The producers corner

[shivaz 242]

I start this thread to share some thoughts about producing and selling pee videos and exchange with other producers, customers and even leechers ;).

First of all I would like to thanks Sinna for her wonderful guide for clips4sale beginners :

http://adult-income.com/promotion-and-updating-clipstore-guide-for-beginners/

There is a lot of useful informations and advices.

I've launch my own store on the end of September 2015.

In the first few days I was very happy with the sales of my hotel carpet peeing series! And one week later everything stopped... My clips where everywhere on the net!

Following Steve25805 advice, I'm now checking free hosting sites every day, that's an awful job!

WantonLee suggested a kind of kick-starter campaign. I was also thinking to start a campaign but more to buy a good 4k cam to be ready for future :)

I would really love to know the point of view of other producers on piracy! Perhaps someone has even stopped this activity because of that? Or hesitate to launch his site? Or find an alternative way to distribute their content?

[Paulypeeps 5,287]

I suspect that in the end you will need to go to a subscription model like the music industry. It will work if you are producing a lot of content because people will find it easier to be notified of new material, and if the cost is low enough it will not be worth their while looking elsewhere.

Book publishing is similar to videos in that books that are freely available online still sell as e-books because people like the convenience of having the simplicity to find them and read them in the official way for a small price - I doubt they would pay the full hardback or even paperback price for an e-book.

Emphasise the quality of what you are offering as making it worthwhile, and perhaps charging a dollar for the video rather than seven dollars a minute might increase sales a bit! It is not like you are selling anything at the higher price, just encouraging people to look for the pirated copies. I don't think anyone would buy a Blu-Ray or DVD if it was priced at seven dollars a minute ($600 for a DVD?) unless it was very niche indeed.

[shivaz 242]

Thank you for feedback Kevin and Paulypeeps

For the price per minute, I don't think it's a pertinent indicator in our niche. I can make a 1h desperation clip, I will sell it the same price as a 1 minute pee clip. What is important is the pee scene. It takes hours to wait for the girl to be desperate and everything is done in less than a minute.

Hotel pee clips are expensive and risky to make, specially on carpeted floor. I will never been able to update my clip store as often as Sinna ;)

For your $600 blu-ray, it's not so expensive if it contains 90 naughty hotel pee scenes of 1 minute :)

If it contains 2 anonymous pee scenes with blabla/desp.... no-one will by it :D

[steve25805 126,023]

Shivaz, pirate copies are a pain, I know.

Just recently - yesterday in fact - I bought four of your clips and they are very good for anyone who loves girls pissing in naughty places. But a few of them are a bit high cost which would put off all but the truest enthusiasts of the genre - like me :) - from buying them.

What to do about pirating, though, is a difficult one to answer. There are no easy solutions. Opting for a subscription model which streams videos only rather than offering them for download, but with subscriptions necessary for access, plus possibly allowing people to buy access to individual videos if they don't want to subscribe, is one option. In return for payment of a fee, people could buy the permanent right to access any particular vid via streaming. If people cannot download them, they are much less likely to be able to upload them onto free sites.

Problem is, many people do like to download such stuff directly into their own stash, and might be less likely to buy if they cannot. But as soon as people start downloading what they have bought, it only takes one or two of these people to upload them onto free sites and suddenly no one else will buy them anymore. I do know that sites like Eroprofile will come to agreements with suppliers to remove their material from their sites as soon as they notice it posted there. Have you asked Eroprofile and others to agree to this?

I am not techno savvy at all, but is it possible to encrypt videos in such a way that only the person downloading them can access them, with any attempt to upload them elsewhere re-establishing the encryption? Then, only the person who paid for it could see it. Probably not possible, but it would be great if someone could invent something like that.

Other than that, I can only suggest continual vigilance in regards to free hosting sites.

[shivaz 242]

Many thanks for your support Steve! And we need support! You not only buy a clip, you're also giving us hope and help to fight against discouragment!

To my mind, streaming sites are not a solution against piracy. It's easy to download the stream, there is plenty of tools to do it. And that's the first thing I do when I buy a clip from streaming site! I don't want to loose what I've ordered if the site close. I want to be able to play my clips even if my internet connection is down.

I don't like DRM solutions. It's too restrictive and annoying for honest customers and don't prevent someone with bad intentions to pirat it, even if it's at the cost of a downgraded quality. See security cams encrypted recordings, ultimate easy and dirty solution is to take your smartphone to film the monitor!

My problem with piracy is not only the loss of incomes, and the anihilited return on invest, it's also the respect of the private life of my models. Being viewed by fifty persons around the world is not the same as being viewed by hundred of thousands. They are taking risks, they don't need to be overexposed.

I'm working on a private site, for selected and trusted customers only. A place where I could put a lot more clips, without the fear of being pirated!

[MissPiss 1,027]

I have been running on-line sites for almost 15 years. . . . Welcome to my world!!!!

Piracy has literally killed my business and forced me to get a full time job. No matter what you charge they are gonna buy and share. And don't think for one minute that starting a membership site is the solution. I had people join my fart site, download EVERYTHING and then upload every single one of my videos for hundreds to enjoy for free. My memberships sites were ripped and exposed!!! Monitoring your content on free file sharing sites is a full time job in itself. It's disheartening and discouraging for sure. Also. . . offering "steaming" videos on a site can't stop them from downloading.

What pisses me off and kills me most . . . forums will charge membership fees to watch videos they didn't even produce. So instead of just giving these videos away for free on the tube sites they are getting greedy and building VIP access areas. Then they ask for "donations" to see all this pirated content.

Sorry I don't have a better answer or solution to share. . . it's a sad reality. Now you know why so many sites are failing and have closed.

[shivaz 242]

Thank you very much for your feedback MissPiss. I totally agree with you. I knew that piracy would be a problem, but I've been surprised by how fast it has happened (less than one week and less than 10 sales) .

Monitoring your content on free file sharing sites is a full time job in itself.

Yes, that's true. Perhaps we could do something like a network of guardians? If I see your clips on a free site I will report them. If anyone who understand the negative effects of piracy on their fantasies reports stolen clips, that would be nice, and we could produce more clips instead of looking for pirated ones!

I propose "The Guardians Of Pee"! Who wants to help us to fight against the evil piracy and protect your pee producers?!

[steve25805 126,023]

I have been running on-line sites for almost 15 years. . . . Welcome to my world!!!!

Piracy has literally killed my business and forced me to get a full time job. No matter what you charge they are gonna buy and share. And don't think for one minute that starting a membership site is the solution. I had people join my fart site, download EVERYTHING and then upload every single one of my videos for hundreds to enjoy for free. My memberships sites were ripped and exposed!!! Monitoring your content on free file sharing sites is a full time job in itself. It's disheartening and discouraging for sure. Also. . . offering "steaming" videos on a site can't stop them from downloading.

What pisses me off and kills me most . . . forums will charge membership fees to watch videos they didn't even produce. So instead of just giving these videos away for free on the tube sites they are getting greedy and building VIP access areas. Then they ask for "donations" to see all this pirated content.

Sorry I don't have a better answer or solution to share. . . it's a sad reality. Now you know why so many sites are failing and have closed.

Mea Culpa.

I have been guilty of uploading vids I have paid for on clips4sale sites, convincing myself that because our gallery is not free and because I am dedicated to maximising the potential of this forum then perhaps it is ok. But I am kidding myself, because it clearly isn't.

Supporting performers such as yourself matters. So I have decided to go through all my videos in the gallery, and delete any bought from clips4sale lone operators.

Apologies to those members who will no longer be able to access them, but they can be bought from the performers so that you possess your own copies.

Time for me to stop compromising with what's right and wrong on this issue, methinks.

[steve25805 126,023]

Have deleted the most recent ones. Must go to shops now before they close in less than 20 mins. Will delete any others tomorrow when I have more time to plough through all my uploads.

[steve25805 126,023]

Deleting vids from the galleries is much harder work than I imagined. You need to access your own account and access your own videos via that account to get to a delete option. Now I have 65 or so pages of vids, but only the first nine or so of these are accessible by a single click. The further in you get, the more times you have to click "next" to get to the page you want. Then once you have deleted a vid you go right back to the start instead of to the last page you were on so you have to then go through the process again. It is possible to start with page 65 and work back, but whichever end you start at, the ones in the middle are a real pain to reach.

I am pushed for time today, so still have some vids I ought to delete, Maybe I will delete a few each day until I have gone through all the pages, rather than setting myself a prolonged dull task all in one go.

[steve25805 126,023]

Thank you very much for your feedback MissPiss. I totally agree with you. I knew that piracy would be a problem, but I've been surprised by how fast it has happened (less than one week and less than 10 sales) .

Yes, that's true. Perhaps we could do something like a network of guardians? If I see your clips on a free site I will report them. If anyone who understand the negative effects of piracy on their fantasies reports stolen clips, that would be nice, and we could produce more clips instead of looking for pirated ones!

I propose "The Guardians Of Pee"! Who wants to help us to fight against the evil piracy and protect your pee producers?!

[ATTACH=full]61494[/ATTACH]

I am only one person, but I do browse looking for pee porn quite often. If any pee performer selling clips would be willing to supply me with contact details, by PMing me an email address I can contact them on, I will be willing to agree to alert them to the presence of any of their vids on freesites that I come across. Perhaps other members here might consider making the same offer?

[MissPiss 1,027]

Thank you very much for your feedback MissPiss. I totally agree with you. I knew that piracy would be a problem, but I've been surprised by how fast it has happened (less than one week and less than 10 sales) .

Yes, that's true. Perhaps we could do something like a network of guardians? If I see your clips on a free site I will report them. If anyone who understand the negative effects of piracy on their fantasies reports stolen clips, that would be nice, and we could produce more clips instead of looking for pirated ones!

I propose "The Guardians Of Pee"! Who wants to help us to fight against the evil piracy and protect your pee producers?!

[ATTACH=full]61494[/ATTACH]

That would be very nice and it's a win win deal for us both. You would get to enjoy the video that you found for free and you would be helping me to control the piracy as well. As long as us little time producers can make a few bucks doing what we love to do then we are encouraged to keep going.

[MissPiss 1,027]

Mea Culpa.

I have been guilty of uploading vids I have paid for on clips4sale sites, convincing myself that because our gallery is not free and because I am dedicated to maximising the potential of this forum then perhaps it is ok. But I am kidding myself, because it clearly isn't.

On behalf of all us girls who love to make pee videos I say thank you kindly for your understanding. Doesn't it make more sense that us girls should get paid for our efforts instead of these tube sites and forums??? These guys are charging you memberships fees to profit off videos they didn't even make. It's like taking advantage of labor workers and women. hahaha Well I am not trying to spoil anyone's fun. . . just trying to make people see how unfair and damaging this can be to us girls and YOU because YOU are the one who originally paid for the video with YOUR own hard earned money! Let the forum owners buy their own content instead of using the members to stock their archives for them. LMAO

[MissPiss 1,027]

Just so you guys know. . . l I have asked the forum admin to grant me access to the video area so I couldn't quietly monitor my own content and politely remove it if I feel necessary. Unfortunately my request for access has never been granted even though I have contributed a promotional video to help get that area started. I will still continue to support this forum with my free pictures and posts, but at the same time I feel the producers who care about their content should be given a fair chance to protect their property if desired.

[steve25805 126,023]

On behalf of all us girls who love to make pee videos I say thank you kindly for your understanding. Doesn't it make more sense that us girls should get paid for our efforts instead of these tube sites and forums??? These guys are charging you memberships fees to profit off videos they didn't even make. It's like taking advantage of labor workers and women. hahaha Well I am not trying to spoil anyone's fun. . . just trying to make people see how unfair and damaging this can be to us girls and YOU because YOU are the one who originally paid for the video with YOUR own hard earned money! Let the forum owners buy their own content instead of using the members to stock their archives for them. LMAO

Well, certainly I want pee clips produced by the ladies to be as attractive an option as possible, to encourage ever more ladies to do it. Because let's face it, if you ladies are into this sort of thing you can do it privately without a camera. The attraction of filming it is to make money. If it all starts getting spread around for free, most of you would no longer see the point in bothering. And we'd all lose out cos it wouldn't be being made anymore.

One of my favourite naughty peeing providers of late was Leah on her clips4sale site. Sadly, she appears to have stopped producing this stuff and now caters for other fetishes instead I believe. And it is probably all because her vids kept cropping up on free sites, destroying her income from them. I myself probably didn't help because I posted several on this forum's paysite gallery. I have subsequently noticed one or two of them being lifted directly from this gallery by others and posted directly onto free sites.

And the result appears to be that Leah has stopped making this stuff, which is a sad loss indeed.

From this point on, I will not be posting any new vids from paysites into our gallery, unless the vids are from major operators and not lone amateurs, and have been around for a while and already exist on free sites. This applies to some of the older glimpse.it vids and public pissing ones.

Bottom line, the continued production of good naughty pissing vids is more important to us than a good gallery. If anyone wants a particular clip, they can buy it themselves. Most are not very expensive at all.

[steve25805 126,023]

Just so you guys know. . . l I have asked the forum admin to grant me access to the video area so I couldn't quietly monitor my own content and politely remove it if I feel necessary. Unfortunately my request for access has never been granted even though I have contributed a promotional video to help get that area started. I will still continue to support this forum with my free pictures and posts, but at the same time I feel the producers who care about their content should be given a fair chance to protect their property if desired.

That sounds reasonable enough to me.

But I will say that access to the gallery normally costs a one off fee which then gives you access for life. If everyone could gain access merely by contributing a vid - promotional or otherwise - then no one would pay anymore. I guess Admin feels he cannot make exceptions and must apply the same rules to everybody, ie access via payment of a once only fee.

But insofar as my own content is concerned, the only video of yours which I have posted there is the custom vid you and Ashley made for me, which you said was my property and I could post it wherever, or share it with whomever, I like. With that one exception, I have posted none of your videos in the gallery. So hopefully I can at least reassure you on that point.

[MissPiss 1,027]

You have always been great Steve. And I appreciate you for asking first about that video. You have good balance and respect : )

[Paulypeeps 5,287]

...I guess Admin feels he cannot make exceptions and must apply the same rules to everybody, ie access via payment of a once only fee...

There is quite a difference between uploading a clip you have found, and contributing a video you have made. There are not many producers, and I doubt any are paying anything.

[shivaz 242]

To me sharing a picture or video privately is the same as one person purchasing a book, and then allowing others to read it. Once they have paid for it, in my opinion they own it and have the right to share it with others.

Do you share peeing videos with members of your familly? colleagues at work? :woot: Or "friends" who likes pee clips too, from all other the world? The problem with our market is that it's a niche market. We are not producing the last James Bond, or signing books J.K. Rowling. There is only a very few poeple all other the world, interested by the same kind of things. When you share a clip with a private community, pee friends from internet you can easily touch 80% of the potential customers. The negative effects are immediate for the producer.

[shivaz 242]

This is a small group of people who have proven over the years to be trustworthy and honest.

I don't know your group, how many members inside, or what they do with videos. I just wanted to say that impact of sharing a clip on a small ultra-specialized community can be devasting. You can't simply compare it with sharing films or books with your circle of friends.

I am too cheap

I hope that this will change and that you will support the productions you enjoy today! ...if they are still there :unsure:

People will buy music, and copy songs so that they can play them in different locations (work, car, home, on a mp3 player while working out) even though the producer claims that they should buy each copy rather than just buying one and duplicating it.

If you buy one of my clip, you can use it wherever you want, your UHD TV, your car DVD player, your computer at work, your iPad... You can even watch it with your girlfriend/wife!

[Scot_Lover 1,877]

So what happens if we inadvertently post something you recognise ? I found a couple today on Thisvid.com and posted them to the gallery. Do we get in the shit over it or do you send a message telling us not to do it again?

In the past, I have found members video's being shared, and where I could, I advised that member.

[shivaz 242]

The clips we share are not ones made by a individual pee model. We are more into the voyeuristic watching of women peeing in public places.

Ok, I understand your point of view now. A circle of trusted friend is a good mean to share the result of your hunts! Sharing this kind of files is not the same as sharing clips made by individual model.

[shivaz 242]

In the past, I have found members video's being shared, and where I could, I advised that member.

That's a nice reaction. I would appreciate it (as well as other individual models here I'm sure!)

[shivaz 242]

I've launch my clip4sale store 3 months ago. What I can say so far :

• I've earned a total of $874 for that 3 months.
  
• My best seller is Cindy hotel carpet clip and has been sold 17 times in the first week, 0 after being pirated.
  
• Price doesn't have a noticeable influence on sales.
  
• 7 of my clips have made 0 sale (Outdoor, balcony and bathroom one). Not a surprise because the free offer in those categories is consequent.
  
• I've spent a lot of time on boring tasks (like editing, converting, checking free sites for pirated contents, I've paid girls, hotels, cameras, I've been taking risks, all of that for $874...on which I still have to pay taxes...:depressed: I'm pretty sure that if I had beg for money in the streets for 3 months, I'll have earned more :cry:
  
• I will still make videos because I love that and I will probably "share" some of them and try different things to see if it sells better.
  

[shivaz 242]

I've invested more than every earned penny in a new 4k cam, a Sony FDR-AX33 that will replace my old Canon HDV cam.

I wanted a Sony Alpha A7 S2 with a good lens because of it's low light sensitivity, but it's too expensive for us:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1186034-REG/sony_ilce7sm2_b_alpha_a7sii_mirrorless_digital.html

If someone is rich enough to buy it for us :

1. You'll get a life time access to all our clips present and future
   
2. I come to pick-it up with Naomi, for a weekend, wherever you're, and she'll pee wherever you want :wink: You're living room carpets, your car, your bed, ....