An end to the great flame war of 2016?

[Admin 14,788]

By now I think that you are all well aware of each others opinions, have chosen your sides, and dug into your trenches. Arguing about the same thing everyday isn't going to fix anything or further this community in any meaningful manner. I've done my best to make amends by apologizing for my poor wording, paying for a free cam show for our members, and creating a board for you to voice your opinions in hopes that it would lead to a timely dissolution of this flame war that's been going on for more than two weeks now. At this point I am not sure what else I can do. So I am asking you, how do we put an end to this and move on?

[Admin 14,788]

I see the problem simply. There was a misleading announcement made, and people became upset when they found out that “free show, with tipping encouraged” actually meant that “No charge to come in, but “tipping is mandatory to see anything other than a clothed woman talking. Rather than immediately taking responsibility and apologizing for the confusion you and MFL tried to explain it away as “industry standard” which only made things worse.

The real problem began when Steve decided to remove a post that he deemed critical of Kimberly. I read that post prior to Steve’s actions, and not only found nothing wrong with it, but actually thought about clicking the “like” or “agree” button. I chose not to do so because I did not want to make it appear that I was blaming you, the site owner. When questioned by the member whose post had been removed, Steve, rather than calmly explaining his (in my opinion faulty) reasoning chose to demand that the member start a new thread (which gives the appearance of hiding the complaint). When the member did not immediately do so, Steve locked the original thread.

The member started a new thread and even MFL commented that censoring a member was not the correct thing to do. When Steve continued to attack the member, and MFL tried to say that because the posted did not write in correct English, he thought that it was a language issue, I felt that I had to step in and defend the member. Saying that someone who responds to an advertisement of a free show is "Fucking Cheap" is a personal attack. I tried to respectfully point out that the poster had a valid complaint, and it was not the amount of the money, it was the fact that the terms and conditions of the show were not as advertised, Steve took this as attacking him and reducing his power and authority.

He obviously complained to you, and you chose to attempt to force the moderation team to agree to never disagree in public, but only challenge the actions of another moderator privately. When I refused to make a promise that I knew I could not keep, you fired me.

Steve has continued to act as if he is the all powerful and mighty wizard of mod, and any comments that do not totally support him are taken as personal attacks. He will make comments and then put myself and MPT on ignore, so that he does not have to see how he appears to others. He appears to be throwing a childish fit, because some of us have looked behind the curtain, and have dared to disagree with his actions.

When I took the moderator position (after being asked to do so, not asking for the job myself) I agreed because I wanted to help the site and the members. I considered moderator powers to be a tool, not something that made me “better” than the membership .

I consider the members the most important part of the site, and when a member is attacked, be it by another member or a moderator, I will express my opinion.

It is not a flame war, it is a reaction to the over bearing actions of a moderator more concerned about how he appears and his power than the good of the site

I get it, believe me, but your response doesn't answer my question. How do we put an end to this?

[Admin 14,788]

Admin,

With all due respect, the problem isn't the poor wording of your advertisement. You quickly apologized and went beyond the call of duty by actually providing a free show. The problem here is that one of your moderators (and to a lesser degree a business partner) attacked another member (and the moderator in question has a history of attacking members, such as myself, when they don't agree with him) and then did his damnedest to blame it on the member, another moderator, and anyone else that doesn't agree with him.

Being that he continues to act this way and blame others for his actions, it appears, at least to this member, that such behavior by moderators of this site is acceptable. It shouldn't be. Personally I think that moderators should set an example for the other members and not attack other members. Calling someone "fucking cheap" should not be acceptable. Waiting to apologize for such actions and then blaming it on another moderator should not be acceptable. Making snide comments and then using special mod powers to silence a member (as in my case) should not be acceptable. Calling members members names, either via PM or in public, should not be acceptable. A moderator should set an example, not act like a child and throw a tantrum until he either gets his way or runs off those who disagree.

While the confusion about the free show may appear to have started this; it isn't the problem. The problem is the systematic abuse of members by one of your moderators. Since he repeatedly gets his way, and has even started to answer for you, it appears that you don't care how he acts. New members are just as likely to see that as they are the continuing argument about it. Granted he spends more time here than anyone else and contributes greatly, but it shouldn't be a license to act with impunity.

There should be a code of conduct for moderators to follow when interacting with members. It's expected that members interact with others without name calling, snide comments, etc. Having moderators that act this way was a reason many left another site to join this one as soon as word got out it was here. If moderators (particularly Steve as I've never seen Wetman act this way) treat members with respect and courtesy you probably wouldn't have to worry establishing a rule that they all present a "united front" in decisions. That's just treating a symptom of a bigger problem.

The problem here isn't the confusion about a free show that wasn't free as you've already addressed that. The problem is the behavior of one of your moderators and the appearance that you don't care how he acts. That second part may not be true, but it appears to be.

Sincerely,

MPT

Thank you for your constructive input. I will make a note of it on the Moderators board. I am hoping that we can address this and move on.

[wetmanjf 2,787]

I have chosen to stay out of all this because I really had no part in it to begin with. I agree that some damage has been done to the sight. If I went to a site and all I saw was people arguing and fighting I probably wouldn't have much desire to return. I have no intentions of trying to say who was right and who was wrong...and sadly what harm has been done...is done. But my opinion is what is best for the site at this point is to put the past behind us and move forward with no further negative comments , name calling or finger pointing. It's like a fire. It has burned and done damage but if you leave it alone it will extinguish itself. But every negative comment posted is like gasoline...you throw it on the dying embers and the fire flares up again and continues to burn and cause more damage. I agree with the admin. I think it's time to put an end to all of this and let us enjoy the site for what it is...I'd hate to see the site destroyed over something like this.

Just MHO....Wetman

[steve25805 126,015]

When you allow damage to be done, and there are no repercussions to those whose abusive actions caused the damage, this only encourages those people to continue to act in the same manner.

Too much harm has been done to too many people to expect everyone to sit in a circle and sing Kumbaya. Members have been insulted and have left. For example, Goldenpiss has not returned since he was attacked by a moderator. How many others have quietly left rather than risking facing the same treatment?

Attempting to "move on" actually excuses the actions that caused the problem.

Goldenpiss left after you and Wetman got on his case for continued whining even though the problem had been addressed. And after you personally threatened to delete many of his posts if he did not desist. At which point he decided to leave - allegedly. Because he has posted pics since. So don't try and pin that one on me.

And who else has left?

Also, I myself had apologised for suggesting Goldenpiss was being cheap anyway. What more could I do? Your issues with me were not solely in defence of that "attack" but became a public blanket bombing attack on every moderation decision I made which made it impossible for me to moderate the forum alongside you. Disagreements over moderating decisions should be discussed privately - as they have been in the past with much more effective outcomes. That is all Admin asked for and you refused.

Who else have I insulted, by the way? All I ever did to MPT was make some mocking comment in chat about his juvenile habit of scattering negative icons all around the place against those he has a grudge against. To which he went off on one again for hours on end. And the root cause of his problem is simple. He displayed prolonged hostility to a new member. I had to warn him and delete some of the worst posts. He has held a grudge against me ever since and has attached himself to others to try and re-edit himself into one of the unjustly attacked.

Who else have I insulted? Who are these "many people"?

Because people have contacted me privately to express their disgust at the behaviour of both of you - and their disappointed surprise in your case

And what is it you want? My removal as a mod? I have already offered to step down but Admin wants me to stay. Me to be banned for a week or two? Be banned permanently? Get a public reprimand that is to your liking? And what precisely for? What is it that you want exactly?

I have been trying my hardest to move on simply by ignoring you and MPT, apparently the only ones with any major personal problems. I have even put you both on ignore so I cannot even read your diatribes. I have removed that ignore for this thread only purely because it is Admin's thread.

I apologised to Goldenpiss, though he eventually threatened to leave anyway after you cracked down on him. You sought to systematically undermine me as a mod, whilst MPT has been pursuing a vengeful vendetta. Neither of you show the slightest sign of wanting to apologise for that.

I am perfectly willing to draw a line and move on. Exactly as Admin wants. And the entire forum would benefit greatly from that. But you refuse to move on unless there are negative consequences for me. So spell them out. What is it you want from me or from Admin? Do you want me banned? My moderation duties removed? Me publicly hauled over the coals by Admin to a tune you like the sound of? What exactly do you want?

I'd like you back as a mod under Admin's not unreasonable terms. And some recognition that your public criticisms went too far. But I won't get that because I appear to be the only one who isn't infallible in his own mind here.

But I AM willing to move on anyway. What will it take for you to do so? Why not spell it out?

[steve25805 126,015]

When you allow damage to be done, and there are no repercussions to those whose abusive actions caused the damage, this only encourages those people to continue to act in the same manner.

Actually there were repercussions. Admin introduced new rules for mods to prevent the kind of damage you were causing. You refused to adhere to them. He fired you.

I have been willing to apologise for any wrong on my part. As has Admin. No one else involved here has shown the slightest sign of similar humility.

[steve25805 126,015]

I see the problem simply. There was a misleading announcement made, and people became upset when they found out that “free show, with tipping encouraged” actually meant that “No charge to come in, but “tipping is mandatory to see anything other than a clothed woman talking. Rather than immediately taking responsibility and apologizing for the confusion you and MFL tried to explain it away as “industry standard” which only made things worse.

The real problem began when Steve decided to remove a post that he deemed critical of Kimberly. I read that post prior to Steve’s actions, and not only found nothing wrong with it, but actually thought about clicking the “like” or “agree” button. I chose not to do so because I did not want to make it appear that I was blaming you, the site owner. When questioned by the member whose post had been removed, Steve, rather than calmly explaining his (in my opinion faulty) reasoning chose to demand that the member start a new thread (which gives the appearance of hiding the complaint). When the member did not immediately do so, Steve locked the original thread.

The member started a new thread and even MFL commented that censoring a member was not the correct thing to do. When Steve continued to attack the member, and MFL tried to say that because the posted did not write in correct English, he thought that it was a language issue, I felt that I had to step in and defend the member. Saying that someone who responds to an advertisement of a free show is "Fucking Cheap" is a personal attack. I tried to respectfully point out that the poster had a valid complaint, and it was not the amount of the money, it was the fact that the terms and conditions of the show were not as advertised, Steve took this as attacking him and reducing his power and authority.

He obviously complained to you, and you chose to attempt to force the moderation team to agree to never disagree in public, but only challenge the actions of another moderator privately. When I refused to make a promise that I knew I could not keep, you fired me.

Steve has continued to act as if he is the all powerful and mighty wizard of mod, and any comments that do not totally support him are taken as personal attacks. He will make comments and then put myself and MPT on ignore, so that he does not have to see how he appears to others. He appears to be throwing a childish fit, because some of us have looked behind the curtain, and have dared to disagree with his actions.

When I took the moderator position (after being asked to do so, not asking for the job myself) I agreed because I wanted to help the site and the members. I considered moderator powers to be a tool, not something that made me “better” than the membership .

I consider the members the most important part of the site, and when a member is attacked, be it by another member or a moderator, I will express my opinion.

It is not a flame war, it is a reaction to the over bearing actions of a moderator more concerned about how he appears and his power than the good of the site

This is a very slanted misrepresentation. I asked Goldenpiss to start another thread not to silence him but to prevent the existing thread being derailed by personal complaints. As I have repeatedly stated. I also stated that in my opinion, the post by Goldenpiss that I deleted, especially when taken in conjunction with his dislikes of every positive comment about her, looked hostile to a new member. You obviously interpreted that post in a very different light to me. But my actions were a genuine attempt to uphold the rules based upon my own interpretations of it, and not any attempt to simply silence him. Is it not possible that either or both of us may have misinterpreted something in opposite directions to suit our own subconscious bias? If that is so is it not surely a genuine mistake by either or both of us? And nothing more malicious? And as for me asking him to start another thread rather than starting it myself, I thought that he would know how badly he wanted to talk about it and what he wanted to say. This involved no attempt to silence him either. Had that been my intention I'd have just been deleting everything, period! I also felt that that particular criticism clearly was in no way significant enough to warrant a public dressing down from you, nor a defence of someone against attack.

Yes, his constant whining - which later annoyed you sufficientlyfor you to threaten to delete his posts en masse, was something I did allow to irritate me into calling him "fucking cheap". I have admitted that this was unwise, and it was also unprofessional. I long ago now apologised for that.

I think I could probably go along with allowing a mod to publicly criticise another mod for attacking a member, if Admin were willing to agree to that too. But only if the public criticism were limited to that, and accompanied by immediately raising the issue privately with Admin, so that he may have a word with the mod concerned if necessary. But wholesale public criticism of everything a mod does beyond that narrow aim does damage to the mods and the forum, and this should be dealt with in private, as it has been in the past with far more effective results. Do you remember raising your private comcerns with me about my deletion of certain pics by Jane Doe? You actually won me round very quickly into admitting that I was wrong.

Ultimately, she left not because of me - she and I got on exceptionally well privately - but because of your own public actions, but I never chose to make a public issue out of that so will not do so further now.

And you say Admin has created a monster who thinks he runs the place? I think no such thing. I know who is in charge here. It isn't me. Nor is it you. And were I concerned only with how I look, how is it that of the two of us, I am the only one ever capable of admitting to being in the wrong or of apologising for anything? Fact is, you seemed to think you had the right to decide what good practice was and was not here, and to go around reprimanding other mods and even Admin for not doing things to your satisfaction. I have never criticised the guy in charge. I know he's in charge. If I did feel I needed to take any issue with him I'd do so privately, not plaster it all over the forum.

And as for me only caring about power, odd that twice now I have offered to resign my position as mod for the good of the forum, and both times had Admin saying he wanted me to stay. Honestly, if this sort of guff is what comes my way just for trying to help out as a mod, who needs it? I am only still here because Admin has asked me to be.

And what is this power that I have? I cannot ban anyone except very new members. Only Admin can do that. If I were to delete a post or lock a thread, I cannot prevent it from being reposted immediately, nor sanction in any way anyone who openly flouts the rules in this or any other way. I have to go pleading to Admin if I wanted that to happen. And members have the protected right in the rants and complaints section to bitch endlessly about anything we say or do if they wish. Mods here are powerless compared to most mods on most forums. We are here as servants and not masters. In terms of the exercise of power, being a mod here is hardly any kind of power trip.

And your notion that a monster has been created that has Admin dancing to my tune and me running around like I run the place, is just insulting nonsense to Admin. I do not run the place or have any delusions of doing so. Admin is an experienced guy who knows his stuff when it comes to running forums. To assume that he dances to the tune of any mere mod on any of them is ridiculous. I did not "make" Admin come up with any "gag rule" as you call it, either. He made his own mind up after his displeasure at your conduct.

On what basis do you assume I am some out of control monster? When have I ever disobeyed Admin or done anything that was against his wishes? What do you have to base such a charge upon, beyond a post of mine asking for anyone interested in becoming a mod to let it be known, either publicly or privately to a mod or to Admin? Mods used to post stuff like that all the time on Peesearch. No one there - least of all you - ever levelled such a charge against them. And the issue of potential new mods had already been discussed privately, with Scot_Lover's name being mentioned as a possibility. All the thread did was to ask any interested persons to let it be known. No mod has any authority or power to appoint other mods. It ought to have been obvious that whomever was approached, it would have to go through Admin and be decided by him. Mods would be no more than messengers passing on names, and possible advisors if asked our opinions. Your attempt to spin that thread into some sort of usurpation of power by me is something that I cannot help but suspect is now part of some malicious agenda on your part towards me. Because it takes some doing to spin that innocent little thread into evidence of a monster out of control.

[steve25805 126,015]

How many times must I tell you?

I left negative icons on your posts because you were incessantly whining about Peesearch on that thread. Using the icons isn't against the rules... If I had a beef about being reprimanded for breaking the rules, I'd also have a problem with Wetman and EG as they both agreed with you. I don't. That's just your out to excuse your behavior towards others. And it wasn't hours upon hours either. But, I guess deleting everything is a good way to cover your arse there, huh?

What's this shit with a moderator ignoring people and then repeatedly telling everyone about it? That's the way a three year old acts. If you want to ignore me, fine. Just be a grown man and do it. Quit telling everyone, as if you're getting some sort of prize for it, and do it already. Wait... You've already made an excuse to un-ignore me again... Grow up.

I wasn't going to say another word since Admin was nice enough to read my thoughts on the matter. However, you had to come right back and drag me into it. This is why it doesn't end. You don't want me to say anything else: Shut up about me. It's that simple.

You use insulting terms like "grow up" and "be a man" and likening someone to a three year old, which are borderline rule breaks in themselves concerning insulting or abusive behaviour and designed to be provocative.

And I actually switched what I was saying about Peesearch to the exact opposite, yet you disliked both, lol.

I had shut up before by the way and we had several days of silence, until a peacemaking post by another member concerning Walrus and myself was seized upon by you as another opportunity to go off on one. That's why I put you on ignore because I no longer wanted to see it. Don't care how childish you think it is because it is actually more adult just to walk away, which I will do again now. So yes I will be ignoring you again from now, even in this thread. You bring nothing to this forum anymore but discord, malice, childish and petty tantrums, and constant negativity, then try to project it onto me.

I know you suffer from incurable last worditis, so give it your best shot. I won't be looking at it.

[steve25805 126,015]

You want me to spell it out. I think you are smart enough to know what you need to do, but your ego will not allow you to do so

I have already twice in the last two weeks offered to resign as a mod, if that is what you think I ought to know what needs to be done. Only because I am tired of it and can see that you are doing this forum terrible damage in pursuit of your personal vendetta, and that this might stop if I were to go. But Admin has not wanted me to go. And mods being seen to be hounded out by forum malcontents also sets a very bad precedent. Admin really would be creating a monster then. If you then returned as a mod under those circumstances, you'd be utterly insufferable, a true monster made, and I'd be done here obviously.

And you accuse me of being all superior. Only one of is is thus far claiming infallibility in all he has said and done and apologised for nothing. And for you to accuse me of having a big ego is just about the most hypocritical thing I have heard in a very long time. You have an ego and the size of Manhattan, and all the wounded pride that needs avenging to go with it.

Besides, this is not about me doing what you think needs to be done, under the arrogant assumption that I must see things your way. Admin wants to know what YOU think needs to happen for you to move on, so spell it out. You and MPT are doing this forum tremendous harm, and blaming me for it. Were it not for your endless rants these past two weeks, things would have settled down very nicely and this forum would be going from strength to strength. So it is incumbent upon YOU to state what you need to see happen for you to move on, and not assume that I'll do it for you. If I saw everything your way, we'd never have gotten here.

[steve25805 126,015]

There is a way for moderators to ban even long standing members. If you remember I actually was the one who figured out the process and all three mods knew about it. The only reason you have not banned me is because you know that it will make you look bad.

Nonsense. That way requires deleting every post a member has made. Admin has made it clear in the past after I deleted every post by Jane Doe on her own request, that he did bot approve of such wholesale deletions - incidentally one instance where he did disagree with actions I took and supported you if you remember correctly.

It was accepted when you did it to that troll because he had posted very few worthwhile posts. But your own postcount is very high, and includes a lot of very good content and contributions. Admin would be most displeased if I went around deleting it all.

That method of yours cannot be used against long standing members who have contributed lots of good stuff for this reason.

Admin's wishes need to be respected.

For the same reason. even if I had the ability to ban you without post deletions, I would not do so without first clearing it with him, and to be honest I'd prefer leaving those decisions up to him. Though I believe both you and MPT have been behaving in ways that could warrant a ban. You are lucky that Admin is so tolerant, and prefers to try to resolve matters.

As to me "instructing" rather than "asking", I was acting for the good of the forum as I saw it in preventing thread derailment without banning criticism. Whether or not to desist from thread derailment wasn't a choice being offered but something that had to be insisted upon. You think I should merely have "asked" because you believe he should have had the right to derail that thread and pursue his complaint there.

[pbl 42]

So I am asking you, how do we put an end to this and move on?

Permit mods to publicly criticize one another when defending another member from public attacks. Drop the stupid "unified front" canard.

[steve25805 126,015]

Permit mods to publicly criticize one another when defending another member from public attacks. Drop the stupid "unified front" canard.

If that's as far as it went, then fine. But Egwalrus went far beyond defending a member from attack and effectively started criticising everything another mod did. Defending members from attack publicly might be acceptable if that was all that was happening, but going beyond that to criticise every moderation decision publicly undermines mods. How can it not? That is best dealt with privately as it has been effectively in the past. Which is no doubt why Admin made his not unreasonable rule.

[pbl 42]

Don't play me for a fool. I saw what you did and what you didn't do. You are conflating things Egwalrus has said more recently with things he said before he was stricken from the mod club.

[steve25805 126,015]

Don't play me for a fool. I saw what you did and what you didn't do. You are conflating things Egwalrus has said more recently with things he said before he was stricken from the mod club.

I am doing no such thing! I am talking exactly about things Egwalrus said as a mod, and his criticisms went far beyond defending a member against being called "cheap". Everything from a post deletion, to who should have opened another thread, to criticism of my desire to want another thread opened instead of allowing the derailment of an existing one, etc. None of which of course has anything to do with defending someone against attack and is pure criticism of moderator decisions.

Now, how exactly is laying all this to rest helped in the least by you shoving your nose into it?

[steve25805 126,015]

If wanted to criticize your actions, I would have plenty of choices. I defended a member from you attacks, and your actions that I commented on were part of those attacks

No they were not. I have repeatedly explained my motivations for all that I did - avoidance of thread derailment, deletion of a post that seemed hostile to a new member, etc, which were in no way part of any attack. You have always been conflating my "fucking cheap" remark with other actions that were wholly legitimately motivated, in order to defend wholesale public criticism.

So it seems that all Admin has achieved in this thread is provide another venue for this bullshit by persuading me to remove you from my ignore list here. And still you refuse to spell out for him exactly what it is you expect in order to move on. Do something constructive and spell it out!

The rest of the bullshit is getting very old now and going around in the same well worn circle and getting nowhere. So one of us has to walk away from this BS here too, and it looks like it is going to have to be me. I'll no longer be responding to you here, thereby ceasing to throw gasoline onto your fire, as you appear to want.

[Kuriolegion 4]

I have not been here long. As such I am aware my input will have little bearing on what will no doubt continue.

When I joined the forum I did so because I seemed to share an interest with the other members. It is not easy for me to talk about even in the relative anonymity of this format but it was encouraging to see like minded souls out there from all walks of life. I have been mostly passive in my time on the forum, it takes a while for me to feel comfortable. But in that time I have been able to watch things unfold. For the most part this is a good place, I hope that it flourishes and that the arguments eventually end. I'm not sure I see that happening.

It becomes a matter of impression. I started by looking at threads and posts that piqued my interest. In the last week or so I've mostly followed the arguments. That's not a good thing but it's illustrative of the focus that dispute and disagreement can bring. The right to speak out and comment is not something to be disregarded or discouraged. That works for both sides of any argument. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and viewpoint. But eventually the arguments on both sides reach a stage where there is no movement, no more to be said and no room for compromise and at that stage it becomes something else and the point of the debate/argument shifts.

All this does is alienate me. I can see any argument being dissected and every word a person uses being picked apart. While it might be the case that the argument is confined to just a few people anyone who tries to interject or offer an opinion only seems to add fuel to the fire when it is clear that is nt the intention. In the end the drive to win the fight seems to be what matters and sadly there is no such thing as victory in an argument like this.

From my own point of view I have no wish to be involved in the dispute and all it does is draw attention away from the more positive aspects of the forum. I don't want to be part of the problem nor do I want to see a fight continue on forever. My response is a simple one. I choose to stop coming here. I hope the situation changes but right now it seems toxic to me and I don't think it encourages anyone to engage with the forum at all.

Goodbye all and best wishes to those that remain.

[wetmanjf 2,787]

"All this does is alienate me. I can see any argument being dissected and every word a person uses being picked apart. While it might be the case that the argument is confined to just a few people anyone who tries to interject or offer an opinion only seems to add fuel to the fire when it is clear that is not the intention. In the end the drive to win the fight seems to be what matters and sadly there is no such thing as victory in an argument like this. My response is a simple one. I choose to stop coming here."

It's sad to say but I feel this will happen more and more. Before long the site will fall apart just as others have done in the past.

Wetman

[steve25805 126,015]

"All this does is alienate me. I can see any argument being dissected and every word a person uses being picked apart. While it might be the case that the argument is confined to just a few people anyone who tries to interject or offer an opinion only seems to add fuel to the fire when it is clear that is not the intention. In the end the drive to win the fight seems to be what matters and sadly there is no such thing as victory in an argument like this. My response is a simple one. I choose to stop coming here."

It's sad to say but I feel this will happen more and more. Before long the site will fall apart just as others have done in the past.

Wetman

This is why we need to draw a line and move on and just stop. But some don't want that. They want my head on a platter at any cost, even to the forum itself. It is about revenge and wounded pride now.

I think ultimately the only salvation for this forum now is either for Admin to give them what they want and ban me, or to ban them. Or even ban all of us. Sad to say that this forum is more important than me, or Walrus, or MPT.

Whilst I am willing to draw a line and move on and stop it now, others refuse to unless punitive action is taken against me to salve their egos and wounded pride, the exact nature of which action they refuse to spell out.

I am willing to walk away from this forum entirely if Admin wishes. Peesearch knows I'd be a great asset in terms of good contributions if I focussed my attention exclusively there. I can be happy elsewhere if Admin thinks it best for me to leave. But I think it would be disastrous for the future of this place if Admin allows himself to be dictated to by forum malcontents on a mission with a grudge.

[Admin 14,788]

Egwalrus, I sincerely appreciate the time and effort that you have put into this site. But, your continued vendetta against Steve is counter productive and a distraction from the true purpose of this site. I understand that Steve has said somethings that you find inflammatory, but at this point he's done with this fight and ready to move on. From all accounts it is you and only you who is continuing to fan the flames here. My hope is that you can put this behind you, and put your effort and energy into making this a better place instead of trying to tear it down. In any case, this nonsense needs to stop. So here's the deal, if you choose to continue this campaign of negativity and vengeance you will be banned for 1 week, after that it will be two weeks, and the final ban will be permanent. Let me make this clear, I don't want to ban you and I hope that you can agree to move on, but if you choose to continue this behavior the ban will be no one's fault but your own. I am doing this for the good of this site and for those who are tried of the constant drama and arguing. Going forward I would suggest adding Steve to your ignore list and coming to either me or Wetmanjf if any new issues should arise.

- Admin

[jodi69 19]

It's not possible to ignore a moderator. :frown:

[Pete2304 36]

Gentlemen,

I am quite sure you all have more important things to deal with in your lives than this argument which, regardless of who is right or wrong (and from what I can deduce, it's not so much what's happened in the last week, more a case of things people have wanted to get off their chests for a while), there surely has to be an end to it.

As I said a few days ago, for me this row is surely not great for the image of the forum. I have no idea if it's run for profit, with the premium videos etc, I can only assume it is but this is getting ridiculous.

There are real problems in the world, surely it's time to either shake hands or just drop it.

Debating about politics or sport etc etc is one thing but this is going nowhere.

[jodi69 19]

I think you misunderstood. I was only commenting that it is impossible to ignore Steve because he is a moderator. The site will not allow that. :banghead: Since he suggested that other guy do so I pointed out it is not an option. :frown: Maybe he'll change it so we can because I would like to ignore him myself.

[Wagger1234 7]

For goodness sake. If you could all step outside yourselves and look in, you would be appalled at what you see.

Steve - stop defending yourself it is pointless as Egwalrus simply uses any post by you to carry on his disagreement.

Egwalrus. Be a good sport and let the matter drop. You think you are sticking your sword into Steve, but you are wounding your own reputation just as much.

A month of nothing more being said would do us all good and perhaps be very healing..