English Council in Hertfordshire now charging people pissing in the woods with littering

[Vassal 1,471]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/29/english-council-littering-fines-peeing-in-countryside-dacorum-hertfordshire

An exert:

Quote

A council in England has doubled down on the fining of people caught peeing in the countryside for littering, even after it emerged its own legal advice did not appear to fully support its stance.

There have been at least two cases of men handed £88 fines by Dacorum borough council in Hertfordshire after being caught in the act by council enforcers apparently lying in wait in laybys.

After the men claimed they were relieving themselves in woods by the layby, the fines have provoked a row over whether taking a wild wee amounts to littering – or whether it is even a crime at all.

Lawyers have criticised the fines, but Dacorum council officials have been defiant, saying their policy – which is not unique – has a legal basis.

Few regular visitors to the countryside will pass their lives without taking a wild wee; fewer still would expect that doing so could land them with a fine. Yet that is what happened to at least two men in the Hertfordshire borough.

Laughing at "wild peeing," being the term used because pissing in the woods isn't what first comes to mind.

[Alfresco 11,631]

That's ridiculous, although not the first time I've heard it.  Surely littering constitutes leaving something which is not meant to be in the environment, doesn't degrade quickly and is unsightly as well as potentially needing to be cleaned up.   Pissing in the countryside is the only option if you are out for more than a couple of hours, it soaks into the ground almost immediately, actually assists nature and is exactly what every other animal does.   The only way I could possibly see the littering charge being used would be if that tissue, tampons, pads or packaging of such items were left on the ground by the pisser.   

The Cambridge Dictionary defines litter as "small pieces of rubbish that have been left lying on the ground in public places".   I don't think you could include a liquid in that.   Even if it were coffee, tea, or water, it wouldn't be litter.    If it were oil then that wouldn't be litter but it would be pollution.  

Sounds like they just want to find something to stop a behaviour they don't want and they are clutching at straws.

[WateryMoose 358]

This is so stupid lmao, why would they want to do that since in the middle of the countryside you aren't exactly likely to bother many people

[Bacardi 10,134]

Better than here in America where you can face jailtime and a spot on the sex offender list lol. You catch the wrong officer and wrong judge at the wrong time and your ass is grass. 

[gldenwetgoose 21,489]

Sounds like the council have 'Pee Wombles' (to coin a Clarkson-esque phrase) hiding in traffic layby's - so the council provide parking rest areas for motorists but then entrap those who've stopped safely to take care of nature's need.

I reckon there'd be a pretty strong legal defence if the council fail to provide toilet facilities and then try to prosecute people for needing the toilet.

Of course - leaving tissues or sanitary products could easily and fairly be classed as littering.  A couple of years ago I posted about the extent of partly degraded tissues covering Spanish roadsides and the length of time they took to degrade. 

[Kevin 638]

14 hours ago, gldenwetgoose said:

Sounds like the council have 'Pee Wombles' (to coin a Clarkson-esque phrase) hiding in traffic layby's - so the council provide parking rest areas for motorists but then entrap those who've stopped safely to take care of nature's need.

I reckon there'd be a pretty strong legal defence if the council fail to provide toilet facilities and then try to prosecute people for needing the toilet.

Of course - leaving tissues or sanitary products could easily and fairly be classed as littering.  A couple of years ago I posted about the extent of partly degraded tissues covering Spanish roadsides and the length of time they took to degrade. 

Yeah, I think it's one of the main flaw of their logic. If they don't provide enough public toilets they can't say anything. It's like littering when there is no public trashcan.

[Bladderlad 823]

15 hours ago, gldenwetgoose said:

Sounds like the council have 'Pee Wombles' (to coin a Clarkson-esque phrase) hiding in traffic layby's - so the council provide parking rest areas for motorists but then entrap those who've stopped safely to take care of nature's need.

I reckon there'd be a pretty strong legal defence if the council fail to provide toilet facilities and then try to prosecute people for needing the toilet.

Of course - leaving tissues or sanitary products could easily and fairly be classed as littering.  A couple of years ago I posted about the extent of partly degraded tissues covering Spanish roadsides and the length of time they took to degrade. 

Pee wombles 😂😂

[gldenwetgoose 21,489]

1 hour ago, Kevin said:It's like littering when there is no public trashcan.

Absolutely agree - although I suppose there is a difference:  when you’ve got litter you can keep holding onto it until you reach a bin…