Upskirting

[F.W 5,734]

Today in the UK parliament is making it illegal to take,or attempt to take pictures up skirts.I guess ok its not nice,im sure if i were a woman i wouldnt like it.But will it then become illegal to view it if filmed in other countries?Its a slippery slope to the criminalisation of porn.The Japanese do it well enough anyway..

Edited June 15, 2018 by Sophie
Moved to Sex, Porn, and other NSFW content ~ Sophie

[spywareonya 37,961]

On ‎6‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 10:32 PM, fannywatcher said:

Today in the UK parliament is making it illegal to take,or attempt to take pictures up skirts.I guess ok its not nice,im sure if i were a woman i wouldnt like it.But will it then become illegal to view it if filmed in other countries?Its a slippery slope to the criminalisation of porn.The Japanese do it well enough anyway..

This forum is protected so police will not arrive here

I had concerns on my own

In many countries shooting piss porn is outlawed, New Zealand for example, both shooting it and viewing it

I hope your Parliament is just against taking them in itself, in my country taking pic of a stranger, even non sexual, is considered harassment and you can be jailed for this

 

[greedyneedygirl 4,156]

There has been a great deal of talk about up-skirting in the British Media over the past few weeks after legislation to criminalise the act. One article in particular compelled me to respond with my own opinions on what is a serious matter. It starts with an email from someone called Mary who would like to attend a music festival:

I don’t want to be upskirted – are there any outfits I should avoid? What can I wear to prevent anyone taking a photo of my crotch at a festival?

It says a lot about attitudes to women that people haven’t been angrier about upskirting before. Here’s what the current row tells us about clothes, power and shame.
A vagina. As most of us now know, the practice of “upskirting” – taking a photo of a woman’s crotch without her consent – has now become so widespread that one young woman, Gina Martin, felt compelled to launch a bill to make it illegal after someone upskirted her in Hyde Park, London. But, as most of us also now know, a Tory MP, one Sir Christopher Chope, blocked this bill’s progress – not, he has been crossly saying ever since, because he is such a fan of seeing random strangers’ crotches. No, he is just upset about the legislation process, you see. And truly, who could doubt the strong good morals of Sir Christopher Crotch? 

And speaking of upstanding, let’s talk upskirting. It says a lot about how little people care about female consent that they haven’t been angrier about this before now, because it is not like upskirting has been a secret – upskirt shots of celebrities have been in the tabloids for decades. In fact, most of us have borne witness to the most notorious upskirt shot of all time, when Paul Verhoeven tricked Sharon Stone into taking off her underwear for the shooting of one infamous scene. Verhoeven promised Stone that nothing would be visible, only for Stone to realise too late that Verhoeven had not just upskirted her, but was putting the results in every multiplex around the world. I watched the film recently and you would be hard pushed to spot her pussy, such was the way the shot was edited. In fact, it was more about the gaze on the male actors faces that made the scene memorable.

Maybe people told themselves that upskirting happens because women – those silly women! – insist on wearing skirts so short it turns the world into their gynaecologist, to quote the eternally quotable Patsy from Ab Fab. Those poor photographers – those women will not stop shoving their gussets in their lenses.
A lawyer, Nick ‘Mr Loophole’ Freeman, brought the noble Freeman name into disrepute last weekend when he tweeted: “While this is totally unacceptable conduct, if women assumed some responsibility for their attire, they would not be in jeopardy.”

This point was so absurd even Freeman’s daughter, Sophie, replied to her father to tell him that this was “one of the top 3 stupidest comments you’ve ever made.” Nick then replied, wrongly: “it’s most stupid, not stupidest”. And that, Nick, goes into your top four.

Last month, I saw some paparazzi using selfie sticks to take upskirt shots of young women leaving a movie premiere, and some of those women were wearing dresses so long the photographer had to wiggle his selfie stick under their hems, which were literally dragging on the ground.

So shall we get something straight? Upskirting – is being discussed within the context of a sexual assault, but is it?  It has everything to do with a woman’s hemline, the shorter the skirt or dress the easier to get that shot, but of what? Let’s face it, we wear knickers and tights right? Or both at the same time, the goal of the upskirter is that they try to possess that woman’s genitals. Yet part of the thrill, is the risk and pursuit. I would argue that the man is already pre-determined by seeing the genitals in his imagination. He wants to record that thought, digitally. Let’s face it technology makes it easier to create an upskirt photograph. Sexual assaults have nothing to do with sex. There is nothing sexy about a blurry camera phone shot of an oblivious stranger’s vagina, unless you find humiliation sexy. This is about young women being shamed for going out and having fun, and men wanting to tell them they have power over them. It’s telling that the kind of men who victim-shame are the kind who patronise their own daughters.

The same men who have told their daughter’s to act with decorum, I can remember one male relative encouraging me to perform hand stands against the wall in our garden. Likewise boys at school who would watch us do similar acrobatics in the playground. My mother politely taught me to keep my legs firmly closed in company. We learn, then, it seems we un-learn. I’m only too aware that the length of my hem-line is like a magnet to men positioning themselves behind me on staircases and escalators.

Here’s another thought regarding the woman at the music festival, a victim of the predatory up-skirter. Suppose that she was menstruating? Or, let’s be frank, her panties may have been stained, dirty. Perhaps that is part of the thrill of the up-skirter. Given my proclivities and research into matters regarding pornography, I see that there are specialist categories for up-skirt, and down-blouse. These contain candid opportunistic photographs taken by men, (is it always men?). Another category is the ‘nip-slip’, an accidental exposed nipple. 

Last year I took a holiday in Devon with my two teenage daughters, one afternoon we walked along the pier watching families crabbing and fishing on a lower level nearer the sea. My eldest spotted a man with a very sophisticated, expensive SLR, a barrel of lenses protruding. He stopped now and again and leaned over the jetty to take photographs. My daughter wondered what he was taking photographs of, so as I looked down to where he had just pointed his camera, I spotted several young women with loose tops on and their cleavages exposed. “Dirty Bastard”, my daughter said, but I would have found it hard to prove her right, perhaps he was taking innocent photos of the crabs! 

A couple of years ago, there was some talk about whether it’s possible to tell a funny rape joke. To date, only Wanda Sykes has managed it, with her riff about how vaginas should be detachable so women could go out at night and not risk rape. Now we know another factor in favour of the detachable vagina, which is that women can go to Hyde Park and not have a stranger’s phone camera act like a speculum on her anatomy. So until the upskirt bill passes, I urge Sir Christopher to investigate detachable vaginas. We could even refer to them as our “chope” in his honour.

[spywareonya 37,961]

@greedyneedygirl

one of the best written neo-feminist pamphlet I ever read

and with feminist, I am not talking of hairy-armpit cock-hating tomboy

I am talking of a point of view from a woman perspective

 

Allow me to say this is marvellous

I will point it, having the chance, to all my dearest friends, because it is so well written it could really be printed and given at Street corners

I adore how you write, is so mature, yet so sharp, nonetheless never vulgar or angry

I could read you all day long you make me feel the same way Anais Nin made me feel, yet without her "sixteen at sixty" attitude, great for sex, but surpassed by your maturity

 

About the thing in itself, I love to go around with very short dresses and skirts, stockings, and no panties, we could say "bare-pussied", but I sincerely consider this to be some kind of play, a joke. I have been to high class danceclub where people saw me shamelessly exposing my pussy while dancing, dressed like I just wrote, twerking on a high Platform allowing everybody to watch me from beneath

But they were respectful

other places, they rushed at me like zombies, and we never went there again

I could indeed feel a bit invaded by an upskirt, because I believe in a transparent policy, if you wanna see my pussy, you ask, you don't photograph it without my consent!

I mean, it's mine!!! And this should be respected

For what concerns making it outlawed, to be sincere, I don't believe in the power of outlawing

It's not bad to have a law reassuring you that if you spot somebody doing it and ask the deletion of the pic, he will be compelled to comply

but in itself, I would never wanna see a man arrested or fined for upskirting me

I sincerely hope, after all the violence I witnessed in my life, that we could take life more like a joke

[Scot_Lover 1,876]

@greedyneedygirl What a brilliant piece of writing, loved every word.

We have those creeps here, tiny cameras in the toe of a shoe, or the more blatant mobile phone under a skirt of someone who is just going home on the subway. The ugliest one that made headlines was someone taking pics of school girls.

These were the ones who were caught and dealt with by the law, considerable jail time too, if I remember. Another one that I heard of was warned off so sternly, he needed stitches and a couple of plaster casts, possible blood transfusions too with his share of blood he left on the floor. No charges were ever laid, but the police did remind the population to let them do their job.

@spywareonya I can also understand your point of view too, my ladies have been bare under long dresses at The Melbourne Cup, the freedom they felt, the daring of it, and the knowledge of doing it in a crowd of 100,000 people. The fact that they also sashayed along the grass, tinkling as they went, was never mentioned, lol. 

Doing it in a controlled manner, in a place you can control is no problem, as you said, zombies came after you in one of your places, someone 'stealing' pictures of you, without your knowledge or permission is just wrong. Having those pics shared to anyone is also just wrong. 1 pic can easily be seen by 100,000 people in a night, such is the power of the Internet.

[spywareonya 37,961]

3 hours ago, owlman76 said:

unfortunately at this moment, the upskirting law was blocked here in the UK, by some total wanker of an mp who is blocking loads of decent laws because he is trying to prove a point, the only point he is proving in my opinion is what a total asshole he is!

Let me tell, maybe, but I am not sure, I say maybe, it is better this way

Outlawing is violent action, it Always makes me feel puzzled

Maybe we could still keep facing this between peers...

[spywareonya 37,961]

1 minute ago, owlman76 said:

Over her we have a rather strange thing going on, it would seem that a lot of the politicians are actively involved in the things they are asked to vote against, I suppose it's a bit like asking a turkey to vote for Christmas.

Interesting consideration...

[Brutus 2,206]

On 6/20/2018 at 3:11 PM, greedyneedygirl said:

And speaking of upstanding, let’s talk upskirting. It says a lot about how little people care about female consent that they haven’t been angrier about this before now, because it is not like upskirting has been a secret – upskirt shots of celebrities have been in the tabloids for decades. In fact, most of us have borne witness to the most notorious upskirt shot of all time, when Paul Verhoeven tricked Sharon Stone into taking off her underwear for the shooting of one infamous scene. Verhoeven promised Stone that nothing would be visible, only for Stone to realise too late that Verhoeven had not just upskirted her, but was putting the results in every multiplex around the world. I watched the film recently and you would be hard pushed to spot her pussy, such was the way the shot was edited. In fact, it was more about the gaze on the male actors faces that made the scene memorable.

*Devils advocate alert

Consent is something everyone gets a shit deal on. When female teachers sleep with underage boys, they rarely serve prison time for rape and people, men and women alike, often say the boy was lucky and liked it. Even if he did, he still couldn't consent, and sometimes such boys are ordered by court to pay child support to their rapist upon reaching adulthood. Easy to google this. That's one example. Male infant circumcision is another bodily violation that society doesn't care about. So yes, there isn't much concern over upskirting but lack of concern over consent is not something that affects women unfairly. Life sucks for us all.

With regard to celebrities, many of them will do anything for attention. It is no coincidence that so many female stars get caught climbing out of a car with dress so short it may as well be a shirt. They know damn well that cameras are waiting, and so why would they decide "Hmm, I know what I'll wear, this super short skirt and no panties, no one will notice." Have you seen some of the ridiculously revealing attire that some famous women wear to award shows? J'lo, Beyonce for example. They are showing off, nipples showing and all. Hell Beyonce shakes her ass in front of the camera in all of her videos. Rihanna and Miley Cirus basically masturbate on stage during their shows. My point is that these popular celebrities don't do a whole lot to send a message of respect my body, but quite the opposite and young impressionable girls eat it up. They are leading these girls astray. Whenever I go to the grocery store, I see countless women with transparent leggings and bright thongs showing through with a shirt that's tied in a knot at the back that just so happens to reveal as much ass as possible, others bending over with short enough skirts for their bare uncovered lips to be seen. Super tiny shorts with ass cheeks exposed. And children can see this. The fact is that many women enjoy showing themselves, it's so obvious. Now that is not to say women deserve to be upskirted, but many women are showing off their bodies intentionally, and that has consequences on social norms. Big difference between having to cover from head to toe, vs being as close to naked as possible in public. Women I work with from older eras, and who are feminist minded are disgusted by how some young women dress these days.

With regard to Sharon Stone, she was a moron for actually believing that her bits wouldn't be filmed after being asked to take her panties off. She should've said no and walked away if they insisted. She had agency. And as you said, it was hard to see anything anyway.

On 6/20/2018 at 3:11 PM, greedyneedygirl said:

There is nothing sexy about a blurry camera phone shot of an oblivious stranger’s vagina, unless you find humiliation sexy. This is about young women being shamed for going out and having fun, and men wanting to tell them they have power over them. It’s telling that the kind of men who victim-shame are the kind who patronise their own daughters.

We all have different ideas of what is sexy. For some, a blurry shot of a vagina is, it's not about humiliation at all. Upskirt shots are not my go to, but I have seen a few here and there, and it was always about seeing a nice vagina and that's it, same enjoyment as seeing urination. This has nothing to do with wanting power over women, or shaming. Men don't want power over women, we want their love and admiration. Most men wouldn't bother filming upskirts themselves, but if the footage is there, sure have a quick look and move on, as is the case with all porn that we watch. Doesn't mean those viewing are advocates of violating women's bodies. As another point about shaming, women slut shame each other far more often than men, that is easy to verify and can be seen in everyday life and on social media. Girls have been driven to suicide because of other girls relentless verbal bullying.

On 6/20/2018 at 3:11 PM, greedyneedygirl said:

A couple of years ago, there was some talk about whether it’s possible to tell a funny rape joke. To date, only Wanda Sykes has managed it, with her riff about how vaginas should be detachable so women could go out at night and not risk rape.

A joke about anything can be made and it's up to the audience whether said joke is funny or not. I've heard plenty of women (and men) joke about rape when the victim is male. They also openly joke about penises regularly and there is no concern over whether such jokes are offensive to men or young boys. I had a buddy who had to serve a month in jail for being in the car when his friends decided to rob someone without telling him. He didn't do anything but was charged anyway. The night before starting his time, he was so nervous that he was shaking and a female friend of ours said don't drop the soap and we immediately told her to fuck off. She still didn't see the problem. Still, I wouldn't say ban all such jokes.

So look, I'm being devils advocate here because there is much more to consider from my perspective, for what it's worth. To bring this back to the original post, it is a slippery slope to start criminalizing porn because the powers that be could come here next. It's a crazy train that has no brakes and could easily reach the point of speaking out against anything as illegal. A hefty fine for upskirts is something I'm okay with. A sexual assault charge would be appropriate for maybe repeat offenses. Maybe for uploading, there could be a requirement to blur faces and of course, no minors, which most sites are already against. I'm just suspicious of anything that approaches censorship and threatens freedom, and freedom involves offending people sometimes. 

[Scot_Lover 1,876]

On 21 June 2018 at 9:42 PM, owlman76 said:

There is a film, it's quite old now, 80's, called 'preaching to the perverted', it's based on a true story involving members of the British government and Prostitutes,  it's quite interesting if you can get hold of it, I could tell you more, but I'm quite enjoying life at the minute, and don't fancy disappearing one dark night.

I have this movie, and it's soundtrack on cd, it's brilliant. Actually from 1997, and it's still on IMDB.

Preaching to the Perverted

Promotional video and a view pics on there to give you an idea. I'm guessing that something like this will never be remade.

 

[Scot_Lover 1,876]

4 hours ago, Brutus said:

To bring this back to the original post, it is a slippery slope to start criminalizing porn because the powers that be could come here next. It's a crazy train that has no brakes and could easily reach the point of speaking out against anything as illegal. A hefty fine for upskirts is something I'm okay with. A sexual assault charge would be appropriate for maybe repeat offenses. Maybe for uploading, there could be a requirement to blur faces and of course, no minors, which most sites are already against. I'm just suspicious of anything that approaches censorship and threatens freedom, and freedom involves offending people sometimes. 

This is already happening here, police and courts are going after the 'revenge porn' posters, especially on mobile devices, web pages are a little harder to get convictions, but people have gone down for considerable penalties. Some sites have been blocked by our 'nanny state' government because these sites degrade women, one day I'll be denied access to this one if someone reports it. (I have a paid up VPN already)

[spywareonya 37,961]

@Brutus

Marvellous to have you back, more that you are back with a great analysis post

18 hours ago, Scot_Lover said:

This is already happening here, police and courts are going after the 'revenge porn' posters, especially on mobile devices, web pages are a little harder to get convictions, but people have gone down for considerable penalties. Some sites have been blocked by our 'nanny state' government because these sites degrade women, one day I'll be denied access to this one if someone reports it. (I have a paid up VPN already)

The war against porn is a war about civilization

A society who cannot understand and apreciate porn on a phylosophical stance will build a great degree of unconscious, ultimately resulting in violence

[Scot_Lover 1,876]

6 hours ago, spywareonya said:

 

The war against porn is a war about civilization

A society who cannot understand and apreciate porn on a phylosophical stance will build a great degree of unconscious, ultimately resulting in violence

I know, right?

If it wasn't for porn, the Internet would not have grown as fast as it did. 

[spywareonya 37,961]

13 minutes ago, Scot_Lover said:

I know, right?

If it wasn't for porn, the Internet would not have grown as fast as it did. 

I utterly agree, but I am going deeper

Why people are so scared by visceral emotions like sex, more than anything in its pornographical stance?

Because every intense energy creates feeling of puzzlment and puzzlment breaks habits therefore damages the EGO

The EGO is based upon the self-reassurement that you are all-powerful in grasping the right way to live: everytime Life shows you there were fringes you ignored, you lose the portion of self-confidence based upon EGO. Since it is based on a lie, "There is NOTHING useful outside my worldview", EGO cannot inherently be fixed. People can only discover they do NOT go mad (as unconscious propaganda terrorized them about) if they try to live without EGO.

If people are never forced to discover they can and they must live without EGO, then EGO starts to become more powerful because indeed nothing talks back against his opinions. We become addicted to it; and since EGO in itself is the de-evaluation of all that lies outside once's worldview, it is inherently (on an actually mechanical and logical-deductive stance) INTOLERANT and sadistic, because it exists only upon that very de-evalution of all beside oneself that I was speaking shortly before.

If people fails to demolish EGO through visceral emotions (fetishistic sex is painless, also irrational violence obtains the same effect but is painful and often wrong) they will become used to, and addicted to, an unconscious psychological mechanism which is inherently destructive, bigot and brutal.