were very relaxed about leaving doors partially or totally open. Things seemed to get more repressive, during the 50's and early 60's, among women who were in their 20's to 40's, when many of them closed and locked bathroom doors, and ran tap water to cover their hisses and tinkles. The "sexual revolution" of the late 60's, 70's and 80's didn't change things much, with respect to peeing. Women would share intimate details about their sexual desires, their orgasms, and even their periods, but would get evasive and change the subject, when their peeing was mentioned. I notice that has changed a lot, in recent decades, for most age groups, with advertisements for bladder leak underwear on TV, etc. Many of these are aimed at women who are well over 30, but I am encouraged by your assertion that girls under 30 pee more openly, now. I remember that "Ally McBeal" was the first and only (I think) mainstream TV show which featured a restroom without gender segregation, which is a hot button political issue, in the present time, in some parts of the country.      

Edited November 22, 2022 by Dr.P
Change verb for proper grammar.

[Takashi96 1,080]

8 hours ago, Dr.P said:

I agree with your assessment of my relationship with "Ellie," including some confusion over what we both wanted from the relationship. And your comments on the influence of alcohol on inhibitions are spot on, and generally applied to "Ellie" and me, over most of our relationship, with the exception of our first encounter, described in my reply to CarbOnBased, above.

Your comments on the generational component are fascinating, to me. It seemed to me that my mother's generation, who lived through two World Wars, were secretive, when talking about peeing, and developed extremely modest peeing styles, sitting with thighs pressed tightly together, etc., but some of them were very relaxed about leaving doors partially or totally open. Things seemed to get more repressive, during the 50's and early 60's, among women who were in their 20's to 40's, when many of them closed and locked bathroom doors, and ran tap water to cover their hisses and tinkles. The "sexual revolution" of the late 60's, 70's and 80's didn't change things much, with respect to peeing. Women would share intimate details about their sexual desires, their orgasms, and even their periods, but would get evasive and change the subject, when their peeing was mentioned. I notice that has changed a lot, in recent decades, for most age groups, with advertisements for bladder leak underwear on TV, etc. Many of these are aimed at women who are well over 30, but I am encouraged by your assertion that girls under 30 pee more openly, now. I remember that "Ally McBeal" was the first and only (I think) mainstream TV show which featured a restroom without gender segregation, which is a hot button political issue, in the present time, in some parts of the country.      

From what I've noticed, every decade women get less self conscious about peeing openly. I don't remember a lot of open peeing during the 90s. But then in the early 00's I started noticing younger women making less effort to conceal themselves when peeing outside of clubs, bars, parking lots, parties, etc. And I swear about every two years I saw it more often. I'm pretty sure alcohol was involved in every situation, but they weren't sloppy drunk. The attitude I picked up was that it was a non-issue. For example, maybe ten years ago? I was at a party and went to pee behind a detached garage. It was during the summer, some time between 8 and 9, so still fairly light out. About ten seconds after I started peeing, this girl comes walking around the corner from the opposite side of the garage. She sees me immediately, and instead of going behind one of the many large trees not much farther off, she says "guess, this must be the spot?" like another guy would. Then proceeded to pop a squat within roughly 6 feet of me. This caused my stream to slow down considerably, but luckily I managed to keep a continuous release through nearly full wood. She finished before me, pulled up her pants and went "damn dude, you must've really had to go." And proceeded on her merry way. I had similar incidents to that with different complete strangers, perhaps once a year between 2010 and 2018 (when I quit drinking regularly). All involving girls who were by my best estimate under 30. 

I think it has a lot to do with the acceleration of culture and people being less uptight about private functions. These women aren't really exposing much beyond side butt and maybe a split second of bush. It's preferable to standing in a line for fifteen uncomfortable minutes. Women in past decades were judged for so much dumb shit. They were probably too self conscious to risk that kind of scrutiny? 

And then two years ago, during those BLM protests, I kept reading about, and seeing videos, of young women peeing in defiance of the authorities. Totally unselfconscious about exposing themselves, just like the guys on scene doing the same thing. The impression I get, is that they're not going to let anatomy prevent them from expressing themselves through urination like their male co-rioters. And if you're offended? fuck off, this is how women piss. I think it's awesome and inspiring (and not just because it turns me on).

I do remember the unisex restrooms in Alley McBeal back in the 90s. I think that might have been based on a real life corporate trend that never really took off. But nowadays there are a lot of college aged kids with this whole, "screw gender expectations" philosophy, trying to make non-binary peeing spaces a thing. Which I guess isn't that far off conceptually from corporate unisex restrooms.  

Edited November 22, 2022 by Takashi96
Clarity

[Dr.P 1,474]

12 hours ago, Takashi96 said:

From what I've noticed, every decade women get less self conscious about peeing openly. I don't remember a lot of open peeing during the 90s. But then in the early 00's I started noticing younger women making less effort to conceal themselves when peeing outside of clubs, bars, parking lots, parties, etc. And I swear about every two years I saw it more often. I'm pretty sure alcohol was involved in every situation, but they weren't sloppy drunk. The attitude I picked up was that it was a non-issue. For example, maybe ten years ago? I was at a party and went to pee behind a detached garage. It was during the summer, some time between 8 and 9, so still fairly light out. About ten seconds after I started peeing, this girl comes walking around the corner from the opposite side of the garage. She sees me immediately, and instead of going behind one of the many large trees not much farther off, she says "guess, this must be the spot?" like another guy would. Then proceeded to pop a squat within roughly 6 feet of me. This caused my stream to slow down considerably, but luckily I managed to keep a continuous release through nearly full wood. She finished before me, pulled up her pants and went "damn dude, you must've really had to go." And proceeded on her merry way. I had similar incidents to that with different complete strangers, perhaps once a year between 2010 and 2018 (when I quit drinking regularly). All involving girls who were by my best estimate under 30. 

Great, very believable story, and good social observations! Thanks for sharing.

I think it has a lot to do with the acceleration of culture and people being less uptight about private functions. These women aren't really exposing much beyond side butt and maybe a split second of bush. It's preferable to standing in a line for fifteen uncomfortable minutes. Women in past decades were judged for so much dumb shit. They were probably too self conscious to risk that kind of scrutiny?

I totally agree! Women in past decades were subjected to an incredible amount of dumb shit, and intense shaming for their natural anatomies and bodily functions. They were told that their urination was ugly, dirty, shameful, and a huge turn-Off to men, OR they were told that their urination was a huge turn-On to men, likely to result in instant rape, or worse. They couldn't get a break. They were judged to be in the wrong, either way. They were either disgusting and filthy, or flaming temptresses, causing men to lose control, a very old idea, in Western cultures. So I believe that confusing situation led to some of the more extreme adaptive behaviors that many women resorted to, running tap water to cover sound, etc. 

And then two years ago, during those BLM protests, I kept reading about, and seeing videos, of young women peeing in defiance of the authorities. Totally unselfconscious about exposing themselves, just like the guys on scene doing the same thing. The impression I get, is that they're not going to let anatomy prevent them from expressing themselves through urination like their male co-rioters. And if you're offended? fuck off, this is how women piss. I think it's awesome and inspiring (and not just because it turns me on).

I totally agree with you. It is awesome and inspiring.

I do remember the unisex restrooms in Alley McBeal back in the 90s. I think that might have been based on a real life corporate trend that never really took off. But nowadays there are a lot of college aged kids with this whole, "screw gender expectations" philosophy, trying to make non-binary peeing spaces a thing. Which I guess isn't that far off conceptually from corporate unisex restrooms.

That's encouraging. I forgot to mention another corporate experiment, which took place in the late 90's or early 00's, and was not so encouraging. Penthouse magazine began to publish photos of the pet of the month peeing. I was delighted, of course, but many MEN were not, and cancelled their subscriptions, etc. So the experiment was discontinued, in less than a year.  Apparently, there were a lot of men who disliked female urination, either due to preconditioning and social pressure, or genuine personal disgust. Hard to tell which. I wonder how the same experiment would work out, today, given all that is available online, as well as the "screw gender expectations" philosophy? 

  

 

[Takashi96 1,080]

3 hours ago, Dr.P said:

 

I could go on at length about my observations and theories, but I think we should start another thread first. We've kind of gone off the rails as far as the original topic goes. 

[kitty and mimi 127]

On 11/12/2022 at 6:14 PM, Dr.P said:

I am fairly sure that this fetish is rooted in childhood experiences. It certainly was, for me. But in my case, it started very early, like around 2 1/2 years old, literally at my mother's knee, so I often wonder if genetic predisposition is also a factor. I wouldn't be surprised by that.

it is very common and normal for children from three to six years old to be interested in urination. I think this can be explained  easily and accurately by using Freudian psychology. Urination is actually one of most primitive form of sexual expression in human.I don't consider this to be genetic, because most people at least had this kind of feeling at certain age, at least at unconscious level. this kind of feeling usually began around 3 years old, and it being repressed around six to seven years old,but it remain in a unconscious state. most adults who without urination fetish are actually suppressed this kind of feeling into unconscious state. According to Sigmund Fred, most forms of body relieve can involve some kind of sexual pleasure, including urination,defecation and male ejaculation. it is obvious for adult male that ejaculation will lead to sexual pleasure, but before this even happen for the first time, people experience difference stage of sexual development when they were growing up as adults. different kind of bathroom experience and different pleasure center of bodies part in different stage of sexual development reflect gender identity and relationship. before a baby reach one years old(first stage), his or her pleasure center is around the mouth. the babies suck milk from their mother's breast in order to fell satisfy.

From one to three years old(second stage), when the children began their potty training,the pleasure center of children will change from mouth to anus, in order to be successful in potty training. this is the first time when a human associate toilet with bodily pleasure, at least in a subconscious level.

From three to six years old(third stage), when the children go to kindergarten, they discover a concept of gender identity, when children of different gender play together in a mix gender environment. in Eastern Asian countries, bathroom in kindergarten tend to be mixed gender with open toilets. during urination,boys would stand in one row in front of a open male urinal, while girls will squat or sit in another row.two gender groups can see each other urinating in different posture. Children began to discover that people of their opposite sex pee in different posture. the children at that time still have no concept of sexuality and reproduction, they feel curious about body difference between genders. they want to learn more. at that time, their pleasure center will change from anus to genital. in this stage, urination fetish is most common among children, because they want to explore more about their gender identity.

from seven to twelve years old (the fourth stage), when children go to elementary school, they began to identify their own genders. boys will identify themselves as boys, girls will identify themselves as girls. children will develop their hobby or interest of their own genders group. they mainly play with the members of their own gender group. boys and girls don't usually mix with each other at that stage. they joint their own gender group, in order to develop same interest and imitate each other in a single gender environment. at that stage, all kind of sexual pleasure (including fetish associate with toilet and urination)will be suppressed into unconscious level, or will redirect to same sex friendship. begging at first grade in elementary school,( at least in china and Hong Kong), bathroom will no longer be mix gender. the bathroom in elementary school are gender segregation,while they are open bathroom in mainland china,boys and girls go to separate bathroom. going to bathroom to pee together no longer mean explore one's gender identity,but it re enforce one's gender identity. when going to pee in a open bathroom in gender segregation environment, boys and girls cannot see each other peeing. everyone see each other stand to pee in boy's room, while every one see each other squat to pee in girl's room. in each side of the bathroom,everyone pee in a same position, which re enforce gender identity.

however, not everyone had experienced the fourth stage of sexual development. many people who have urination fetish as adults might have never even experience to fourth stage at all. Some children who are 8 years old or older still explore their gender identity are actually still stay in the third stage. this kind of mental development delay is common among kids with autism/  asperger syndrome. although autism is not really a mental disease(might not even be a real disability, for those who with high function autism, because those people are very intelligent in some areas), it is a syndrome that lead to mental development delay and difficulty to relate to others socially. some people have never even reach the fourth stage even after they became adult. Austic  people who stay in the third stage did not redirect their energy from  curiosity to body of opposite sex to same sex friendship. in most of time,this just lead to urination fetish,but in some more extreme cases, it lead to voyeurism. statistically speaking, those who committed voyeur crime are almost always men(autism is associate with hyper masculinity of the brain. Most children who  diagnosis with autism are boys. very few are girls. ) most men who committed voyeur crimes have difficulty to interact with other people. they are less likely to be interested in marriage or long term relationship. most of them have no same sex friends and had no interest in making same sex friends.

some survey show that people have more autistic traits are correlate to have fetish or voyeuristic behavior, while people with more neurotypical traits are less likely to have fetish or voyeuristic behavior.

some people in this forum said that women are less likely to have pee fetish or less likely express their fetish openly,but I think this is not entirely true. my theory is that people with more characteristic of so call "extreme male brain" will more likely have pee fetish or express their fetish. this does not mean that people with less masculine brain don't have pee fetish, but  people with more neurotypical traits are better at repressed the kind of sexual expression that are consider to be socially unacceptable,or redirect their sexual desire in more acceptable way through friendship or relationship. a extreme masculine brain can be associate with incapability of redirect one's sexual energy from opposite sex attraction to same sex friendship.

the fifth stage is also the final stage of sexual development. this happen puberty, beginning at middle school or high school year, the boys and girls will mixed and play with each other again, but this time, they seek for a more developed form of relationship, unlike those who have developmental delay, still stay in the third stage. in the fifth stage, genital become the pleasure center again, but this time, the main function that genital play in the fifth stage is not about bathroom or urination, if is more about reproduction than urination. people at that stage will find partners in order to prepare for marriage and have  offspring in future, because this is what the society want them to do. people will keep suppressing their interest in urination in a subconscious level, because it is form  of sexual expression that is socially unacceptable, unlike have sex with their partners and have babies, which is more socially acceptable, or even encouraged.

during the middle school or high school years, girls are more likely go to bathroom together while boys go to bathroom alone. this normal even keep into adulthood when women go to bathroom in group, while men go to bathroom alone. it seem that women are better at redirect their primitive sexual desire which is socially less acceptable to a more acceptable way through friendship or relationship. since people still subconsciously being interested in urination of opposite sex, but unlike men who try to satisfy this kind of desire through fetish or voyeurism, women on the other hand, will turned their attention from people of opposite sex to the people of same sex. women go to bathroom with same sex friends is a way to redirect this kind of desire to to the people of the same sex which is more socially acceptable.

if what Sigmund Freud said was true that urination is one of primitive form of sexual expression which people can feel pleasure while relieving, I think it will make more sense that people will subconsciously feel there is need for sexually relieving when their bladder is full. when people peeing together while seeing each other and socialize with each other, there might be imply a kind of sexual relationship in a unconscious level bond them together, no matter they were same sex or opposite sex. when a one is peeing with someone he or she like, one would feel more pleasure to pee just like having sex with another person unconsciously, on the other hand, if one is peeing with a person he or she does not like, one will feel anxiety and disgusting. in modern bathroom situation, when people have full bladder and need to go to public bathroom, many of them unconsciously bring instinct of mating strategy into a gender segregation bathroom, which have no people of opposite sex exist. in such single gender environment, people might feel jealous of each other or compete with each other in a unconscious state.men might unconsciously pee louder to compete with other men to see who pee the loudest. other men might compete to see who have larger penis subconsciously. this mostly happen in men's room. but some time, in Chinese women's room with open squat toilets, women might compete with each other to see who pee furthest while squat to pee on squat toilet. other women might compete to see who have more beautiful leg, or body shape.

through history, people or animals of the same species of same sex compete with each other, in order to attract the opposite sex of the same species for the chance of mating. even today, in a gender segregation bathroom environment, people still bring this kind of mating strategy into a bathroom that no people of opposite sex present.

in such bathroom situation, women are more skillful than men to redirect this kind of sexual energy to a direction of same sex friendship rather than opposite sex relationship, through better emotion and social skill, by going to bathroom with same sex friends, to turn their attention from men to other women,to re enforce their gender identity by using their sexual energy to build their same sex community.

I think people with more neurotypical traits are more likely to go to bathroom together with people of the same sex, and  less likely to have urination fetish, or express their fetish openly, because their emotion or social skill lead their sexual desire to different direction. like other forms of body relieving, urination can lead to sexual pleasure,like a mild form of ejaculation. when some people have full bladder,they may subconsciously find way to release sexual energy.when some people feel less satisfy to release this kind of energy individually, this kind of energy kind use to build relationship when people pee with others who they like and expose their penis or lower body parts to each other which are not normally been seen by other people. in modern public bathroom in a gender segregation environment, it is socially unacceptable for men and women pee together, therefore, some people will turn their attention from people of the opposite sex to the people of same sex, to go to bathroom with same sex friends,and focus on their gender side of the bathroom rather than another side of the bathroom. to redirect their sexual energy from opposite sex relationship to build same sex friendship in a more socially acceptable way. going to bathroom with same sex friends can be can suppressed form of sexual expression associate with urination fetish. people who have more extreme masculine brain, will tend to seek more extreme way to release this kind of sexual energy. the most extreme form of expression of urination fetish is voyeurism. women in general are more likely than men to meet the social expectation when it came to sexual expression. this maybe because of the different between male and female brain. this maybe the reason why women's bathroom became the community center of women. by peeing together, women can redirect their sexual energy to build their friendship. rather than spend such energy on their boyfriend or husband who pee on the other side of the bathroom who they cannot meet at that moment,so their sexual energy will not be wasted. men on the other side of the bathroom, are less capable of redirecting this kind of sexual energy, while releasing such energy in men's room,they may subconsciously think about their wife,or girlfriend, or other women on the other side of the bathroom. it became pee fetish in mild form. in the most extreme form of pee fetish, it became voyeurism. this can also explain why more men express their pee fetish than women, since men don't usually go to bathroom with same sex friends and tend to keep distance from other men while using urinals, and less likely to redirect the sexual energy that associate with urination. men in general will more likely recognize  other men as competitors  rather than friends in bathroom in a unconscious level. just like men in history in ancient time who  fought each other to dead in order to win the women. although there is no women in men's room, and people of opposite sex cannot meet each other in public bathroom, but when people have full bladder,which make them feel sexual energy that they need to release, they will unconsciously re enact such primitive respond and bring such mating strategy into a gender segregation bathroom, especially, when people of the same sex need to expose their body to each other (male urinals in men's room or open squat toilets in Chinese women's room), seeing other people of same sex peeing, and knowing that one's self is exposed too. only those who can redirect such sexual energy from the mentality of competing for mates to same sex friendship will make the experience different. generally, women are more capable of this than men. Neurotypical people are more capable of this than autistic people. therefore, the way women use to redirect this kind of primitive instinct is to having relationship with each other , rather than compete against each other for a mate that not even exist inside women's room.

Edited July 16, 2023 by kitty and mimi

[Simpfan4 174]

I have no idea how my experiences became arousing. If anyone remembers what I wrote when I was a member here before, my mother bore 7 children and must have had a weak bladder or pelvic floor. One night I woke up to hear her pissing in the basin of my potty chair. I guess that's where I got the idea of "naughty peeing" and wanted to do it myself. I see it as a passive-aggressive response to what I perceived my mother had done to me. Aside from an old crib mattress in our attic loft, I never really got to try it. I was the last child born, so I don't know why it had been kept. But I did piss on it occasionally. We didn't have an indoor bathroom so that led to outdoor pee experimentation too. And I think I usually peed in the (galvanized) tub when taking baths. When I was 17, I met the guy who would become my first husband. I wanted to try pee things and he was willing to indulge me. That was the first time I saw a man pee, and I got to hold and aim his cock. I think one of my favorite things was rubbing his cock on my clit while one or both of us peed. I did pee sexual activities while I was still a virgin. Then much later, we added pee after intercourse. I just couldn't get enough of it. The only part I disliked was the taste of pee. 

Genetics? I have a hard time with that one. Like something freaky coming from my ancestors? I really can't imagine it, other than the days of chamber pots, and when urine was used for practical purposes.