Dr.P

19 hours ago, kitty and mimi said:

do western men consider long trough squat toilets in Chinese ladies rooms to be toilets for sluts? although the women who squat to pee inside the bathroom are not visible to men in gender segregation environment, the women are highly visible to each other inside the bathroom since they have no door, and only have partitions that are several feet tall. how would western men think if their wife or daughters go to squat to pee in Chinese bathroom with long through open squat toilets when the couples or family travel to China? do they think women who choose long through squat toilets are more slutty than women who choose western toilet stalls?

ABSOLUTELY NOT! in answer to all of your questions! The squat toilets, and bathrooms containing them, in Asia, are part of the Asian environment, so women have NO CHOICE, but to use them, or pee outside, or wet themselves, or try to hold it, until they find another choice. My Chinese wife, who has been fully accustomed to Western toilets, for more than 50 years,  was in this situation, when we visited Thailand, many years ago, and she told me about it. So I can empathize and sympathize with women who have not encountered this situation previous to their trips to Asia.  There is no way any human, male or female, can sit down, looking prim and proper, on a squat toilet!

On the other hand, some men, both Asian and Western, may find the sight of women peeing in squat toilets to be much sexier than seeing them sitting down, with all of the interesting action hidden. So there is a basis for the Chinese men's preferences for women to use squat toilets, which you mentioned in your post, especially if they are turned on by watching women peeing. 

In strong contrast, Western toilets are designed for sitting, so hovering or squatting over them is purely a choice of the user, whether she (or he) is driven by perceived cleanliness, neatness, or convenience, exhibitionism (intentional slutty behavior), or other motivations, like revenge against the provider of the public bathroom, for example.  So, to answer your question about the attitudes of Western men, toward these situations, most of them would probably sympathize strongly with their wives, sisters, mothers, and daughters, who are faced with these difficult choices, just to empty their bladders, and would not think of them as slutty, at all. And similarly, they would not think of Asian women, who choose to use squat toilets, of any design, as more slutty than those who choose Western style facilities, if they are available. All of these choices are based on the style of facilities which are readily available, locally.

But on the other hand, men of any ethnicity, who are turned on by watching women pee, would naturally prefer to watch them use squat toilets, or hover over Western toilets, because a lot more detail is visible, in those situations. I am one of those men, who has those interests. Since I was born and raised in the West, I became aware of women hovering over Western toilets at a much earlier age than I became aware of Asian squat toilets, where that was the only choice. I find both styles of peeing, hovering and squatting, very erotic to watch. Thanks for starting and continuing this thread.    

7 minutes ago, kitty and mimi said:

I found a picture of Japanese policewoman peeing in a Japanese website:

https://duga.jp/ppv/piss-1215/

Great pictures! Thanks for sharing! Love the uniform skirts and forward-directed streams! Wish there was a way to view them larger.

17 hours ago, kitty and mimi said:

do those groups that pee in hovering position habitually include policewomen?

I have read a lot of webpages and saw a lot of movie scenes about women in different cultures, ages,personality, marriage and relationship status, with their same sex friends, with heterosexual male partners,peeing in different postures and styles,in various of public places, including shopping malls, movie theaters,schools and female prison (Puyallup jail which I mentioned in my another post), but none of them mention policewomen. I am curious how policewomen pee in public bathroom and do they pee significant differently from other women.

Good question. I have no ideas or observations. The variety of your observations is quite impressive! The closest I came, was when I dated a policeman's wife, very briefly, and saw her peeing on a Western toilet, once. She sat all the way down, with her thighs a couple of inches apart, panties slightly above her knees, a very common style, in the West. If I may express some guesses about policewomen, I would think that they may occasionally find themselves in awkward situations, where they are outdoors, or in stationary vehicles, and/or in the company of male officers, and need to find imaginative ways to pee, squatting, standing, or sitting, with or without toilets or urinals. Their uniform clothing, pants, skirts, etc., may have a major influence, of course. I wish that some of the cop shows, on TV, would embrace these potential situations!

Returning to the premise of this thread, concerning urethra and pee angles, I would like to clarify one of my remarks, from my post of yesterday, in which I implied that hovering pee styles were necessarily less neat, or more messy, than seated styles. This depends critically on pee angles. It may be true if the pee angle is downward, or slightly forward, but it may not be true, at all, for women whose pee stream or spray is directed strongly forward, as it is, in many Asian women. If they squat or hover, their pee can be very neat, with practice, even over Western toilets.

On the other hand, if they sit all the way down, on Western toilets, without bending strongly forward, their stream or spray may wet their thighs, panties, and the front of the toilet seat, making an impressive, (and delightful) mess, in my view. This may be one reason why peeing forward is discouraged, in Western girls, some of whom pee in this direction, naturally, as they grow up. The ones who may have the most trouble, in this regard, are those who pee with their legs together, for reasons of modesty, or perceived neatness, unless their streams are directed straight downward. So the Western women's pee culture may be based on downward directed streams, for reasons of neatness and modesty, while Asian women's pee culture, based on squat toilets, encourages forward-directed streams, for reasons of neatness and cleanliness.  From your comments on the attitudes of Chinese men, they may be aware of, and tuned into this vibe.

As a straight, Western man, with a lifelong interest in women's peeing styles, I have one fundamental question on the motivations of women, when they choose their personal peeing styles: Is cleanliness or neatness their strongest motivating factor, or is it privacy or modesty, hiding the action from others, of either gender? Or is it another factor, like latent exhibitionism, in some bolder individuals?  Some answers from the ladies would be appreciated! Dr.P.

1 hour ago, kitty and mimi said:

it was during the pandemic, her boyfriend feel that if she go to public bathroom without squat toilet, she should learn to pee in semi squat position on western toilet. although she tried that before, it sprayed everywhere and make mess the toilet seat.

https://www.dcard.tw/f/relationship/p/235625379

I saw a Chinese webpage use a disrespectful term 肉便器 (slut) to refer to Chinese women who have habit of  sitting down to pee in public bathroom. those Chinese men seem to believe that women who sitting down on public toilet while peeing  symbolize promiscuity and sexual infidelity. hovering while peeing in public toilet symbolize sexual purity and fidelity.it consider the habit of sitting down to pee on dirty toilet seat in public bathroom is akin to promiscuity,because too many women have sat on the western toilets. just like women who have sex with many men, who already have sex with many women, are likely to be infect with sexual transmitted disease,women who have habit to sit down to pee in public bathroom that many women have sat on will likely to infected with disease.  those men seem to believe that women who are faithful to her husband should only sit on the toilet while peeing at home, and they should hover to pee in public toilet, or hold their pee until they arrive home.women who don't want to hold their bladder, don't want to hover, feel that sitting on public toilet is more convenient to relieve,willing to sit down on dirty toilet seats to relieve their bladder, are like those who don't want to control their sexual desire, and willing to have sex with any men to relieve their sexual drive. women who have sat on many different toilets in public places (like movie theaters, shopping mall, restaurant and such)  are considered likely to relief their sexual drives in the same way that they relief their bladder, with the men whoever they met without fear of sexual transmit disease, just like relief their bladder on public toilet where ever they went without fear of transmit disease. women who sit down to pee only if they were at home, while hover to pee in public, are consider to be more faithful to their husband.

I feel it is very interesting if Chinese men do pay attention to the peeing posture that their partners use in public bathroom because they will probably  never been able to see it personally in a gender segregation bathroom environment. it will be even more interesting if those Chinese women really pee in a position that their husband expect them to do, since they never need to worry about being seen by their husband inside ladies room.

Very interesting psychology attributed to Chinese men, if true. I think that Western men's views may be different. When using presumably clean Western toilets at home, women can sit down, be comfortable, neat, clean, very modest, and private, when seen by other women, or even by men. When using public facilities, some of these women may hover, to avoid contact with perceived filth, but sacrifice some privacy and neatness, if they tend to spray, when hovering. Or they may use paper seat covers, or sit directly on the seats, after wiping them. This practice is far less common, because it is a hassle.

Watching a woman hover and spray when she pees, can be a very sexy, arousing experience, for a man who is lucky enough to see one, as compared to a woman sitting down on a toilet, especially if she keeps her legs together, as many Western women do. Women who hover, habitually, are usually those who use public toilets very often, almost exclusively, like single, career women, actresses, waitresses, and secretaries, rather than women who spend most of their days at home. They may be more accustomed to the increased visibility and messiness associated with their hovering pee styles, and take it in stride. So Western men may perceive them as more comfortable with nudity and messiness, or more slutty. If they insist on sitting down on public toilets, they may be viewed as excessively concerned with privacy and/or messiness, rather than promiscuity.

On 1/10/2023 at 2:42 PM, gldenwetgoose said:

I know adverts for incontinence products don't quite count as 'discussion'...    But I've just spotted the most aesthetically wonderfully pleasing advert on UK TV.

Here it is in Spanish (didn't spot the English language version on Youtube, but exactly the same actor).

Tell me if you disagree, but the advertising campaign worked brilliantly - I'm sold.

Well, looking at the adverts, in the broadest context, they can be viewed as discussion with the purpose of selling a product, providing supporting data describing that product. lol... I'm very pleased, but not surprised, to hear that the campaign worked so well. I thought that the model/actress would be very attractive to both males and females, due to her well chosen clothing and erotic body language. She shows just enough thigh to be sexy to males, but not enough to turn females off. 

Love the TENA Discreet advert! The model takes a very sexy pose, sitting on the toilet!

1) Peeing on a partner 5

2) Being peed on by a partner 7

3) Peeing in your partner's face 0

4) Having your own face peed on 5

5) Having your partner drink your pee from the source 3

6) Drinking your partner's pee from the source 10

7) Watching your partner piss all over the carpet 3

😎 Yourself pissing all over the carpet in front of your partner 3

9) Wetting yourself while your partner watches 0

10) Watching your partner wet him/her self 10

11) Having your partner hold your dick/part your labia while you pee 7

12) Being totally desperate in front of your partner 5

13) Seeing your partner totally desperate 10

14) Pissing in full public view 0

15) Watching your partner or any other sexually attractive person piss in full public view 10

16) You and your partner watching pee porn together 7

I would add a category to 11. Too bad it was apparently overlooked: 11a) Parting a partner's labia, while she pees 10

@Mitch11, gldenwetgoose, et al.  One of my first posts on PeeFans was on this subject, based on experiences with a g.f., "Melissa," (or "Michelle" ?) long ago. The post was a short fictional story, based on my own real experiences, when I was licking her. As she neared orgasm, she would occasionally stop me, warning "If you keep on licking that spot, your face might get awfully wet, in a few seconds! I feel like I'm going to pee!"

My usual response was, "Go for it! I'd love it!" which, incidentally, was the truth. (Neither of us would have enjoyed sleeping in a wet bed, so we always placed several layers of towels under us, to absorb any fluids.)

I would always continue licking the exact same spot, most probably the famous G-spot, for her, and she would eventually have her orgasm, but I never tasted a drop of pee, or female ejaculate, etc. She never sprayed my face with pee or other juices, to my mild disappointment, so it is possible that the fluid didn't come out, at all, or went back in her bladder, as suggested by some of the medical literature which I have read, since that time. This happened fairly frequently, for a while, so I came up with a different response which was the basis for the short fictional story, which I posted on 8/30/17, in the Fictional Stories section of Pee Fans. An excerpt is paraphrased here:

"She began moving in response to my tongue, and squeezing my face with her thighs, until she finally stopped me, saying, "I feel like I have to go again, and I'm afraid I might do it all over you, if you keep licking me in that spot."

"Promises, promises!" I replied, with a wicked grin, this time, and we both laughed for a long time, before I licked her to her usual orgasm, with no squirting or ejaculation. So the title of my short story became, "Promises, Promises," (She did squirt in my mouth, in the fictional story, but never, in reality.)

So for my part of this discussion, this phenomenon is apparently real, and does happen, for some women. Since I am into pee, including watching, licking, drinking, and being peed on, it's not a problem, for me, as long as we make preparations, to avoid sleeping in a wet bed. I totally understand the anxiety and reluctance of a woman to "go with the flow," and enjoy a simultaneous orgasm and pee with me, if she doesn't know about and accept my kink, in advance. This situation could present real problems for couples wherein one or both of them is not into pee. As an example, I recently posted the story of "Lisa," another g.f., who accidentally peed on the hand of a previous b.f., during her orgasm, when he was getting her off, manually. His response was to wash his hand, take a shower, and never call her again. This experience caused so much emotional trauma in her, that it took me almost a year before she would allow me to just watch her pee. So the taboos of conventional, "normal" society can lead to serious problems in otherwise satisfactory relationships.

I have licked a lot of dribbles from g.f.'s vulvas and thighs, loving every drop, but one of my favorite experiences was with "Lisa," when we had been drinking quite a bit, early one evening, in one of our favorite local bars. On leaving the bar, we went to the Cadillac she was driving at the time, supposedly to kiss and hug a little, and say goodnight, since we both had commitments in different places later in the evening. As soon as we got in the car, she told me she had to "go" badly, and wanted to do it in my mouth. I was delighted, hardly believing my good fortune, and immediately lay down on the front seat with my feet under the steering wheel and my head on the passenger's side.

She knelt on the seat, lifting her skirt, making a tent of it, over me, and straddling my face with her thighs, her pussy a few inches above my mouth. Her bladder was very full and she began to pee a sweet warm stream toward my mouth. Due to the fullness of her bladder and the urgency of her need to pee, she had much less control than usual over the direction of her stream. It gushed out, spraying her right thigh (which was squeezed tightly against my face) and ran down her thigh, into my mouth. It smelled and tasted very mild and delicious. (We had both been drinking vodka and tonic.) I loved it, and greedily swallowed whatever I could get in my mouth. When she noticed that she was peeing on her leg, after several seconds, she shifted position slightly (she liked to be very neat) and pissed a flood directly into my mouth, which I swallowed eagerly. She regulated the flow of her pee, by starting and stopping, checking with me to see whether I had swallowed what she gave me, until she was finished peeing.

When she finally finished, my face, hair, and shirt collar were soaked with her delicious perfume. I loved it, and did not wash the shirt for several weeks, when all of the fragrance was gone. Of course, I licked her thighs and pussy pretty thoroughly, and we finished by drying both of us off with Kleenex, before parting for the evening. 

1 hour ago, Alpian said:

Never, ever, wait a year!

@Alpian, I very respectfully disagree, based on personal experiences, with several ladies, some of whom eventually became willing, and even enthusiastic partners, in long term, very satisfying, "wet" relationships. 

"Lisa" and I worked together, and soon became romantically involved. She was very enthusiastic about more or less vanilla sex, in various settings, cars, hotel rooms, etc. I talked around my kink, telling her how much just watching her pee would turn me on, etc., but she would not engage with me on the subject. We even took a two-day trip to a romantic city, and slept together in a hotel room, for two nights, without breaking the bathroom door barrier, after we had been dating for about 7 months. One night, after that, we made love, very enthusiastically, and she said she had to "go" afterward, when we were both nude. I begged her to leave the door open a crack, so I could listen to her peeing, promising that I wouldn't watch her. She agreed, very reluctantly, and hesitantly. I listened to her hiss and tinkle, and when it ended, I asked if I could come in and help her wipe. She said OK, and I entered, with a raging hard-on. When she saw that, her attitude changed, immediately. I helped her wipe, and we went back to bed for more sex. This time, she said she had to "go" again, pulled me into the bathroom, spread her legs wide, and let me watch. I asked her why it had taken her so long to allow this, and she told me she had always been taught that female excretion was a big turn-off to men. Then she told me a short story, which proved what she had been taught, in her mind. Immediately before she met me, she had been dating a guy, who happened to be a cop. One night, he was getting her off by hand, and she peed all over his hand, when she came. He reacted by washing his hands, taking a shower, walking out of the room, and never calling her again. She didn't want that to happen with us, since we had a good thing going on. From that time on, she peed for me in parked cars, outdoors, and other places for about three more years. Her crowning achievement was straddling my face in the back seat of her parked Cadillac, and peeing in my mouth. A more detailed description appears in one of my true stories about her, on Pee Fans.

"Michelle" was another g.f., who was totally into vanilla sex, but not into peeing, at all. We dated and had a full blown, but "dry" sexual relationship, for more than a year, when she decided to move to a location about 80 miles away, for complicated reasons, involving her adult son, who had drug problems. Neither of us wanted to break up, so we got together and talked about how we would manage our long distance relationship. I had hinted at my kink, previously, but now I revealed it, totally. She took it very well, saying that it would take some "getting used to," but it wasn't out of the question. We began our new relationship, and the sex was even better than before, because we had more privacy, but she still closed and locked the bathroom door, and ran tap water to cover her hiss and tinkle. Finally, one night, we were both nude, after sex, when she said she had to "go," and I asked her if I could come with. She said, "I don't know why it's such a big deal, for you. You've seen me naked for more than a year. I just sit down, and you can't see anything. But OK, you can come with me." She sat on the toilet with her thighs pressed tightly together, and began to hiss and tinkle. I knelt in front of her, and tried to get her to open her thighs. She resisted, so I gave up and just buried my face in her thighs. When she was done, she spread her legs and let me wipe her, very willingly. We continued that relationship for about 5 years. Them she broke up with me, and married somebody else. The marriage ended after three years, and we got back together. This time, she was very relaxed about my "bathroom privileges," and she peed with the legs open for me, for several more years. She viewed my kink with amused tolerance, saying, "Well, it doesn't do anything for me, but it sure turns you on!"

So I would have missed out on both of these "wet" relationships, which eventually became satisfying, if I had given up, after one year!

20 hours ago, Takashi96 said:

I agree. And I think those of us who grew up before internet ubiquity are more sensitive to it. My personal theory is that reality TV planted the seed. But it was the intersection of technology (particularly cameras becoming standard in phones) and social media that accelerated the deterioration of the barriers between public and private behavior. People today are noticeably more candid about bodily functions than they ever were in my lifetime. Especially women. 

Thanks for your very astute and penetrating insights. I have noticed the same openness about bodily functions, especially among women. The recent increase in the number and anatomical detail of "bladder leak" underwear adverts aimed at women is one piece of evidence, directly relevant to urination. During the "sexual revolution" of the 60's through 80's, women would discuss various aspects of their sexuality, but would look embarrassed, and change the subject, rather than talk about their peeing. That was always surprising and disappointing to me.  

23 hours ago, Sophie said:

Olivia Colman is a national treasure. She has also told a story of wetting herself on stage!

“My entire bladder emptied and it just went towards the audience in the front row. It made it worse.”

Olivia added that the audience were aware of what happened and were “moving away from little bits of wee”.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/olivia-colman-wets-herself-on-stage-story_uk_60827499e4b05c42907479ea

Thanks for the very interesting link, and your quotes, from her.

17 hours ago, gldenwetgoose said:

I tend to think there are two factors here - both of which play beautifully into our game.  Whether or not these ladies care.

Firstly is the actor's desire to be relevant, to self-market themselves as a name in your mind that stays with you - subconsciously reminding you to watch her movie, make it a smash, get her nominated for whatever award and get cast in bigger and better.   So going on TV and talking about hours in makeup and costume, or about the food in the film set trailers, or how good the co-stars were...  Would anyone remember her name for those things?

Secondly and most wonderfully - pee is steadily becoming more of a thing.   Not only in fetish circles, but just in everyday life - and that's wonderful.   People just accepting that pee happens, and people making it normal - whether it be more bathroom scenes on TV, young influences filming themselves peeing behind dumpsters for ticktok or actresses talking about wetting themselves.  The more open it is, the more conversations and anecdotes we get to hear about, the more colleagues will discuss their desperation or even fetish traits in front of us and the more sights we stand a chance of seeing.

That's my logic anyway...

Both very good points. Thanks for expressing them so clearly. I like your logic! I fervently hope that your second point proves correct. I see increasing indicators that it is. Regarding your first point, I detect a real desire on the part of the actresses to tell their their risque little stories, without being asked or encouraged. That seems to be a departure from past attitudes, where the actress or news anchor would show reluctance and embarrassment, either feigned or real. Present attitudes make the interviews much more memorable, as you point out. Attitudes toward peeing certainly have changed. Hoda's little story was very similar to Olivia's, and Allison Janney's, involving peeing malfunctions, while wearing Spanx. But Hoda had to be urged, almost coerced, to tell hers, with significant embarrassment, real or feigned. Tamron Hall showed a much bolder attitude, a couple of years later, on the same show, when she was asked if she peed in the shower. She answered, (paraphrasing) "Yes, it's such a pleasant release!"

James Corden had Olivia Colman on his TV show, last Thursday night, advertising her latest movie. Without prompting or questioning from Corden, she volunteered this story:

She said that the costume dress required her to wear what was essentially a full body Spanx underneath it. She said the Spanx made having a wee difficult, in that she had to remove most of it, to go. She complained to the wardrobe lady, who told her, "Oh no, there's a vent in the Spanx for that," and she showed Olivia where it was. So Olivia tried to use the vent, the next time she needed a wee. She said that her wee sounded and felt different than usual, but she went ahead with it. When she finished, she said she discovered that her wee had run down her legs and got her costume dress wet in two places, so she had to appeal to the wardrobe lady for a quick remedy for her predicament.

It is interesting to me that an actress of her stature would voluntarily reveal such a story, on National TV. Do these ladies understand that their stories can be very erotic, for a significant fraction of the (male) population, but may be a turn-off for other males, and some females. Do they use these stories intentionally to enhance their erotic appeal? The talk show hosts don't seem to demand these stories, but they don't discourage them, either. Corden seemed to take this one in stride, as did Kimmel, with Allison Janney, in September, after some initial embarrassment. I am personally very pleased with these incidents, and I hope they become a trend, portraying the naturally erotic nature of female peeing. I had heard similar stories previously from news anchors Hoda Kotb, and Tamron Hall, which I posted on Pee Fans forums.

7 hours ago, Havelock said:

The only culture I have heard that embraced peeing standing was 18th-19th century Europe where ladies would wear long puffy dresses and pee standing under them. I think this was driven by the complexity of the dresses. Unfortunately I think these customs are not very well documented and I have no idea how this intersected with Urethra angle. If anyone has better literature, please share or perhaps even start a new thread. 

I believe that culture was described in some detail, at least in England, by Pepys, an author of that era, who spent considerable time among prostitutes and other women, in London. I read one or more of his books, many years ago, so I may not have his name spelled right, and I don't remember the titles of his books. Many of his descriptions were very vivid. There is one scene in which some young girls and a middle aged woman pee outdoors, as a group. The young girls all squat, low to the ground, while the older woman lifts her skirts and pees forward, in a "half squatting, half standing" posture. All then "mop their cunts" with their under clothing.

I remember reading about another culture where standing to pee was supposedly the norm, among women: Indian women, wearing traditional saris, who would commonly stand and pee down their legs, in public, without disrobing, at all. This was described by a visitor to India, in the mid 20th century, I believe.

20 hours ago, Takashi96 said:

I know an American woman who spent a semester going to school in Beijing. She said she loved living there, but she hated having to use the open squat toilets! "I suppose it can be difficult when you're used to western toilets?" I asked, feeling a little guilty about my anatomical privilege. 

"Oh, it's not that?" She replied. "Believe me, I have no problem squatting to pee. The problem was, EVERY TIME I peed in public, these Chinese ladies would stare at me the entire time. I don't know how they thought black women peed? But they always seemed shocked that I did it the same way they did. Sometimes they didn't even pee, they just followed me in and watched!"

My wife has explained to me that Chinese people are very curious about Westerners, of any race, and they are amazed at the differences that Westerners perceive among ethnicities, since they think of all of them as Americans. So they were probably just curious about your black woman friend, wondering if she peed any differently than white or Asian women. In photos and videos of black women peeing, on the 'net, I have noticed a significant number of them pee forward, like Asians, and they tend to spread their legs wide open.  

2 hours ago, kitty and mimi said:

the ability of squatting low and peeing forward is correlate to physical attractiveness which is a sign of fitness. there is less obesity among East Asian women than Western women. western women are more likely have thicker thighs which make their stream downward. East Asian women tend to have slim bodies, which make their stream forward. women with those trait more likely to attract men to have sex with them. they will more likely to have babies, and their genes will survive and pass to next generation.men find those traits attractive but they can't tell why they are attracted to such traits. Their subconscious tell them that those traits are signs of fitness for survival. women who have those traits are more likely to attract men, more likely men will have sex with,therefore they are more likely to give birth to babies, and their genes will pass to next generation rather than die out.

While your evolutionary theories are interesting, my attraction to women who pee forward is based entirely on esthetics of women sitting on, or squatting over western style toilets, when viewed from the front and above. Watching a forward-directed pee tends to be much sexier, because more detail is visible, showing the direction and character of the stream or spray, and details of where and how it comes out of the vulva, as compared to simply being aware that it is going straight down into the toilet, or onto the ground. (I hasten to add that our Puddyls is a delightful exception to this opinion, with her extremely erotic downward-directed streams, as viewed from imaginative angles and directions, between her very lovely thighs, which are of optimum thickness, in my opinion.)

2 hours ago, kitty and mimi said:

slim legs may be more attractive to men, and more likely to make other women feel jealous while squat to pee with half naked inside the open bathroom. slim legs are common among East Asian women while thick legs are common among western women. this may suggest that the natural selection favor East Asian women over western women when it come to sex and reproduction.

Thickness or separation of legs doesn't matter much to me as a viewer. If her thighs are slender, or she has a pronounced thigh gap, it is exciting to watch her stream wander in that space. If her thighs are thick, they may be more likely to get wet, which is extremely sexy to see, in my view. This is far more probable, if her stream is directed forward, unless she is as imaginative as Puddyls, again. Your theories of women competing in strength and distance of their pee streams in open Chinese bathrooms is interesting, to say the least. I was not aware of those possibilities.

7 hours ago, AbbyPeePrincess said:

This is why parents should teach girls to pee standing it should be the social norm.

I wonder if there are any cultures where standing is the social norm, for women? If such cultures do exist, it would be interesting to know if the social norm arose in response to anatomical features common to certain groups, or to cultural, social, or even religious factors. Nature or nurture?

2 minutes ago, kitty and mimi said:

would she read the chapter of that novel? did you ask her about that idiom?

Sorry, but I don't share posts from this site with her. My interests are very different from hers.

On 11/29/2022 at 6:19 PM, kitty and mimi said:

can she still read Chinese?

Yes. Definitely. She spends hours reading Chinese, every day, but her choice of subject matter is very different from yours and mine.

At present, with my wife, son, and I sharing 3 bathrooms, the doors are usually open, while peeing, although my wife will often close the door, if my son is home. He and I do not bother closing the door, for either one, unless guests are present.

In my childhood home, with a mother, father, and 3 sisters, my mother left the door open, virtually always, while peeing, and closed it for #2. My father and I closed the door for peeing and #2, and my 3 sisters commonly left the door open for peeing, and closed it for #2, like my mother.

4 hours ago, kitty and mimi said:

those two book were written by two different authors. both are female. this suggest that this idea might be commonly known among Chinese women in older generation, whether they truly believe it is another matter.

My wife and I are definitely among the older generation, but I have never heard her talk about these ideas. But I am the one who is interested in women's peeing styles, and have been delighted to observe that forward-directed streams seem to be more common among Asians, than among other ethnicities.

18 hours ago, Carb0nBased said:

I didn't know there were cultures in which there were values associated with the angle of women's pee streams! In fact, that aside from some of us pee fans, who are very attuned to such things, I didn't think most people even paid enough attention to the angle of urine streams for the idea that they could be found attractive (or not) to cross their minds. 

I didn't know that, either, even though I have been involved in the Asian culture, through my wife and many Asian friends, for many years. I thought I was one of a small number of people who had an intense interest in the details of women's peeing styles. Forward-directed streams have always been my favorites, because they tend to be more difficult to control, and more messy.

1 hour ago, kitty and mimi said:

one version of this idiom is appear in a Chinese novel,"Under the Hawthorn Tree". It was said by a crazy old female character in the book. this idiom become more and more popular among Chinese speaking internet users recently. it said "大姑娘尿尿一条线 小媳妇尿尿湿一片". the word "大姑娘" means mature woman,probably above 30 years old,still unmarried, still virgin. the word "小媳妇" mean young wife,probably married around 18-20 years old. the rough meaning of this idiom is that even when the woman get older(like 25-35), she would still have forward stream as long as she stay unmarried, virgin; if a woman get married,she no longer have forward stream even if she is still young. I am not sure if this is real or just a Chinese superstition. This may be a Chinese superstition because traditional Chinese culture is very patriarchal, and value virginity, look down on the women who are non virgin before marriage. Since both forward stream and virginity are consider to be good for women in Chinese cultures, people associate forward stream with virginity.

there are people in Chinese speaking circle discuss if this is true or not and how this can be true. some people say that this is biological other people say that this is cultural.

I believe that a lot of this is cultural, and the product of folklore and superstition. Biology is very important. Age and sexual behavior are not the only influences on stream direction and force. Childbirth can have major effects, causing downward or forward stream directions. There is a condition called "dropped bladder" in middle aged women, often associated with childbirth, which can actually cause the stream to go forward, rather than downward. Middle aged Western women, using Western toilets, sometimes are surprised by this, when their streams suddenly go high and forward enough to splatter the fronts of Western toilet seats, when they are sitting on them. Your discussion of the complex social relationships of Chinese women, and their interactions in bathrooms, are very interesting. I have not heard about them before, from my wife, or other sources. Thanks for posting.