Help me out with my research! (Therapy Addition)

[LadySilver 46]

Thanks for checking out this thread!

First of all, regarding my research in general: I’m currently working on my Bachelor’s degree in Interdisciplinary Studies with concentrations in International Studies and Psychology. Part of the honours program requires writing a 60 page thesis. The question I’m speaking to is: what facilitates health in the lives of those who experience paraphilia? In other words, what helps people with fetishes/kinks make good choices and feel good about their sexuality? 

What I'm looking for from you: I have been looking into the various ways psychologists are treating paraphilic disorder (in short, when a non-normative sexual interest harms oneself or others)* . The most common treatments are behavioral and cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT), selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) and androgen deprivation therapy (ADT) (but do respond if you've used another form of treatment!). There is a host of information available from the perspectives of clinicians and therapists who have treated people with these techniques (if you are interested in reading up on it, I would be thrilled to send you some of the research I've been looking at) but I haven't yet found any stories from people who have been treated. I wonder if this is one of the reasons the question of what effective treatment would be for paraphilic disorder remains unanswered.

Answer any or all of these questions and give only as much detail as you're comfortable with (this isn't meant to be a formal survey). If I have any desire to use your perspective in my writing I will ask your permission directly and give you as much information as you'd like about the context it would be used in (and please say no if that's not okay with you!), otherwise assume anything you say will only be used to educate me. If you have any questions about that feel free to ask. 

Have you sought the help of a doctor, clinician, psychologist, psychiatrist, counselor, religious leader or otherwise qualified** individual with the intention of working on something related to your non-normative sexual interests (doesn't have to be omorashi related)? Were you referred by someone? Obliged to undergo treatment? 

What were your goals? Did it feel like you and those working with you had the same goals? 

What was the treatment like for you? How long did you undergo it? If you have stopped now, why? 

In what ways has it helped you? Not helped you? Would you recommend it to someone having a similar experience? Why/why not? 

Are there things you thought people could have done better? 

I can only imagine that some of these experiences could be rather traumatizing, so please reach out over private message if you'd like to share through there or over email. My priority is hearing from people as they are ready to speak to this issue. 

I can only imagine that some of these experiences could be rather traumatizing, so please reach out over private message if you'd like to share through there or over email. My priority is hearing from people as they are ready to speak to this issue. 

If you have any questions at all about the work I'm doing don't hesitate to ask. I would be happy to get in touch with you over private message. 

Thank you so much for your time and willingness to share. 

HG
 

[Brutus 2,206]

I have not sought treatment but I can offer some perspective that you may find useful. 

Wikipedia mentions in it's description that there is no consensus on where the border is between unusual desires and paraphilia. That's all I have to go on at the moment since I've never researched this topic but that huge gray area provides a lot of wiggle room for avoidance of treatment. For me, and I suspect for many if not most fetishists, it is simply a part of yourself that you keep hidden. Since it doesn't usually affect functional people in their everyday lives, it's easy to not see reason to seek treatment. You mostly treat it like a bowel movement in that you do it alone when others aren't around. Another example is when you say horrible things about people to yourself that you would never say aloud. The fact that you keep it secret is grounded in your rational realization that it is not a behavior accepted by society in general. Voyeurism for example, is considered a violation of the social contract in most societies, and even a sizable portion of members here have spoken against pee voyeurism. Yet most porn sites contain a huge library of this exact type of porn, among countless others that also are not deemed acceptable. Statistics of porn searches reveal that there is a huge number of people indulging in all kinds of kinks, if only to simply watch a video. The vast majority of these people would never admit to what they search online in private.

From a psychology standpoint, it may be helpful to compare kinks to observing the result of an auto collision. Part of the intrigue is the rarity, but also the fact that you aren't supposed to look, it's considered rude. Whatever seems unacceptable often makes us want that very thing much more. So with pee voyeurism paraphilia again, part of the appeal to those who enjoy it is the forbidden element that is present. I'm not supposed to be secretly listening to a woman peeing, or watching her do it, but that reality amplifies the thrill. So I guess if you go deep enough into the psychology behind it, you return to basics, it's simply human nature to want what we are told to stay away from.

As for mental health, I suppose it's a slippery slope for each individual to feel they need help. As mentioned above, fetishes are usually indulged in secret, meaning that the decision to seek professional help mostly comes down to the individual. Then how much is crossing that line into feeling help is needed? Two hours per month, per week, per day? In my own case, I decided I needed to stop cold turkey with pee porn because it was making me late to work and consuming my entire weekends a few years ago. So I stopped and got myself under control, then returned at a much healthier consumption rate, and with better self control. My time spent now is down by at least 75%. Others have mentioned doing the same. I could have benefited from outside help, we all can to varying degrees about one thing or another, but it was in my power to reign it in myself and my guess is that most people like that take a similar approach. Those who received professional help were likely too far gone to control it at that point, and may have been suffering from other mental ailments as well.

Hope this was helpful.

Edited March 11, 2020 by Brutus

[FatYoda 323]

Have I sought the help of a doctor, clinician, psychologist, psychiatrist, counselor, religious leader or otherwise qualified** individual with the intention of working on something related to my non-normative sexual interests (doesn't have to be omorashi related)?

 

Nope! And to save you some time, a very small percentage of people will.

[steve25805 126,021]

@LadySilver, I could not give any meaningful answers to your questions because the answer to the first one is no, I have not sought any help with any sexual inclinations I might have, and the rest of your questions are based upon responding to an affirmative answer to the first one. So no meaningful answer could be given.

But when it comes to "non-normative" sexual behaviours and desires - the overwhelmingly prevalent one here being urophiliac interests - I personally, like many you will find, draw a distinction between fetishes that can be indulged in between consenting adults, and those which involve lack of consent, harm, children, or animals. The latter people need help with to control them because they are harmful or morally unacceptable. Consenting adult fetishes - like for example urophilia - are not inherently harmful, so individuals and society should be making no more of a moral judgement about them than we do about, for example, homosexuality or lesbianism. We see it as nothing more than another harmless sexual preference, like being gay, or being into oral or anal sex.

I do not recognise any assumption that urophiliac interests are in any way harmful if they involve consenting adults. They are just another harmless sexual preference, another harmless way for those who swing that way to be having fun.

[LadySilver 46]

On 3/11/2020 at 12:55 AM, FatYoda said:

And to save you some time, a very small percentage of people will.

I think you're right (especially for this type of kink). Twas more of a 'just in case someone has a story they're willing to share' type thing. 

Though, I would ask, why do you think that is? Lack of severity of any issues? Mistrust of institutions/practitioners? Fear of talking about their sexuality? Fear of what would be suggested or even imposed? 

 

[LadySilver 46]

1 hour ago, steve25805 said:

I do not recognise any assumption that urophiliac interests are in any way harmful if they involve consenting adults. They are just another harmless sexual preference, another harmless way for those who swing that way to be having fun.

I completely agree! There are, however, issues that us urophiliacs can run into that have nothing to do with these potential problems. Examples include things like porn addiction,shame and lack of self-esteem, relational issues (with a partner, family, etc.), feeling like urophilia is the only way a person can be sexually satisfied, any trauma that feels connected to a person's experience of urophilia (ex. a childhood experience of humiliation)... 

These things you could talk to a counselor, therapist, or even a religious figure or mentor about, or, even, you could find help in a community like this one. These are some of the things I'd like to look into further, because we talk a lot about sex offenders (as we probably should, mind you) but we're not talking about how any of the things I listed above could lead to behaviour that would require more intense care. We're also not talking about what a good outcome would be for someone recovering from being a sex offender so that they avoid some of the things I listed above. 

I hope that clarified my approach. Thanks for responding! 

HG

[steve25805 126,021]

1 minute ago, LadySilver said:

I completely agree! There are, however, issues that us urophiliacs can run into that have nothing to do with these potential problems. Examples include things like porn addiction,shame and lack of self-esteem, relational issues (with a partner, family, etc.), feeling like urophilia is the only way a person can be sexually satisfied, any trauma that feels connected to a person's experience of urophilia (ex. a childhood experience of humiliation)... 

These things you could talk to a counselor, therapist, or even a religious figure or mentor about, or, even, you could find help in a community like this one. These are some of the things I'd like to look into further, because we talk a lot about sex offenders (as we probably should, mind you) but we're not talking about how any of the things I listed above could lead to behaviour that would require more intense care. We're also not talking about what a good outcome would be for someone recovering from being a sex offender so that they avoid some of the things I listed above. 

I hope that clarified my approach. Thanks for responding! 

HG

I have touched upon many of those things in response to your other thread, including the shame I long felt, how becoming part of an online community like this overcame that, and the fact that I cannot really get off without my fetish being involved. But I will let you go read that for yourself. I was very open and honest there.

[LadySilver 46]

Will do! Thanks, Steve. 

[LadySilver 46]

On 3/11/2020 at 12:03 AM, Brutus said:

there is no consensus on where the border is between unusual desires and paraphilia

Haha this depends on what you're reading. Unfortunately the lingo isn't so clear cut (trust me, I've been doing a lot of reading on this). The definitions I'm using state paraphilia is simply an 'unusual desire', able to be expressed in a completely healthy way and paraphilic disorder (as it is define in the DSM V which is not without its problems) as an expression of paraphilia that harms the self or others. 

On 3/11/2020 at 12:03 AM, Brutus said:

that huge gray area provides a lot of wiggle room for avoidance of treatment

You're telling me! This also provides a lot of wiggle room for people that might need help (even for less serious things like porn addiction or trauma) not having anything available to them in the realm of 'treatment' (not crazy about that word as I don't really think all expressions of paraphilia can or even should be eliminated from a person's experience). 

On 3/11/2020 at 12:03 AM, Brutus said:

I suspect for many if not most fetishists, it is simply a part of yourself that you keep hidden. Since it doesn't usually affect functional people in their everyday lives, it's easy to not see reason to seek treatment.

Totally! This both can put vulnerable people in harm's way (a paedophile, say, not letting anyone else know they are at risk of abusing a child) and prevent people who aren't at risk of harming people from feeling like they can talk about things like shame or sexual issues. 

On 3/11/2020 at 12:03 AM, Brutus said:

So I guess if you go deep enough into the psychology behind it, you return to basics, it's simply human nature to want what we are told to stay away from.

Good observation. No doubt feeling like I shouldn't indulge in my fetish made it simultaneously shame-inducing and special at the same time. I do wonder if that is part of the root among a lot of complicated mechanics we don't understand. Unfortunately not to much the scope of my research at the moment, so I don't have a ton to add. 

On 3/11/2020 at 12:03 AM, Brutus said:

how much is crossing that line into feeling help is needed? Two hours per month, per week, per day?

Very good question. I really wish there was good research (that includes talking to the people affected like you and me) could speak to it. The problem is that this is almost unheard of in the discourse on paraphilia (at least from what I'm look into, and trust me I'm looking deep). 

On 3/11/2020 at 12:03 AM, Brutus said:

I could have benefited from outside help, we all can to varying degrees about one thing or another, but it was in my power to reign it in myself and my guess is that most people like that take a similar approach.

This was my experience as well in managing my addiction to pee porn when I was in my teens. It worked for me, but my question is: should there be more options for people to get help from? Would that take the form of a new branch of the therapeutic community or should it be something else entirely (peer networks like this one or irl, organizations like COSA [very cool, look them up if you don't know what they do - but only for sex offenders] or even AA [also some interesting versions of this for 'sexaholics' but would a fetish specific group be different or even better?])? Especially if you're a young person, feeling vulnerable and ashamed I am deeply worried about the fact that it is difficult to find something to turn to before things could become harder. 

On 3/11/2020 at 12:03 AM, Brutus said:

Those who received professional help were likely too far gone to control it at that point, and may have been suffering from other mental ailments as well.

Yup. Probably. But again, should it be that way? Maybe. But I suppose I'm asking the question anyway. 

On 3/11/2020 at 12:03 AM, Brutus said:

Hope this was helpful

Found it super interesting. Thanks so much! 

HG

[FatYoda 323]

On 3/14/2020 at 1:45 PM, LadySilver said:

I think you're right (especially for this type of kink). Twas more of a 'just in case someone has a story they're willing to share' type thing. 

Though, I would ask, why do you think that is? Lack of severity of any issues? Mistrust of institutions/practitioners? Fear of talking about their sexuality? Fear of what would be suggested or even imposed? 

 

I think it's the ambiguity of whether or not urine is disgusting. Feces is obviously gross and disease ridden but urine is only subjectively gross.

Edited March 16, 2020 by FatYoda
subjectively

[LadySilver 46]

10 hours ago, FatYoda said:

I think it's the ambiguity of whether or not urine is disgusting. Feces is obviously gross and disease ridden but urine is only subjectively gross.

Well, like I mentioned in a few other comments, I think there's a difference between trying to remove your fetish from your experience entirely (something most of us would have no reason to do because, as you say, urine itself really isn't something that ought to garner a lot of anxiety about getting pleasure from) and wanting help for fetish related issues like porn addiction or relationship problems that arise because of your fetish. 

Issues like that might require the input of a professional (particularly if someone is harming themselves or others, which is almost unheard of for a urine fetish) even though they have little to do with exactly whether or not urine is disgusting. 

So yeah, I think people like us are less likely to get help because we associate that with really serious issues like sexual abuse that rarely affect us. I don't know whether or not that means that we don't actually need any attention for less serious things, though, that any of us can experience. 

[Brutus 2,206]

On 3/14/2020 at 5:13 PM, LadySilver said:

This was my experience as well in managing my addiction to pee porn when I was in my teens. It worked for me, but my question is: should there be more options for people to get help from? Would that take the form of a new branch of the therapeutic community or should it be something else entirely (peer networks like this one or irl, organizations like COSA [very cool, look them up if you don't know what they do - but only for sex offenders] or even AA [also some interesting versions of this for 'sexaholics' but would a fetish specific group be different or even better?])? Especially if you're a young person, feeling vulnerable and ashamed I am deeply worried about the fact that it is difficult to find something to turn to before things could become harder. 

Well there are infinite things that there should be more options for, from ways to help starving people, homeless, sexual abuse victims, poor education and so on. The problem with implementing a specific type of therapy for fetishists is low demand. Individual fetishes are usually niche and not something that have a big enough population to justify an entire specialty for therapists to pursue, nor enough people that want treatment for it. That being said, it may be feasible to have a subset of sexual addiction counselors with additional training and education in fetishes in general, as well as a wide range of specific ones.

 

On 3/14/2020 at 5:13 PM, LadySilver said:

Yup. Probably. But again, should it be that way? Maybe. But I suppose I'm asking the question anyway. 

That's a tough question to answer and it may not be useful to say yes or no as a general rule. One question I would think needs addressed is whether those seeking help for fetish addiction need it focused on more than other mental ailments that may be causing them to feel that the fetish is the problem. Like if they have depression, anxiety issues, or ptsd that was never treated, they could be indulging their fetish as a coping mechanism and resolving underlying issues first would take care of the fetish addiction as their overall mental health improves. So with the question of should it be that way, that fetish addiction isn't treated until other issues overwhelm a person, paraphilia can be uncovered as assessment by a professional is conducted and if it is the root cause, then the person could be referred to a sexual addiction specialist, preferably one with paraphilia knowledge. 

Edited March 27, 2020 by Brutus

[steve25805 126,021]

On 3/16/2020 at 2:02 PM, LadySilver said:

So yeah, I think people like us are less likely to get help because we associate that with really serious issues like sexual abuse that rarely affect us

There is another factor involved in people like us not seeking help even if we feel we have problems.

We are all taught from a young age that peeing anywhere but the toilet is wrong and disgusting and that pee itself is dirty. This can induce feelings of shame for our interest in it which we are almost conditioned into feeling. Everyone else who is not one of us grows up with the same indoctrination, which provokes one of two reactions to us. Either disgust or laughter. They are either disgusted by us or want to laugh at us. Knowing this, and having seen such reactions in others often,  it in turn feeds into our shame. None of us want people to be disgusted by us and none of us wants to be laughed at.

I myself have pretty much overcome my shame through forums like this, yet I would be loathe to discuss it with an outsider through fear of a negative reaction, typically either mockery or disgust. Because when you get reactions like this it is difficult to avoid feeling either shame or anger, perhaps both. We tend to want to avoid risking that.

There is very little wider understanding of our fetish out there. Indeed, the persistent assumption is that it is all about humiliation. Because non-fetishists cannot see being peed on as anything other than a dirty, humiliating experience, they tend to assume that we are all into humiliating each other or being humiliated. I know that is it for a few but actually not for most of us. If I were being peed on by a lady I would not experience it as in any way humiliating but as an intensely erotic sexual act and the ultimate intimacy. If I were peeing on a lady it would only ever be happening if she enjoyed it in the same way. Otherwise I'd have no interest in doing it to her. I have no desire to humiliate anyone. 

Many people in general, including frustratingly some professionals, just don't get this.

[LadySilver 46]

6 hours ago, Brutus said:

The problem with implementing a specific type of therapy for fetishists is low demand.

Well, there's low demand now, but do think that would change if it became a relatively normal things to do to see a therapist about issues like this? Most people I've spoken to about this have some sort probably could have benefited from talking to a professional. I don't think the need isn't there, just that we don't have professionals that many of us feel like we trust to actually help. 

6 hours ago, Brutus said:

it may be feasible to have a subset of sexual addiction counselors with additional training and education in fetishes in general, as well as a wide range of specific ones.

This could work, for sure. The education of the therapeutic community, I think, is key. If even your run-of-the-mill family counselor had access to good information they could learn the many aspects of why some of us run into issues and either provide care for something unrelated like anxiety or depression with an awareness of how our sexualities are involved or, at the very least, point people in the right direction (refer them to someone who, like you said, specializes in this sort of stuff). 

6 hours ago, Brutus said:

it may not be useful to say yes or no as a general rule.

Yup. I'm definitely a both/and not either/or kind of person. It certainly isn't a matter of nothing should change or everything should change, it's a 'what's the best way forward from here'? 

6 hours ago, Brutus said:

One question I would think needs addressed is whether those seeking help for fetish addiction need it focused on more than other mental ailments that may be causing them to feel that the fetish is the problem.

I think this is a question the therapeutic community is talking about a little. There have been a number of questions as to whether or not paraphilia makes sense to include even as paraphilic disorder in the DSM, as people question whether or not the 'disordered' aspects of paraphilic disorder are actually related to the sexual interest itself. It may make sense that instead of having paraphilic disorder specialists we have what you could call 'paraphilia informed care', a way of approaching counseling for other mental illness or issues with emotional regulation that, like I said, takes a non-normative sexuality into account. I'm all about holistic treatment. 

6 hours ago, Brutus said:

So with the question of should it be that way, that fetish addiction isn't treated until other issues overwhelm a person, paraphilia can be uncovered as assessment by a professional is conducted and if it is the root cause, then the person could be referred to a sexual addiction specialist, preferably one with paraphilia knowledge. 

Quite possibly! I think this is especially applicable if trying to remove the paraphilia is on the table. Taking a look at mental health issues unrelated to paraphilia and seeing if alleviating those makes a person less of a risk to themselves or others (in situations this serious) means that you can see how big of an issue the paraphilia itself really is (or isn't!). This is one of the reasons it's common practice to use SSRIs to 'treat' some cases of paraphilic disorder (particularly if there are noted mental health issues like OCD) before using more harsh psychopharmacological agents like anti-androgens. 

Treating the both of them as interrelated, though, (the shame about sexuality feeds the anxiety, say, and the sexual frustration feeds the anxiety, and the anxiety is coped with using porn for hours on end) means the person can come out of therapy feeling like a more whole person - they have an awareness of how their sexuality is connected to their emotional and mental health and vice versa (not to mention taking into account other aspects like what they're eating, their sleep schedule, work-life balance, social circle etc.). 

34 minutes ago, steve25805 said:

None of us want people to be disgusted by us and none of us wants to be laughed at.

Yup. This is, I think right now, a massive barrier in people like us reaching out professionally if we need it.

It's a bit easier to understand the stigma in speaking to the common person about paraphilia. I talk about it all the time to 'regular' people, but I benefit from being able to cloak it in academic language and can leave my personal experience out of it when I don't want to go there. I'm also lucky enough to be in an academic community that has never made me feel inferior or ashamed about my experience when I do bring it up - my thesis supervisor is amazing. Most people, though, are simply ignorant. BDSM is becoming a smidge more normalized (thanks, 50 shades?), but more niche (not that we're even super niche) interests are still almost unheard of. People react with disgust partially because they have to process the fact that people find something they find unsavoury attractive, and, often times, I don't really blame them. 

It almost stings more that professionals don't get it, and can be less 'live and let live' even than 'regular' people. It's a bit of a scary feeling that you could open up to professional about your experience, someone you trust to talk to about other mental health issues, and they could completely mischaracterize them and, even unintentionally, you as a person. If I can, I want to devote much of my career to trying to amend this disconnect between the reality of our experience and the perception of it by professionals. 

[Brutus 2,206]

On 3/27/2020 at 10:03 AM, LadySilver said:

Well, there's low demand now, but do think that would change if it became a relatively normal things to do to see a therapist about issues like this? Most people I've spoken to about this have some sort probably could have benefited from talking to a professional. I don't think the need isn't there, just that we don't have professionals that many of us feel like we trust to actually help. 

There are a lot of variables to consider with this. As to whether demand would increase, I would say marginally at best. Everyone could potentially benefit from various kinds of therapy. Plenty of people are in need of financial counsel to manage a checkbook but never seek it. The demand won't increase as long as people don't perceive they need it enough to take time out of their day and spend money on such treatment. The need may be there, but that alone isn't enough. Another thing to consider is the differences between men and women when it comes to therapy. Men are far less likely to seek help, due to both internalized societal pressure to "man up" and beat our struggles alone, and the fact that talking about things at length often doesn't interest us anyway. We are also more likely to have sexual addictions purely as a side effect of being more mentally acclimated to sexual thoughts. So if it was more normal to see a therapist about such issues, there would likely be more women seeking it, but since they aren't the majority of those needing such therapy, the overall increase in demand would likely be marginal.

On 3/27/2020 at 10:03 AM, LadySilver said:

Treating the both of them as interrelated, though, (the shame about sexuality feeds the anxiety, say, and the sexual frustration feeds the anxiety, and the anxiety is coped with using porn for hours on end) means the person can come out of therapy feeling like a more whole person - they have an awareness of how their sexuality is connected to their emotional and mental health and vice versa (not to mention taking into account other aspects like what they're eating, their sleep schedule, work-life balance, social circle etc.). 

Awareness is important. People often have no idea of their triggers or how certain aspects of their mental state affect others. Knowing your own tendencies is very important. I would consider overall self-perception as well. Like if someone generally has a negative outlook due to low opinion of themselves, feelings of worthlessness, that may lead them to believe that indulging in paraphilia is what they deserve. So their negative outlook may be the real addiction and the sexual stuff is just one way it manifests.

[steve25805 126,021]

@LadySilver, I want to share a very negative experience I had with so-called professionals that I have never spoken about online before but which illustrates a big problem. 

It was about 20 years ago, a decade or so before I found the internet and started using pee forums. As I have said before such forums have helped me tremendously in coming to terms with who I am and what I am into, without shame. But before that my inner shame was all consuming and it leached into my everyday life, destroying my self confidence and acting as a major trigger for the anxiety disorder that developed and became so severe that I couldn't work.  Since 2010 forums like this have acted as brilliant therapy for me. Just to reach out and share with like-minded people has been massively therapeutic and I am now a fully functioning member of society, confident in my interactions with people. 

But back before then my all consuming shame was destroying me. The fetish itself was not the problem. The shame I felt that was associated with it was the problem. My GP always said that I had very good insight into my own problems and was good at self analysing. I figured all this out for myself and so round about the year 2000 I sought out help from professionals. I actually spoke to two guys, one a psychologist and the other a psychiatric nurse. I conjured up the courage to mention my fetish and the way the shame associated with it was damaging me. The reaction I got was highly unprofessional. The psychiatric nurse was openly contemptuous whilst the psychologist was openly sniggering and giving sidelong glances at his colleague with a grin as if expecting him to share in the amusement. I ended up becoming angry, though never threatening, at which point the psychiatric nurse threatened physical restraint by force. I soon left and never went back. Thereafter I declined all offers of therapeutic intervention, even from psychologists clearly out to undo the damage and be non-judgemental. Once bitten, twice shy.

With experiences like this I have zero confidence in therapeutic psychologist professionals.

This forum and it's predecessor - peesearch - have been enormously beneficial to me whilst the so-called professionals were anything but professional and utterly failed me. Sad but true.

[LadySilver 46]

On 3/28/2020 at 8:25 PM, Brutus said:

There are a lot of variables to consider with this.

Both of the points you make here are pretty spot on, I think! I've really enjoyed your contributions. 

If there is need, but there may not be demand for a therapy (particularly for men), I guess there are two workarounds I can think of: Firstly, like I said before we could just have more practitioners educated in what I'm calling 'paraphilia informed care'* (trademark pending 😅) : basically allowing professionals to understand paraphilia as interrelated to anything else a person may come to see them for. 

*This is adapted from 'trauma informed care', something getting a lot more attention in recent years. Here's an article explaining some of the principles of it in the context of practicing medicine: https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/trauma-informed-care-what-it-is-and-why-its-important-2018101613562 (and it's not perfect, eh?) 

The second I spoke to a little more at length in my other thread, but what would it be like if a professional hung around a site like this? They'd come with permission, have a relationship with the staff and mods, be committed to confidentiality and not overstepping their bounds (for example, they wouldn't seek people out they'd only make themselves available to people who ask for help), they could do some research like I'm doing (not that I'm a professional by any stretch of the imagination)... I don't know, I think it could be great if the right kind of person took it on and the community was cool with giving it a try. 

On 3/28/2020 at 8:25 PM, Brutus said:

People often have no idea of their triggers or how certain aspects of their mental state affect others. Knowing your own tendencies is very important. I would consider overall self-perception as well.

Right with you on this too. It was only fairly recently I became aware of random things that contributed to my mental health (and the health of my sexuality by proxy) - friggin' revolutionary! And shame is a huge thing. I don't even know where to begin in unpacking it, but, from personal experience, I know that its roots go deep and effect almost everything in your psyche. 

@steve25805: It means a lot that you were willing to share that. Thank you. 

It really breaks my heart, honestly. I don't know how people could even imagine behaving like towards someone you swore to care for. 

You're right to say that this illuminates a huge problem in the therapeutic community. I'm sure you aren't the only one with a story like this. I sure hope unprofessional and hostile behaviour like that isn't the norm in the professional community anymore. I don't blame you for never going back, particularly if a site like this is doing for you what a professional should have done (and more!). 

I wish I had more to say other than this, but know I feel for ya! 

Edited March 30, 2020 by LadySilver

[steve25805 126,021]

1 hour ago, LadySilver said:

….what it be like if a professional hung around a site like this? They'd come with permission, have a relationship with the staff and mods, be committed to confidentiality and not overstepping their bounds (for example, they wouldn't seek people out they'd only make themselves available to people who ask for help), they could do some research like I'm doing (not that I'm a professional by any stretch of the imagination)... I don't know, I think it could be great if the right kind of person took it on and the community was cool with giving it a try. 

You would have to run an idea like that past @Admin. He's the guy in ultimate charge.

But my own suspicion is that such a psychologist figure - to gain wide acceptance here - would have to really be one of us in some way.

Many here might not feel comfortable with such a person if he or she were not, I suspect.

I personally would be cool with it, but I have an interest in psychology and have a mind that has an instinctive understanding of - and empathy with - it. That makes me biased in favour of the idea but I do not and cannot speak for everyone else. 

But will tag in the other mods - @Scot_Lover and @Sophie - in case they want to express an opinion either way.

[Sophie 24,410]

21 minutes ago, steve25805 said:

You would have to run an idea like that past @Admin. He's the guy in ultimate charge.

But my own suspicion is that such a psychologist figure - to gain wide acceptance here - would have to really be one of us in some way.

Many here might not feel comfortable with such a person if he or she were not, I suspect.

I personally would be cool with it, but I have an interest in psychology and have a mind that has an instinctive understanding of - and empathy with - it. That makes me biased in favour of the idea but I do not and cannot speak for everyone else. 

But will tag in the other mods - @Scot_Lover and @Sophie - in case they want to express an opinion either way.

I'm okay with the idea but personally I would refuse to talk to a therapist or psychologist of any kind for reasons I don't want to get into. 

Sorry @LadySilver, it's nothing personal. 

[Admin 14,788]

I too am certainly interested in the psychological aspect of this fetish. For people who voluntarily want to be involved with it I see no issue with the option being there, but I imagine the majority may not. 🙂 

[Scot_Lover 1,876]

When Mary was with us, we were interviewed by a professional in regards to our 3some relationship, and only with reluctance did we talk about anything else. There was an overhanging block you might say, talking openly about something that was way out in left field. We talked about it together, and due to the perceived ‘anonymous’ status of the interview, we went ahead with it. 
 

The poor girl who did the interview was in a bit of a state by the time we finished, and at the end of it, someone else came in to ask a few more things. Think we surprised a few people that day. We thought about it for weeks afterward, wondering if we did the right thing, wondering if it was a mistake, opening up that way. Not sure if I want to do that again. 
 

Nearly everything that people do are in the forums anyway, you just have to find them. 

[LadySilver 46]

Thanks everyone for popping in and thanks, @steve25805, for tagging them 🙂

First of all, this idea, for now is pure speculation. If you haven't read through the whole thread (and I don't blame you haha) the main reason I'm throwing around these ideas is because I'm writing a bachelor's level (meaning I'm not even close to a professional) thesis on what we can do to come alongside people like us who are in dark places. There's a lot of talk about traditional therapy and even more extreme things like the use of psychopharmacological interventions but there's not much about other alternatives, particularly for people who wouldn't really trust a therapist in a traditional setting like many of you have expressed (myself included, mind you). People like us are rarely consulted, and I wanted to include more than just my experience and scholarly perspective in my paper. Even as a paraphiliac myself I'm learning a lot - I'm very grateful so many of you have reached out. 

If we were ever to welcome a professional onto the site - I think people are right that it would take a very long time for them to establish enough trust that people would want to talk to them about things like mental health and addiction (things I've heard a lot about in the conversations I've been having and have experienced plenty of myself). I think it could only work if the person was coming in either as an insider (having the same interest, or even having another separate fetish) or was doing so with a radically open mind. They'd be doing most of the learning for what could be months before people knew and trusted them. In other words, we'd have to find someone stellar and I'd have no idea even where to begin looking. 

I'd love to chat more about not therapy related stuff, by the way! My third chapter is all about how communities like this one can facilitate health (and how unhealthy ones can make things worse - think child porn rings and the like) and I'd love to hear about how this community came to be so rich and life-giving for so many (and some of the challenges in making that happen, of course). Shoot me a message or email me at [email protected] (it may take me a bit of time to put some questions together if you have interest, though - thanks for your patience!).

21 hours ago, Sophie said:

Sorry @LadySilver, it's nothing personal. 

Totally no problem at all. I completely understand having boundaries here. 

Thanks again, 

HG

 

Edited March 30, 2020 by LadySilver

[EastCoast1997 15]

I've told my psychologist about my pee interest as well as some other wired fetishes and she doesn't seem to see them as problems to be treated, as long as they don't cause me to do something that would get me into trouble. In fact, I'm surprised in this day and age that unusual fetishes would even be considered something to be treated unless they involve something demonstrably harmful or caused some sort of problems in relationships or day to functioning.

[LadySilver 46]

7 hours ago, EastCoast1997 said:

In fact, I'm surprised in this day and age that unusual fetishes would even be considered something to be treated

I'm also pretty shocked that the treatments they use are common practice. The most common interventions (Androgen Deprivation Therapies, SSRI treament in some cases and Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) all have at their centre the belief that the removal of paraphilia is the best outcome. However, these are all only used in situations where a person is harming themselves or others or is under great distress (what would be defined as paraphilic disorder), like what you mentioned in your response. 

In my view (and this is the perspective I'm trying to put forth in my thesis) even if someone is causing harm, it is not the healthy thing to do to use a purely destructive approach. This 'every tool is a hammer' way of caring for people has some serious drawbacks including harsh physical side effects from drugs and what must be psychological trauma for many. The current therapeutic approach could really use the addition of positive modes of intervening in cases of paraphilic disorder (and there are some in there that could simply have greater emphasis) that don't just remove the harmful stuff but try to add good stuff. 

Thanks for responding! I'd be happy to speak to this topic and others at greater length, so feel not just free but encouraged to private message me or keep this thread growing 🙂