REAL FEAR!!!

[2prnot2p 1,066]

When the leader of a nation repeatedly calls the Free Press the "enemy of the people," it is time to get scared!  I am dead serious.  I have done a little research on this, and all of the following, at one time or another, made the same claim.  Here's the list:

Adolph Hitler

Joseph Stalin

Chairman Mao

Saddam Hussein

Hugo Chavez

Mussolini

Tito

Francisco Franco

Donald Trump

Do you see a pattern here?  Trump must be stopped at all costs!  No president in U.S. history has ever called the press an enemy!

I'm not a believer, but...GOOD GOD!  We must do something!

Thanks for reading.  I'll step down from my soapbox now.

[steve25805 126,021]

Trump is a crypto-Fascist, as well as an utterly dishonest narcissistic sociopath, who is also a racist, misogynist sexual abuser to boot.

To attack the free press as he has is surely highly dangerous.

[WantonLee 861]

I disagree. All the other leaders were basically all socialists/communists or European in one way or another. So this is what made them bad, NOT calling the free press "enemy of the people".

I have not found any proof of Trump following any social or communist ideas - but maybe I have not looked hard enough. In the case you can come up with some substantial proof, I will instantly agree with you.

As for being European: good luck finding any traces of Europe in his blood. (Having Euopean ancestors does not count, as this includes ALL Americans. He does have german ancestors, though, which should worry you far more.)

 

Plus Americans (US-Americans, that is) are traditionally the good guys in any war, so another reason not to worry about Trump. He simply can't set the world on fire in person, even if he intended to. He would need other people (like the military) to do it for him. And for that, Americans are just to smart, kind and sensible to ever do that. Any soldier confronted with orders of that nature would just disobey them... .

[steve25805 126,021]

1 hour ago, WantonLee said:

I disagree. All the other leaders were basically all socialists/communists or European in one way or another. So this is what made them bad, NOT calling the free press "enemy of the people".

I have not found any proof of Trump following any social or communist ideas - but maybe I have not looked hard enough. In the case you can come up with some substantial proof, I will instantly agree with you.

As for being European: good luck finding any traces of Europe in his blood. (Having Euopean ancestors does not count, as this includes ALL Americans. He does have german ancestors, though, which should worry you far more.)

 

Plus Americans (US-Americans, that is) are traditionally the good guys in any war, so another reason not to worry about Trump. He simply can't set the world on fire in person, even if he intended to. He would need other people (like the military) to do it for him. And for that, Americans are just to smart, kind and sensible to ever do that. Any soldier confronted with orders of that nature would just disobey them... .

Trump is not a socialist or communist. In his heart he is more like a Fascist.

They tend to attack a free press too.

And America are not always the good guys. Tell that to Chile circa 1973, or Iran pre-1979, or the survivors of My Lai. 

Whether or not Americans are the good guys tends to be down to how they are led.

Which brings us back to Trump....

[Scot_Lover 1,876]

One of our news stations used to have a segment called 'Only In America' usually running things like insane chemical train wrecks, how many people killed this week and of course, Trump's big orange head.

He was supposed to visit our fair land, but cancelled out, now it looks like he's coming over again. I'll not make the effort, will see his circus on tv, that will be enough.

Personally, and Maigh agrees, we think Hilary would have made a better job of it. We can't help thinking that maybe people got together, had a bit of a conference and thought 'We already had Obama, think it's too hard to put a woman in there, let's go the safe, but crazy option'.

I've dropped several US friends from Facebook because of their 'foam at the mouth' reaction when you say one word against Trump, it's just getting too crazy.

 

[2prnot2p 1,066]

@Scot_Lover  I agree with much of what you say.  However, too many people here dislike Hillary for numerous reasons too long to list.  I must confess that I did not vote.  It's the first time I didn't vote in a general election in my life!  I cannot stand Hillary.  To me, she is the epitome of all the bad things in politics.  She speaks in platitudes and comes across so phony.  Plus, too much negative baggage from her husband.  I will not vote for "the lesser of two evils."  To me, I have to like and believe in a candidate to get out and vote for him or her.  Before the 2016 election, I thought, "This is our choice?  These two?"  So sad that it came down to Hillary and a sociopath who is a terrible businessman and is only rich due to his daddy.  I would have voted for Bernie in a heartbeat! 

I don't mind being called a socialist.  Capitalism has started to fail in a big way.  Corporate greed and doing away with regulations will be our demise eventually.  Therefore, there must be a strong overseeing of banks and corporate America.  Remember the 2008 crisis?  People forget so easily.

As for those who complain that liberals are commies, I will say this.  The conservatives are directly responsible for the widening gap between the rich and poor.   That is a fact.  Reagan didn't help us at all.  And all those older people who are on social security and medicare would not have those were it up to the Republican party.  All the programs that have helped the poor to middle class were implemented  by Democrats.  Look it up.  It's true.

Neither party is perfect.  I wish there was a viable third party, but I don't see that ever happening in this country.  It's a shame too.  Both Dems and Reps cater to special interests and give in to lobbyists at times.  They all are guilty of that.  The two main parties just need to compromise, where they each get a little of what they want and some that they don't want.  That's what life is about.  Ideal is a fantasy.

They lowered the corporate tax rate recently.  Great!  That's just what we need.  NOT!  And, the upper class paid a higher tax rate in the 1950's with President Eisenhower in office!  Remember, the 1950's was the most prosperous decade in U.S. history!  What do you say to that, my intelligent conservative friends?  Hmm?  Speak up now.  LOL!

[2prnot2p 1,066]

4 hours ago, steve25805 said:

Trump is not a socialist or communist. In his heart he is more like a Fascist.

They tend to attack a free press too.

And America are not always the good guys. Tell that to Chile circa 1973, or Iran pre-1979, or the survivors of My Lai. 

Whether or not Americans are the good guys tends to be down to how they are led.

Which brings us back to Trump....

Spot on, Steve!  We were the good guys in WWII.  That's the America I like to remember.  When the French were applauding as we marched and when Eisenhower made the people of a small town in Germany tour that death camp.  That is what America should be!

[Scot_Lover 1,876]

8 minutes ago, 2prnot2p said:

@Scot_Lover  I agree with much of what you say.  However, too many people here dislike Hillary for numerous reasons too long to list.  I must confess that I did not vote.  It's the first time I didn't vote in a general election in my life!  I cannot stand Hillary.  To me, she is the epitome of all the bad things in politics.  She speaks in platitudes and comes across so phony.  Plus, too much negative baggage from her husband.  I will not vote for "the lesser of two evils."  To me, I have to like and believe in a candidate to get out and vote for him or her.  Before the 2016 election, I thought, "This is our choice?  These two?"  So sad that it came down to Hillary and a sociopath who is a terrible businessman and is only rich due to his daddy.  I would have voted for Bernie in a heartbeat! 

 

We have to vote, everyone is on the Electoral Roll, there is no option. If you don't, you cop a fine (not sure how much, but you are fined if you don't) People make a day of it, most polling stations are at schools, always a bbq on offer.

 

[2prnot2p 1,066]

2 minutes ago, Scot_Lover said:

We have to vote, everyone is on the Electoral Roll, there is no option. If you don't, you cop a fine (not sure how much, but you are fined if you don't) People make a day of it, most polling stations are at schools, always a bbq on offer.

 

I did not know that.  I seem to learn something new everyday.  Thanks for the info.

[steve25805 126,021]

19 hours ago, 2prnot2p said:

@Scot_Lover  I agree with much of what you say.  However, too many people here dislike Hillary for numerous reasons too long to list.  I must confess that I did not vote.  It's the first time I didn't vote in a general election in my life!  I cannot stand Hillary.  To me, she is the epitome of all the bad things in politics.  She speaks in platitudes and comes across so phony.  Plus, too much negative baggage from her husband.  I will not vote for "the lesser of two evils."  To me, I have to like and believe in a candidate to get out and vote for him or her.  Before the 2016 election, I thought, "This is our choice?  These two?"  So sad that it came down to Hillary and a sociopath who is a terrible businessman and is only rich due to his daddy.  I would have voted for Bernie in a heartbeat! 

I don't mind being called a socialist.  Capitalism has started to fail in a big way.  Corporate greed and doing away with regulations will be our demise eventually.  Therefore, there must be a strong overseeing of banks and corporate America.  Remember the 2008 crisis?  People forget so easily.

As for those who complain that liberals are commies, I will say this.  The conservatives are directly responsible for the widening gap between the rich and poor.   That is a fact.  Reagan didn't help us at all.  And all those older people who are on social security and medicare would not have those were it up to the Republican party.  All the programs that have helped the poor to middle class were implemented  by Democrats.  Look it up.  It's true.

Neither party is perfect.  I wish there was a viable third party, but I don't see that ever happening in this country.  It's a shame too.  Both Dems and Reps cater to special interests and give in to lobbyists at times.  They all are guilty of that.  The two main parties just need to compromise, where they each get a little of what they want and some that they don't want.  That's what life is about.  Ideal is a fantasy.

They lowered the corporate tax rate recently.  Great!  That's just what we need.  NOT!  And, the upper class paid a higher tax rate in the 1950's with President Eisenhower in office!  Remember, the 1950's was the most prosperous decade in U.S. history!  What do you say to that, my intelligent conservative friends?  Hmm?  Speak up now.  LOL!

Should have been Bernie Sanders running against Trump. He might have won it and changed a lot of things for the better.

[spywareonya 37,961]

On ‎2‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 8:28 PM, WantonLee said:

socialists/communists

Let's be careful with those terms

Socialism and even more Communism are what Marx DID theorize HIMSELF, NOT what people says he DID. I am sure you were just trying to make long things short indeed I am not trying to scold you, I just felt summoned to reply about the very subject

Socialism means just that the Government owns Factories and decides salary and working shift, avoiding abuses by capitalistic single investers, and is the best kind of society possible (beside the hypothetical 0-money-all-bartering [sadly almost impossible yet my dream-society] theories of Kropotkin) and has NOTHING to do with the URSS society that boasted about it

Communism means that Government more or less ceases to exist and all society is ruled by free corporativism, following the law of supply and demand without building trends like they do today in order to increase the sales by convincing people they got needs they don't really have. And it has NOTHING to do with Stalin and what he did!!!

Communism never existed. It was born in the mind of Marx and died there. Indeed actual researchers use the term Stalinism to describe URSS because it is uncorrect to label it as Communism.

And this is sad, because Communism as imagined by Marx is cool, but what has been historically described by that name shambled and scrambled the Whole thing down

[2prnot2p 1,066]

@spywareonya

Forgive me, but Socialism is NOT where the government owns the factories or businesses and sets the wages.

DEFINITION OF SOCIALISM:

"a political system that aims to create a society in which everyone has equal opportunities and in which the most important industries are owned or controlled by the whole community"

But, it's not really feasible.  Neither communism nor socialism calls for a tyrannical government.  You are correct that the USSR owned everything, and that was not true communism.  There has never been a nation that had a genuine communistic system.  They're totalitarian.  China was like that, but they do allow free enterprise now.  They're lightening up quite a bit.  Still, don't protest against the government there.  People would ask, "Where's Nancy?  They took her away 3 days ago!"  LOL!  Right?

Ideally, if there was true socialism, personal liberty would still exist, such as civil rights and the freedom to own property and a business.  But, as I said, it's not really feasible.  A bit of a pipe dream.  LOL!

 

 

 

Edited March 4, 2019 by 2prnot2p

[2prnot2p 1,066]

@WantonLee

His ancestors were from a German village named after their family!  It is called Trumpf.  They dropped the "f" when they moved to the USA.  There was a story about it on TV here during the campaign in 2016.

[spywareonya 37,961]

@2prnot2p

About Socialism, the definition really changes among the sources talking about it

Your definition is 100% correct, let's say I lost long ago direct contact with the original meaning, trying to shift to more acceptable and realistic versions of it...

I read books about politic since I'm a teenager and by now I read almost all of the russian thinkers of history... I also am an anarco-communist political activist (this doesn't mean I am an anarchist and a communist, anarco-communism is a different thing, words can deceive), and believe me, I have read ten thousands different versions of what that word should mean… and you are right… they are difficult to apply

Indeed anarco-communism is the hardest of all. It's like capitalism (paradoxically) but with bartering instead of money, following ONLY the law of demand and supply (I tried to shorten thousands of pages into a single sentence so forgive me if I shitfaced myself completely)

 

ps I ALSO am an anarchist, in addition to that, by the way… but once again… anarchy as described by Mikhail Bakunin… not as the modern inferring of the word!!!

Edited March 4, 2019 by spywareonya

[F.W 5,734]

Hmmm.Im a Brit,and i have no problem with Pres Trump.I dont get the issue..He comes to UK and thousands protest.The human rights flatteners,from China,Saudi Arabia,where women are somewhere between dogs and monkeys in how they are treated,no-one raised an eyebrow.He was voted in democratically,by his fellow Americans,so its not like he staged a coup or anything is it.

The world these days is going to the dogs,its about time we did have strong leaders who dont care about PC,or "offending" anyone,that doesnt agree with him.Trouble with the UK is we have got far too used to leaders like Mrs May,trying not to offend anyone and appeasing terrorists,all to try win votes of "minorities".

If you look at how he has brought N.Korea to talks about de nuclearising Korea.In 70 years nearly there has been only a ceasefire,millions of troops constantly on a war footing.So that has to be a good thing.

He knows that you cannot allow millions of foreigners to enter your country without proper registration.In some ways,that is invasion.Loads of people entering your homeland without your permission.Invasion.Look at the chaos and carnage in Europe,due to Merkels open door policies.Squads of ISIS and al-Qaeda,just roaming free everywhere.The Paris carnage of Nov 2015 was proven to have been done by "refugees" serving with ISIS.

Trump,and the American people know that to avoid this as much as possible,you have to regulate against these scum,by the simple act of banning them from your country.Simples.

Im no admirer and wouldnt go cheer him or anything,but end of the day,hes not my president,let the americans get on with it.We have our own problems!

[2prnot2p 1,066]

All we can do is hope for a new leader in 2020.   The sad thing is that Trump lost the popular vote by 3 million votes.  So, that's not democracy to me.  I hate that we have this stupid Electoral College system.  However, I don't see it ever being changed to where the candidate with the most actual votes is declared the winner.  Why the founding fathers made this system, I will never know. 

In over 200 years, only two winners of the popular vote have lost the election.  Those were Hillary Clinton and Al Gore.  All the others won both the popular and electoral votes.  So, the system has worked quite well.  Only two out of many elections is not a bad record.  But, when it doesn't work, it can be HORRIBLE!  Like now.

Edited March 5, 2019 by 2prnot2p
A goof. I had Bush as loser, but it was Gore. My bad!

[spywareonya 37,961]

On ‎3‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 7:55 PM, 2prnot2p said:

Only two out of many elections is not a bad record

Ahahahah!!!

I am curious to see who's gonna run for President next year, but I know things less

I could really be interested in a thread about it

[steve25805 126,021]

1 hour ago, spywareonya said:

Ahahahah!!!

I am curious to see who's gonna run for President next year, but I know things less

I could really be interested in a thread about it

I hope Bernie Sanders runs

[spywareonya 37,961]

8 minutes ago, steve25805 said:

I hope Bernie Sanders runs

Just as I said, I know little about

[steve25805 126,021]

On ‎3‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 6:55 PM, 2prnot2p said:

All we can do is hope for a new leader in 2020.   The sad thing is that Trump lost the popular vote by 3 million votes.  So, that's not democracy to me.  I hate that we have this stupid Electoral College system.  However, I don't see it ever being changed to where the candidate with the most actual votes is declared the winner.  Why the founding fathers made this system, I will never know. 

 

I think - read this somewhere - that back in those days democracy was still regarded as a somewhat revolutionary concept, a little bit dangerous and potentially susceptible to mob rule. So the electoral college system was designed to interpose a layer of "responsible" representatives to choose the president rather than the people directly. Hasn't worked out too well in practice in my opinion.

[steve25805 126,021]

3 minutes ago, spywareonya said:

Just as I said, I know little about

Bernie Sanders is someone very much on the left of American politics, more like a Rooseveltian Democrat, and someone seeking to champion the millions of struggling Americans against the rich and powerful.

He is very much someone we on the British left can work with.

[spywareonya 37,961]

15 minutes ago, steve25805 said:

I think - read this somewhere - that back in those days democracy was still regarded as a somewhat revolutionary concept, a little bit dangerous and potentially susceptible to mob rule. So the electoral college system was designed to interpose a layer of "responsible" representatives to choose the president rather than the people directly. Hasn't worked out too well in practice in my opinion.

I agree, this is likely what actually happened

Indeed they should have let it to the People

 

Don't get me wrong, I am a Witch before being an anarchist and Witchcraft is not democratic, we are much similar to Star Trek's Vulcanians (without their fear/disgust toward emotions) and we look for "what's best" and we care really little for personal preferencies, but we know that people must Always COME FIRST and thus we know it's a leader's duty to explain his decisions to the people

 

So, I do NOT think people are capable of self-commanding. BUT I know that nothing good can come from leaving people behind. People must become less immature and headlong before they can deserve absolute self-determination, but we must work TOWARD that, using leadership only to lead people toward a future where there will be no need for leaders anymore, NOT having fun with power in the meanwhile, hoping for the day when we relinquish it never to come

 

12 minutes ago, steve25805 said:

Bernie Sanders is someone very much on the left of American politics, more like a Rooseveltian Democrat, and someone seeking to champion the millions of struggling Americans against the rich and powerful.

He is very much someone we on the British left can work with.

This makes this one interesting to me. You see? Just as I said, I just needed infos

Edited March 20, 2019 by spywareonya

[2prnot2p 1,066]

1 hour ago, steve25805 said:

Bernie Sanders is someone very much on the left of American politics, more like a Rooseveltian Democrat, and someone seeking to champion the millions of struggling Americans against the rich and powerful.

He is very much someone we on the British left can work with.

Bernie is running, for sure.  However, it's almost a sure thing that former vice president Joe Biden will run too.  I love Bernie, but I think Biden will be the Democratic candidate if he runs.  In a very early poll the other day, Biden had 28% to Bernie's 26%.  But, it's way too early to mean anything.  The race will be a circus.  There are almost 20 people who are running.  It's ridiculous.  I think a large field will waste so much time and hurt the chance of the Dems.  Everyone wants the job.  Why?  I have no idea.  It's so nuts! 

To use a Trump line, "We'll see what happens."

LOL! 🤣

[spywareonya 37,961]

9 minutes ago, 2prnot2p said:

Everyone wants the job

EGO, my dear friend, EGO

Disfunction of self-adfirmation

I do thus I am great

Ok, but then it can end up like this:

I fall in love with feeling great so I must stick my nose in everything to keep "doing" because if I do I am great and thus I should think that if I stop do then I am not great anymore

 

This is a deep disfunction of the brain

We are our Whole personal history. We are not just our most recent victories. But people who do not love themselves enough fail to understand that. And thus, being great (or believing they are) become an addiction 

[2prnot2p 1,066]

I think a Biden-Sanders ticket would win in a landslide.  But, I don't see that happening.  Hillary was advised to pick Bernie as a running mate, but didn't.  He's so far left that I think Biden would beat him, sadly.

Edited March 20, 2019 by 2prnot2p