James Joyce

[PuddingPipeTree 23]

So, it's no secret that James Joyce was a kinky man - the letters he sent to his wife are most known for the "arse full of farts" quote and more of that ilk, but there's some mention of pee as well, inbetween the scatological (which I'd rather disregard).

In any case, the letters are really just vulgar. Nothing wrong with that, of course - the man was just trying to talk dirty to his wife, not write a best seller. But apparently the man's interests are also present in his Ulysses, and I suppose I'm interested in the way he describes peeing, if he writes about it in a way that only writers can. Apparently the final chapter is written entirely in a stream-of-consciousness style (pun sort of intended), from the perspective of a character modeled after his wife, with several references to urination.

So uhhh. I'm wondering if anyone else is interested in this kind of thing - either the man himself and his fetishism, or the way that pee is described in literature. Joyce might have been a member here, had he still lived. Either way, I've found a book to read, and I'll be reporting my findings. Maybe some of the story writers here will be interested? 😛

[Gotah 2,381]

I once read an extract from Dante's Divine Comedy (italy's probably most important piece of literature) and during his trip through hell he recieved a golden shower from a woman if I remember correctly. He described that moment in such a noble, poetic and beautiful way, it was so much fun to read and now I'm convinced that Dante has had a pee fetish. You can't write about getting a golden shower in such a passionate way without feeling at least a bit of excitement

[PuddingPipeTree 23]

Oohh, that's incredible, I'd love to read an excerpt from that. Did you read that in English or in the original language?

I already found the first reference to pee in Ulysses, chapter 1:

 

Haines sat down to pour out the tea.

— I'm giving you two lumps each, he said. But, I say, Mulligan, you do make strong tea, don't you?

Buck Mulligan, hewing thick slices from the loaf, said in an old woman's wheedling voice:

— When I makes tea I makes tea, as old mother Grogan said. And when I makes water I makes water.

— By Jove, it is tea, Haines said.

Buck Mulligan went on hewing and wheedling:

— So I do, Mrs Cahill, says she. Begob, ma'am, says Mrs Cahill, God send you don't make them in the one pot.

 

Followed shortly with some reference to a song about peeing, where the last line is sadly left to the imagination:

 

— I fancy, Stephen said as he ate, [...] Mother Grogan was, one imagines, a kinswoman of Mary Ann.

[...]

—  For old Mary Ann
She doesn't care a damn.
But, hising up her petticoats...

He crammed his mouth with fry and munched and droned.

 

 

Bit of a crass joke, rather than erotic, but perhaps it can inspire nonetheless 😛

 

And later on, another silly song about Jesus making wine from water, and... vice versa. Not written by Joyce himself, but by his friend Oliver St. John Gogarty, after whom the character Buck "Malachi" Mulligan is modeled.

—  I'm the queerest young fellow that ever you heard.
My mother's a jew, my father's a bird.
With Joseph the joiner I cannot agree.
So here's to disciples and Calvary.

[...]

—  If anyone thinks that I amn't divine
He'll get no free drinks when I'm making the wine
But have to drink water and wish it were plain
That I make when the wine becomes water again.

Edited July 29, 2020 by PuddingPipeTree
James Joyce writes about pee more frequently than I expected

[oliver2 4,418]

1 hour ago, PuddingPipeTree said:

So, it's no secret that James Joyce was a kinky man - the letters he sent to his wife are most known for the "arse full of farts" quote and more of that ilk, but there's some mention of pee as well, inbetween the scatological (which I'd rather disregard).

In any case, the letters are really just vulgar. Nothing wrong with that, of course - the man was just trying to talk dirty to his wife, not write a best seller. But apparently the man's interests are also present in his Ulysses, and I suppose I'm interested in the way he describes peeing, if he writes about it in a way that only writers can. Apparently the final chapter is written entirely in a stream-of-consciousness style (pun sort of intended), from the perspective of a character modeled after his wife, with several references to urination.

So uhhh. I'm wondering if anyone else is interested in this kind of thing - either the man himself and his fetishism, or the way that pee is described in literature. Joyce might have been a member here, had he still lived. Either way, I've found a book to read, and I'll be reporting my findings. Maybe some of the story writers here will be interested? 😛

In Samuel Taylor Coleridge’s “Kubla Khan”, the ground... ejaculates??

And from this chasm, with ceaseless turmoil seething,

As if this earth in fast thick pants were breathing,

A mighty fountain momently was forced:

Amid whose swift half-intermitted burst

Huge fragments vaulted like rebounding hail,

Or chaffy grain beneath the thresher’s flail:

And mid these dancing rocks at once and ever

It flung up momently the sacred river.

[PuddingPipeTree 23]

Here we have a scene of Stephen Dedalus urinating in the sea. He does not describe his own urination but rather the sea, imagining the seaweed as the lifted clothes of women, echoing the crass song of Mary Ann from my previous post.

In long lassoes from the Cock lake the water flowed full, covering greengoldenly lagoons of sand, rising, flowing. My ashplant will float away. I shall wait. No, they will pass on, passing, chafing against the low rocks, swirling, passing. Better get this job over quick. Listen: a fourworded wavespeech: seesoo, hrss, rsseeiss, ooos. Vehement breath of waters amid seasnakes, rearing horses, rocks. In cups of rocks it slops: flop, slop, slap: bounded in barrels. And, spent, its speech ceases. It flows purling, widely flowing, floating foampool, flower unfurling.

Under the upswelling tide he saw the writhing weeds lift languidly and sway reluctant arms, hising up their petticoats, in whispering water swaying and upturning coy silver fronds. Day by day: night by night: lifted, flooded and let fall. Lord, they are weary; and, whispered to, they sigh. Saint Ambrose heard it, sigh of leaves and waves, waiting, awaiting the fullness of their times, diebus ac noctibus iniurias patiens ingemiscit. To no end gathered; vainly then released, forth flowing, wending back: loom of the moon. Weary too in sight of lovers, lascivious men, a naked woman shining in her courts, she draws a toil of waters.

The "Cock lake" is a double entendre - it is another name for the Cockle lake, but the "long lassoes" could also describe Stephen's own "lake".

This is exactly the kind of beautiful language I was hoping to find 🙂

[PuddingPipeTree 23]

Mr Leopold Bloom ate with relish the inner organs of beasts and fowls. He liked thick giblet soup, nutty gizzards, a stuffed roast heart, liverslices fried with crustcrumbs, fried hencods' roes. Most of all he liked grilled mutton kidneys which gave to his palate a fine tang of faintly scented urine.

Mr. Bloom knows the finer delicacies in life I suppose.

[greedyneedygirl 4,156]

What an interesting thread. I always look for descriptive prose on the subject of urine...'a fine tang of faintly scented urine'. What a lovely word 'Tang' is...associated with the olfactory senses, but also of taste. How would one describe the scent of pee once it has dried on a pair of panties? 

[pee4u 45]

yes Gotah, can you remember in which chapter of the Divine Comedy is the golden shower? Like Joyce, but to a lesser extent, Dante was not afraid of using what could be considered vulgar talk, when appropriate. In a famous passage for instance, the favourite one of most school children reading the opus, one of the devils summons his mates by "making his arse into a trumpet ( ed elli avea del cul fatto trombetta)"

[Gotah 2,381]

On 7/29/2020 at 10:27 PM, PuddingPipeTree said:

Did you read that in English or in the original language?

Luckily I can speak italian so I read the original version, which was sometimes a bit hard to understand since it was written during the 16th century and thus the language is very old fashioned, beautiful nontheless.

6 hours ago, pee4u said:

yes Gotah, can you remember in which chapter of the Divine Comedy is the golden shower?

No idea. It was somewhere in the first book but no clue where exactly

[oliver2 4,418]

On 7/30/2020 at 11:32 AM, PuddingPipeTree said:

Here we have a scene of Stephen Dedalus urinating in the sea. He does not describe his own urination but rather the sea, imagining the seaweed as the lifted clothes of women, echoing the crass song of Mary Ann from my previous post.In long lassoes from the Cock lake the water flowed full, covering greengoldenly lagoons of sand, rising, flowing. My ashplant will float away. I shall wait. ...

(Imagines an eggplant floating into the sky like a bijoux zeppelin)

Beautiful prose but I have no idea what is happening #philistine

[pee4u 45]

Ok Gotah, I will have to reread the whole Inferno to find the episode. But please note that the Commedia was written between the 13th and 14th centuries, Dante died in 1321

[Gotah 2,381]

20 hours ago, pee4u said:

Ok Gotah, I will have to reread the whole Inferno to find the episode. But please note that the Commedia was written between the 13th and 14th centuries, Dante died in 1321

Damn it! I knew I got the date wrong haha

Thanks for pointing that out!

 

Btw I found the excerpt I was talking about. I'll post it here just in case some italians (or italian speakers) want to read it ... For the non speakers I can try my best to translate it if you would like me to 🙂

Virgilio s'era da poco appartato,
e con una dannata concupiva beato,
quando decisi di prender la via,
che si parò avanti alla vista mia
creatura bellissima dal viso laudato.

Contemplai il suo volto così giovin e grazioso,
il suo seno abbondante nel vestito sontuoso,
e le chiesi com'è che donna di cotanta bellezza,
comprometta l'essenza di quella freschezza,
condannata a viver in un posto si' odioso!

"In vita amavo il membro dell’adorato uomo,
ma non fu esso a condurmi qui, mio caro Sommo,
ciò che mi condannò alle roventi rogge,
fu l’insano amor per le dorate piogge,
e il loro getto dal sapor si bono!"

Mi destò pensier ciò che ascoltai,
che son “le dorate piogge?”, tosto pensai,
e da quando la pioggia cada dorata, in primo luogo,
e come mai essa condanni a codesto rogo,
perché che la pioggia sia peccato non s’è udito mai!

Mi rivolse allor uno sguardo lunare,
“Tu non comprendi il senso del mio favellare,
ciò di cui io ti dissi nel mentre,
è il giallo frutto dell’umano ventre,
quella che urina si suole chiamare”!

Rimasi stupito e sconvolto al temp stesso,
“O fanciulla tu amavi lo sgorgare dall’umano sesso,
del fluido biondo che si lancia e che striscia,
e che dalle mie parti si chiama anche piscia,
adesso comprendo il reato commesso!”

“Non parlar di reato, ti prego, Poeta,
benché il giallo frutto fu nella mia dieta,
con quotidiana bevuta, con docce e passione,
sicché io rispetti una diversa opinione,
non credo per ciò meritar l’infernal meta!
E’ vero, lo so, e non posso negarmi,
che nel dorato fluido adoravo annegarmi,
e il caldo sapor delle gialle fontane,
con gioia imbrattava le mie nobil sottane,
perchè con l’urina solevo lavarmi!
Ma merito forse una simil condanna,
per il sol fatto d’aver preso la canna,
e con stile vorace e con l’aria mai sazia,
ho preferito il piscio al nettar d’Alsazia,
il primo per me davvero una manna?
Ti scongiuro per questo, mio caro Dante,
regala a quest’anima un dono importante,
abbassa il calzone e disvela il pisello,
e fa che da esso ne sgorghi un ruscello,
affinché io lo raccolga intenso e abbondante!"

Di fronte alla vista di cotanta bellezza,
e di quanto i suoi occhi tradivan tristezza,
calai le braghe ed esposi il pennello,
duro e corposo come osso d'agnello,
e iniziai a inondarla di candida brezza.

Fluiva dorata sul suo capo moro,
scendeva sul viso col colore dell'oro,
insinuandosi poi con bagnata malizia,
nel seno abbondante di beata delizia,
per rendere umido ogni suo poro!

Io della ragione avea perso ogni indizio,
gridò: "adesso sdraiati mio caro novizio"
e mostrando la vulva alzando la veste,
mi riversò addosso il liquid celeste,
che mi entrò anche in bocca condannandomi al vizio.

Arrivò poi Virgilio che rimase stupito,
di veder la scena da cui venne rapito,
fu allora che disse alla bella dannata,
regala anche a me una bionda bagnata,
che rimarrà poi segreto intradito!

La giovane bella così all'improvviso,
risvuotò la vescica nel pien del suo viso,
lui rovinò a terra contento e ammaliato
urlando a gran voce assai affascinato,
"codesto non è l'inferno è il paradiso!"

[nopjans 1,178]

I will admit that Joyce has never done anything for me, but I do appreciate the discussion of pee content in literature. Gotah, I would appreciate a translation of Dante when you have a chance. I ran it through Google Translate, but that's always a bit rough.

[Gotah 2,381]

10 hours ago, nopjans said:

Gotah, I would appreciate a translation of Dante when you have a chance. I ran it through Google Translate, but that's always a bit rough.

Alright! I can try to translate it but there's no way I can capture the beauty of Dante's poetry with my limited english vocabulary. It's going to be a very dry and superficial translation😅

 

Virgilio (*Dante's guide through hell) just secluded himself,
and he was blissfuly 'flirting' with a damned soul,
I decided to go my way
as I saw in front of my vision
a beautiful creature with a blessed face.

I was contemplating her face so young and graceful,
her ample bosom inside a magnificent dress,
I asked her how a woman of beauty,
was damned to live in such horrible place.

"In life I loved a man (...),
but it wasn't he who brought me here, 
what damned me to this burning ditch,
was the insane love for the golden rains,
and their stream which tasted good!"

What I just heard aroused my thoughts,
what are the "golden rains"?, I thought,
and since when does the rain fall golden in the first place,
and how come she got damned to this ditch,
because I never heard the rain to be a sin!

She then turned her lunar gaze to me,
"You do not comprehend the meaning of my words,
what I was trying to tell you,
is the yellow fruit of the human belly,
also known as urine"!

I was amazed and shocked at the same time,
"Oh young maiden you loved the gush of the human sex,
the blonde fluid who buzzes (?) and slithers,
and where I come from gets called piss,
now I understand the felony you committed!"

"Don't talk about felony, I beg you, Poet,
for the yellow fruit was in my diet, with a daily drink, with showers and passion,
even though I respect a different opinion,
I don't think I deserved the hellish destination!
It's true, I know, and I can't deny it,
that I adored to drown myself in the golden fluid,
and the warm taste of the yellow fountains,
joyfully stained my noble skirts,
because with urine I used to wash myself!
But do I deserve such a conviction (...)?
*I wasn't able to translate the following three verses, sorry
I beg you for this, my dear Dante,
give this soul an important present,
drop your trousers and unveil your dick,
and make a stream flow out of it,
so that I collect it intense and abundant!"

In front of the sight of so much beauty,
and as much as her eyes betrayed sadness,
I lowered my pants and exposed my brush (penis),
hard and full-bodied like the bone of a lamb,
and I began to flood her in candid breeze.

It poured down in gold on her hazel head,
descending her face with golden color,
then sliding down with wet mischief,
in her abundant bosom of blissful delight,
giving moisture to every pore!

Of my mind I lost every clue,
she screamed: "now lay down my dear novice"
and showing her labia while raising the dress,
she poured on me the heavenly liquid,
which entered my mouth
condemning me to the vice.

Virgilio then arrived and remained astonished,
for watching the scene who took his attention,
it was then he told the condemned beauty,
give me aswell a golden shower,
which will remain an unbetrayed secret.

The young beauty then all of a sudden,
reemptied the bladder over his face,
he ruined the soil happy and bewitched
screaming with a loud voice rather fascinated
"This is not hell, this is heaven!"

 

There you go! Not a worthy translation but I think you'll get the point 🙂

[Yourinal 8]

Wow what a great thread. The Dante is insane. I like how he describes getting his dick out, and also hope he characterises the fetish of being pissed on as something you are damned to be hooked on forever once you get started.   @Gotah thank you for the excellent translation.

I’m curious to know  @PuddingPipeTree whether you continued with Ulysses past episode 4 and found any other interesting passages? 

[longbastard 234]

This is some fun Dante fan fiction, but you won’t find anything like that anywhere in Inferno. 

[Yourinal 8]

On 8/7/2020 at 6:24 PM, Gotah said:

Damn it! I knew I got the date wrong haha

Thanks for pointing that out!

 

Btw I found the excerpt I was talking about. I'll post it here just in case some italians (or italian speakers) want to read it ... For the non speakers I can try my best to translate it if you would like me to 🙂

Virgilio s'era da poco appartato,
e con una dannata concupiva beato,
quando decisi di prender la via,
che si parò avanti alla vista mia
creatura bellissima dal viso laudato.

Contemplai il suo volto così giovin e grazioso,
il suo seno abbondante nel vestito sontuoso,
e le chiesi com'è che donna di cotanta bellezza,
comprometta l'essenza di quella freschezza,
condannata a viver in un posto si' odioso!

"In vita amavo il membro dell’adorato uomo,
ma non fu esso a condurmi qui, mio caro Sommo,
ciò che mi condannò alle roventi rogge,
fu l’insano amor per le dorate piogge,
e il loro getto dal sapor si bono!"

Mi destò pensier ciò che ascoltai,
che son “le dorate piogge?”, tosto pensai,
e da quando la pioggia cada dorata, in primo luogo,
e come mai essa condanni a codesto rogo,
perché che la pioggia sia peccato non s’è udito mai!

Mi rivolse allor uno sguardo lunare,
“Tu non comprendi il senso del mio favellare,
ciò di cui io ti dissi nel mentre,
è il giallo frutto dell’umano ventre,
quella che urina si suole chiamare”!

Rimasi stupito e sconvolto al temp stesso,
“O fanciulla tu amavi lo sgorgare dall’umano sesso,
del fluido biondo che si lancia e che striscia,
e che dalle mie parti si chiama anche piscia,
adesso comprendo il reato commesso!”

“Non parlar di reato, ti prego, Poeta,
benché il giallo frutto fu nella mia dieta,
con quotidiana bevuta, con docce e passione,
sicché io rispetti una diversa opinione,
non credo per ciò meritar l’infernal meta!
E’ vero, lo so, e non posso negarmi,
che nel dorato fluido adoravo annegarmi,
e il caldo sapor delle gialle fontane,
con gioia imbrattava le mie nobil sottane,
perchè con l’urina solevo lavarmi!
Ma merito forse una simil condanna,
per il sol fatto d’aver preso la canna,
e con stile vorace e con l’aria mai sazia,
ho preferito il piscio al nettar d’Alsazia,
il primo per me davvero una manna?
Ti scongiuro per questo, mio caro Dante,
regala a quest’anima un dono importante,
abbassa il calzone e disvela il pisello,
e fa che da esso ne sgorghi un ruscello,
affinché io lo raccolga intenso e abbondante!"

Di fronte alla vista di cotanta bellezza,
e di quanto i suoi occhi tradivan tristezza,
calai le braghe ed esposi il pennello,
duro e corposo come osso d'agnello,
e iniziai a inondarla di candida brezza.

Fluiva dorata sul suo capo moro,
scendeva sul viso col colore dell'oro,
insinuandosi poi con bagnata malizia,
nel seno abbondante di beata delizia,
per rendere umido ogni suo poro!

Io della ragione avea perso ogni indizio,
gridò: "adesso sdraiati mio caro novizio"
e mostrando la vulva alzando la veste,
mi riversò addosso il liquid celeste,
che mi entrò anche in bocca condannandomi al vizio.

Arrivò poi Virgilio che rimase stupito,
di veder la scena da cui venne rapito,
fu allora che disse alla bella dannata,
regala anche a me una bionda bagnata,
che rimarrà poi segreto intradito!

La giovane bella così all'improvviso,
risvuotò la vescica nel pien del suo viso,
lui rovinò a terra contento e ammaliato
urlando a gran voce assai affascinato,
"codesto non è l'inferno è il paradiso!"

Can I ask what Canto this is in? I’ve searched for this text elsewhere online (using exact quotes) and this forum discussion is the only hit that comes up on Google. Would really appreciate seeing/reading the original source. 

[Gotah 2,381]

5 hours ago, Yourinal said:

Can I ask what Canto this is in? I’ve searched for this text elsewhere online (using exact quotes) and this forum discussion is the only hit that comes up on Google. Would really appreciate seeing/reading the original source. 

I have no idea. I found it on the internet written in italian, on a forum claiming that it is is from the comedy.

Now I'm starting to wonder if this actually is an excerpt from the book or if somebody just made that up and If they did, then that person must have an impressive vocabulary and lyrical skills lol

[oliver2 4,418]

Come for the kink, stay for the scholarship 

[longbastard 234]

You guys, it’s not Dante. It’s not even in terza rima. It’s fan fiction.

[Yourinal 8]

Fan fiction! Love it. That’s a pity. I had thought that Joyce (who was big into Dante and spoke exceptionally fluent Italian) would have loved this part of the Divine Comedy. I am so curious to find out who the author is!! @Gotah are you sure you didn’t invent this yourself? Thank you @longbastard for shedding some light. X

[Gotah 2,381]

6 hours ago, Yourinal said:

@Gotah are you sure you didn’t invent this yourself?

I wish lol ... Sadly I'm not sophisticated and smart enough to come up with something like this. I guess the origin of this will remain a bit of a mistery 

[PuddingPipeTree 23]

Four years later, and I have finally finished reading Ulysses. The second-to-last chapter contains a moment of shared urination between the two main characters:
 

Quote

 

Were they indefinitely inactive?

At Stephen's suggestion, at Bloom's instigation both, first Stephen, then Bloom, in penumbra urinated, their sides contiguous, their organs of micturition reciprocally rendered invisible by manual circumposition, their gazes, first Bloom's, then Stephen's, elevated to the projected luminous and semiluminous shadow.

Similarly?

The trajectories of their, first sequent, then simultaneous, urinations were dissimilar: Bloom's longer, less irruent, in the incomplete form of the bifurcated penultimate alphabetical letter who in his ultimate year at High School (1880) had been capable of attaining the point of greatest altitude against the whole concurrent strength of the institution, 210 scholars: Stephen's higher, more sibilant, who in the ultimate hours of the previous day had augmented by diuretic consumption an insistent vesical pressure.

What different problems presented themselves to each concerning the invisible audible collateral organ of the other?

To Bloom: the problems of irritability, tumescence, rigidity, reactivity, dimension, sanitariness, pelosity. To Stephen: the problem of the sacerdotal integrity of Jesus circumcised (1st January, holiday of obligation to hear mass and abstain from unnecessary servile work) and the problem as to whether the divine prepuce, the carnal bridal ring of the holy Roman catholic apostolic church, conserved in Calcata, were deserving of simple hyperduly or of the fourth degree of latria accorded to the abscission of such divine excrescences as hair and toenails.

 

As you can read, this chapter is written in an unusual, question-and-answer style, giving it both a clinical and introspective feel. Not exactly an erotic moment (to me at least, but your mileage may vary) but it is quite vivid and perhaps inspiring to aspiring writers.

 

(I also thought there was some mention about Bloom's wife using a chamberpot in the final chapter, but that seems to be about menstruation blood rather than pee, so it doesn't seem worth sharing.)

[Carb0nBased 647]

18 hours ago, PuddingPipeTree said:

Four years later, and I have finally finished reading Ulysses. The second-to-last chapter contains a moment of shared urination between the two main characters:
 

As you can read, this chapter is written in an unusual, question-and-answer style, giving it both a clinical and introspective feel. Not exactly an erotic moment (to me at least, but your mileage may vary) but it is quite vivid and perhaps inspiring to aspiring writers.

 

(I also thought there was some mention about Bloom's wife using a chamberpot in the final chapter, but that seems to be about menstruation blood rather than pee, so it doesn't seem worth sharing.)

Wow that writing sounds super pretentious! It's one thing to have a large vocabulary and to use it well, but after a few chapters of this it would get very old...

[PuddingPipeTree 23]

4 hours ago, Carb0nBased said:

Wow that writing sounds super pretentious! It's one thing to have a large vocabulary and to use it well, but after a few chapters of this it would get very old...

Oh for sure, there is a reason why this book took me so long to get through. Very rewarding experience though.

The letters he wrote to his wife, that I alluded to in my original post in 2020, are a little easier to make sense of:

Quote

Fuck me on the stairs in the dark, like a nursery-maid fucking her soldier, unbuttoning his trousers gently and slipping her hand into his fly and fiddling with his shirt and feeling it getting wet and then pulling it gently up and fiddling with his two bursting balls and at last pulling out boldly the mickey she loves to handle and frigging it for him softly, murmuring into his ear dirty words and dirty stories that other girls told her and dirty things she said, and all the time pissing her drawers with pleasure and letting off soft warm quiet little farts behind [🤔] until her own girlish cockey is as stiff as his and suddenly sticking him up in her and riding him.

I think I much prefer the pretentiousness of Ulysses over this, to be honest.