kitty and mimi

On 8/20/2023 at 10:07 PM, Havelock said:

It’s very typical in analyzing fiction to try to understand the cultural context. From high school through post graduate education it would not be unusual to have a dialogue around such topics. I have always considered Peefans more thoughtful and intellectual than other fetish sites. I really appreciate the thought and depth of topics on the site. I don’t understand the harm and I am genuinely curious if anyone with more expertise knows and could put context as to whether the competition described in the fiction is common or more fanciful and imaginative. 

yes, it is true that it is very interesting to analyze fiction, and it is no harm to discuss the cultural perspective of urination rather than just fetish by itself, although I don't think the story in the novel reflect any Chinese cultural value, since the story involve peeing contest between people of opposite sex, which I had never seen before. I was highly uncommon for one boy and one girl peeing side by side outdoor in china, not to mention peeing contest. I only seen this twice before I came to united states. once was in China. another time was in Hong Kong. none of theme had peeing contest at all. I read a urban legend in yahoo China (i think the website no longer exist), that once there was a large mixed gender peeing competition took place outside of China. at the end, all the winners were women.

as for peeing competition by itself, or the admiration for forward streams, I don't think any of these were unique to Chinese culture either. I think from  sociobiological approach, peeing contest might be actually a mating strategy that evolved for animals to compete with the same sex and attract the opposite sex.

in classic literatures around the world, it is not uncommon for people to consider forward stream to be a sign of fertility, sexual potency and attractiveness. In less developed places without proper bathroom facility, people of same sex may pee side by side, outdoor while exposed to other people of opposite sex. they compete against each other to see who pee the furthest, to attract people of opposite sex, to maximize their chance of reproduction.

There is one ancient Irish myth about female peeing contest. according to the myth, one day during a cold winter, the men used snow to create a phallic pillar. several women had a competition to pee into the snow pillar, to see who can shoot urine  deepest into the snow pillar to prove that she was most attractive to men. Derbforgaill, wife of Lugaid Riab nDerg won the competition, but other women fatally attacked her out of jealous. at the end, she was eventually killed by those envy women.

this story suggest that female peeing contest and the admiration of forward stream had exist in ancient time in Ireland. this story also reflect the reality of  natural selection which human or non human animals of same sex fight each other to death, to attract the opposite sex,to win the chance of mating to maximize their chance of reproduction.

When I was in Hong Kong, I saw a game show, which a group of male stars were asked to make a most masculine posture to compete to see who was most attractive to women. One male star, his name is Steven Ma, he made a male peeing posture, and he said men's peeing posture is most attractive to women. He stood face to the wall, two hand was in front, as it he was holding his penis and peeing.

I think peeing contest is mainly between people of same sex, to compete against each other to attract people of opposite sex, which evolve from ancient time or in less developed places, when bathroom facility were less developed. but in modern time, in more developed places, in gender segregation bathroom environment which men and women cannot see each other peeing, many people still re-enact that kind of ancient instinct, and bring that kind of mating strategy into a gender segregation bathroom with open urinals or open squat toilets while exposed to the people of same sex, to compete to see who pee furthest, although there is no people of opposite sex was present to see. just like the ancient Irish story, in modern China, where some lady's room with open squat toilet with no door, some women compete to see who pee the furthest, but what different from the ancient story is that it is just competition between people same sex, but not about attracting the people of opposite sex, because there was no male audience present to watch. the men on urinals on the other side of the bathroom might have their own peeing competition at the same time,but there is no female audience present to watch either. in a modern bathroom with open urinals or open squat toilets in gender segregation environment,each gender group could have their own peeing competition, but people on the each side of the bathroom cannot see each other doing the competition. therefor, in modern public bathroom environment,peeing competition is no longer about attracting people of opposite sex, or maximize one's chance of reproduction. people just re-enact an ancient mating strategy which is hardly even work today.

On 8/16/2023 at 11:33 PM, Havelock said:

It says they went behind the stone chair. Do you know what that means? Is that outside or were they peeing behind a stone Shari inside?

The novel did not explain what stone chair mean, but I think it was most likely in outdoor environment. chairs that made of stone are commonly used in park or garden in outdoor environment in China.

This story came from a Chinese love/ romance novel called "I have been to your world". the author's name is Xue ying shuang hun . the story mention the Chinese couple remembered their past experience of peeing contest when they met each other for the first time as children. the main female character's name is Bohe, while the main male character's name is Xi Ruinan. They met each other for the first time when they were six years old. They dated each other at fifteen years old, but their relationship did not keep very long. after they broke up, they had not see each other again for nine years. when they met each other again for the first time as adults when they were twenty four years old, they recalled that when they met each other for the first time as children, they had a peeing contest to compete against each other to see who pee the furthest.

Bohe had been very boyish since she was a little girl. She often cut her hair to make her hair short. she did not like wearing skirt. she like wearing t-shirt and jeans. some of her t-shirts had image of skeleton in the front, and her jeans were full of holes, which make her look un-girly. When she was in elementary school, she played with boys rather than girls most of times. she had very forward peeing dream. when she peed, she could pee very far, and she sometime could pee a little further than boys even when she was squat.

when Bohe was six years old, her father,Bo Jiaqing was invite to his boss, Xi Wenqian's party. Bo Jiaqing was a driver of Xi Wenqian. Bo Jiaqing brought his daughter, Bohe to the party. That was the first time Bohe met Xi Ruinan,the son of Xi Wenqian. Just like other boys at that age, Xi Ruinan did not like to play with girls, but he like to play with Bohe, because Bohe had short hair, and she never wear skirt, and she look like a boy. Xi Ruinan mistook Bohe as a boy. during the afternoon after lunch, Xi Ruinan had a full bladder, and he really wanted to pee. when he unbutton his pants and about to stand to pee, it remind him about Bohe, so he turn his head and look at Bohe ,smile and ask:"do you want to pee? if so, how about a pee contest to see who pee furthest?"

Xi Ruinan did not realize that Bohe was a girl. At that time, Bohe felt urge to pee too, she just agreed to compete with  Xi Ruinan without thinking twice. they went behind the stone chair to do the peeing competition. Xi Ruinan stand while Bohe squat to pee. when Xi Ruinan turned his head and saw Bohe squatted to pee, he felt very surprised   and he asked:"why are you squatting to pee? are you a girl?" this time Bohe suddenly realized why Xi Ruinan didn't play with other girls, but played with her only, because he thought she was also a boy. Xi Ruinan felt even more   surprised  that although Bohe squatted to pee, she peed far away, even a little farther than him. He bent down to look at her suspiciously and ask: "Are you really a girl?how can you pee so far? do you have a penis?What do you use to pee?" when Bohe was still squatting to pee, Xi Ruinan bent even lower as he spoke,  try to see what did she use to pee,but Bohe suddenly finish peeing and pull up her pants very fast as she stand up. Xi Ruinan did not see anything and he felt very disappointed.

Joey Meng, an actress in Hong Kong is one of several persons who I most like. She got second place in Miss Asian beauty pageant in Hong Kong, but what her most famous for is not her face, but her legs. her legs is considered to be the most beautiful legs in Hong Kong. The most successful TV series that she took part in was the "my date with a vampire" TV series. when she act as the main female character, Joey ma(a Chinese female exorcist), she wear short skirt most of time in the TV series. many male stars chased her, and many female stars were jealous of her because of her attractiveness. I remember that at least one female star's boyfriend was "stolen" by her because she was so seductive.

I am not sure if she ever been to mainland China or not. I wonder if she have ever used open squat toilet in Chinese women's room while expose to other people of same sex. I imagine that would make a lot of women inside the women's room feel very jealous of her legs, if she squat to pee while expose her legs on open squat toilet like everyone else in Chinese women's room.

does anyone know how policewomen pee while on duty?I heard that policewomen have more issues than policemen when it came to urination while on duty. some European countries have stand urinals on the street for men who work outdoor, including policemen. all they need to do is unzip their pants to pee while stand up without take off their pants, sitting down and dealing with their gun belt,but police women cannot use them. I saw that in some eastern Asian countries, including japan and Hong Kong, police women wear skirt rather than pants as uniform during summer, and gun are less likely carried by policewomen in Asia , compare to western countries, therefore, gun belt may not be a issue for policewomen in Asia. also, western sitting toilets are more common in west, and it maybe too hard for policewomen to find clean toilet, unlike Asia, that there are more squat toilets.

how do police women find clean toilets to sit down to pee while on duty in western countries?how do they deal with their gun and gun belts?will they drop their gun if they hover to pee? will they accidentally fire their gun while urinating? do they load their guns before go inside the ladies room? if their guns are unloaded, will they get ambush attacked in ladies room? will they just squat to pee outdoor, if they cannot find clean bathroom? will they get ambush attacked if they squat to pee outdoor?

On 11/12/2022 at 6:14 PM, Dr.P said:

I am fairly sure that this fetish is rooted in childhood experiences. It certainly was, for me. But in my case, it started very early, like around 2 1/2 years old, literally at my mother's knee, so I often wonder if genetic predisposition is also a factor. I wouldn't be surprised by that.

it is very common and normal for children from three to six years old to be interested in urination. I think this can be explained  easily and accurately by using Freudian psychology. Urination is actually one of most primitive form of sexual expression in human.I don't consider this to be genetic, because most people at least had this kind of feeling at certain age, at least at unconscious level. this kind of feeling usually began around 3 years old, and it being repressed around six to seven years old,but it remain in a unconscious state. most adults who without urination fetish are actually suppressed this kind of feeling into unconscious state. According to Sigmund Fred, most forms of body relieve can involve some kind of sexual pleasure, including urination,defecation and male ejaculation. it is obvious for adult male that ejaculation will lead to sexual pleasure, but before this even happen for the first time, people experience difference stage of sexual development when they were growing up as adults. different kind of bathroom experience and different pleasure center of bodies part in different stage of sexual development reflect gender identity and relationship. before a baby reach one years old(first stage), his or her pleasure center is around the mouth. the babies suck milk from their mother's breast in order to fell satisfy.

From one to three years old(second stage), when the children began their potty training,the pleasure center of children will change from mouth to anus, in order to be successful in potty training. this is the first time when a human associate toilet with bodily pleasure, at least in a subconscious level.

From three to six years old(third stage), when the children go to kindergarten, they discover a concept of gender identity, when children of different gender play together in a mix gender environment. in Eastern Asian countries, bathroom in kindergarten tend to be mixed gender with open toilets. during urination,boys would stand in one row in front of a open male urinal, while girls will squat or sit in another row.two gender groups can see each other urinating in different posture. Children began to discover that people of their opposite sex pee in different posture. the children at that time still have no concept of sexuality and reproduction, they feel curious about body difference between genders. they want to learn more. at that time, their pleasure center will change from anus to genital. in this stage, urination fetish is most common among children, because they want to explore more about their gender identity.

from seven to twelve years old (the fourth stage), when children go to elementary school, they began to identify their own genders. boys will identify themselves as boys, girls will identify themselves as girls. children will develop their hobby or interest of their own genders group. they mainly play with the members of their own gender group. boys and girls don't usually mix with each other at that stage. they joint their own gender group, in order to develop same interest and imitate each other in a single gender environment. at that stage, all kind of sexual pleasure (including fetish associate with toilet and urination)will be suppressed into unconscious level, or will redirect to same sex friendship. begging at first grade in elementary school,( at least in china and Hong Kong), bathroom will no longer be mix gender. the bathroom in elementary school are gender segregation,while they are open bathroom in mainland china,boys and girls go to separate bathroom. going to bathroom to pee together no longer mean explore one's gender identity,but it re enforce one's gender identity. when going to pee in a open bathroom in gender segregation environment, boys and girls cannot see each other peeing. everyone see each other stand to pee in boy's room, while every one see each other squat to pee in girl's room. in each side of the bathroom,everyone pee in a same position, which re enforce gender identity.

however, not everyone had experienced the fourth stage of sexual development. many people who have urination fetish as adults might have never even experience to fourth stage at all. Some children who are 8 years old or older still explore their gender identity are actually still stay in the third stage. this kind of mental development delay is common among kids with autism/  asperger syndrome. although autism is not really a mental disease(might not even be a real disability, for those who with high function autism, because those people are very intelligent in some areas), it is a syndrome that lead to mental development delay and difficulty to relate to others socially. some people have never even reach the fourth stage even after they became adult. Austic  people who stay in the third stage did not redirect their energy from  curiosity to body of opposite sex to same sex friendship. in most of time,this just lead to urination fetish,but in some more extreme cases, it lead to voyeurism. statistically speaking, those who committed voyeur crime are almost always men(autism is associate with hyper masculinity of the brain. Most children who  diagnosis with autism are boys. very few are girls. ) most men who committed voyeur crimes have difficulty to interact with other people. they are less likely to be interested in marriage or long term relationship. most of them have no same sex friends and had no interest in making same sex friends.

some survey show that people have more autistic traits are correlate to have fetish or voyeuristic behavior, while people with more neurotypical traits are less likely to have fetish or voyeuristic behavior.

some people in this forum said that women are less likely to have pee fetish or less likely express their fetish openly,but I think this is not entirely true. my theory is that people with more characteristic of so call "extreme male brain" will more likely have pee fetish or express their fetish. this does not mean that people with less masculine brain don't have pee fetish, but  people with more neurotypical traits are better at repressed the kind of sexual expression that are consider to be socially unacceptable,or redirect their sexual desire in more acceptable way through friendship or relationship. a extreme masculine brain can be associate with incapability of redirect one's sexual energy from opposite sex attraction to same sex friendship.

the fifth stage is also the final stage of sexual development. this happen puberty, beginning at middle school or high school year, the boys and girls will mixed and play with each other again, but this time, they seek for a more developed form of relationship, unlike those who have developmental delay, still stay in the third stage. in the fifth stage, genital become the pleasure center again, but this time, the main function that genital play in the fifth stage is not about bathroom or urination, if is more about reproduction than urination. people at that stage will find partners in order to prepare for marriage and have  offspring in future, because this is what the society want them to do. people will keep suppressing their interest in urination in a subconscious level, because it is form  of sexual expression that is socially unacceptable, unlike have sex with their partners and have babies, which is more socially acceptable, or even encouraged.

during the middle school or high school years, girls are more likely go to bathroom together while boys go to bathroom alone. this normal even keep into adulthood when women go to bathroom in group, while men go to bathroom alone. it seem that women are better at redirect their primitive sexual desire which is socially less acceptable to a more acceptable way through friendship or relationship. since people still subconsciously being interested in urination of opposite sex, but unlike men who try to satisfy this kind of desire through fetish or voyeurism, women on the other hand, will turned their attention from people of opposite sex to the people of same sex. women go to bathroom with same sex friends is a way to redirect this kind of desire to to the people of the same sex which is more socially acceptable.

if what Sigmund Freud said was true that urination is one of primitive form of sexual expression which people can feel pleasure while relieving, I think it will make more sense that people will subconsciously feel there is need for sexually relieving when their bladder is full. when people peeing together while seeing each other and socialize with each other, there might be imply a kind of sexual relationship in a unconscious level bond them together, no matter they were same sex or opposite sex. when a one is peeing with someone he or she like, one would feel more pleasure to pee just like having sex with another person unconsciously, on the other hand, if one is peeing with a person he or she does not like, one will feel anxiety and disgusting. in modern bathroom situation, when people have full bladder and need to go to public bathroom, many of them unconsciously bring instinct of mating strategy into a gender segregation bathroom, which have no people of opposite sex exist. in such single gender environment, people might feel jealous of each other or compete with each other in a unconscious state.men might unconsciously pee louder to compete with other men to see who pee the loudest. other men might compete to see who have larger penis subconsciously. this mostly happen in men's room. but some time, in Chinese women's room with open squat toilets, women might compete with each other to see who pee furthest while squat to pee on squat toilet. other women might compete to see who have more beautiful leg, or body shape.

through history, people or animals of the same species of same sex compete with each other, in order to attract the opposite sex of the same species for the chance of mating. even today, in a gender segregation bathroom environment, people still bring this kind of mating strategy into a bathroom that no people of opposite sex present.

in such bathroom situation, women are more skillful than men to redirect this kind of sexual energy to a direction of same sex friendship rather than opposite sex relationship, through better emotion and social skill, by going to bathroom with same sex friends, to turn their attention from men to other women,to re enforce their gender identity by using their sexual energy to build their same sex community.

I think people with more neurotypical traits are more likely to go to bathroom together with people of the same sex, and  less likely to have urination fetish, or express their fetish openly, because their emotion or social skill lead their sexual desire to different direction. like other forms of body relieving, urination can lead to sexual pleasure,like a mild form of ejaculation. when some people have full bladder,they may subconsciously find way to release sexual energy.when some people feel less satisfy to release this kind of energy individually, this kind of energy kind use to build relationship when people pee with others who they like and expose their penis or lower body parts to each other which are not normally been seen by other people. in modern public bathroom in a gender segregation environment, it is socially unacceptable for men and women pee together, therefore, some people will turn their attention from people of the opposite sex to the people of same sex, to go to bathroom with same sex friends,and focus on their gender side of the bathroom rather than another side of the bathroom. to redirect their sexual energy from opposite sex relationship to build same sex friendship in a more socially acceptable way. going to bathroom with same sex friends can be can suppressed form of sexual expression associate with urination fetish. people who have more extreme masculine brain, will tend to seek more extreme way to release this kind of sexual energy. the most extreme form of expression of urination fetish is voyeurism. women in general are more likely than men to meet the social expectation when it came to sexual expression. this maybe because of the different between male and female brain. this maybe the reason why women's bathroom became the community center of women. by peeing together, women can redirect their sexual energy to build their friendship. rather than spend such energy on their boyfriend or husband who pee on the other side of the bathroom who they cannot meet at that moment,so their sexual energy will not be wasted. men on the other side of the bathroom, are less capable of redirecting this kind of sexual energy, while releasing such energy in men's room,they may subconsciously think about their wife,or girlfriend, or other women on the other side of the bathroom. it became pee fetish in mild form. in the most extreme form of pee fetish, it became voyeurism. this can also explain why more men express their pee fetish than women, since men don't usually go to bathroom with same sex friends and tend to keep distance from other men while using urinals, and less likely to redirect the sexual energy that associate with urination. men in general will more likely recognize  other men as competitors  rather than friends in bathroom in a unconscious level. just like men in history in ancient time who  fought each other to dead in order to win the women. although there is no women in men's room, and people of opposite sex cannot meet each other in public bathroom, but when people have full bladder,which make them feel sexual energy that they need to release, they will unconsciously re enact such primitive respond and bring such mating strategy into a gender segregation bathroom, especially, when people of the same sex need to expose their body to each other (male urinals in men's room or open squat toilets in Chinese women's room), seeing other people of same sex peeing, and knowing that one's self is exposed too. only those who can redirect such sexual energy from the mentality of competing for mates to same sex friendship will make the experience different. generally, women are more capable of this than men. Neurotypical people are more capable of this than autistic people. therefore, the way women use to redirect this kind of primitive instinct is to having relationship with each other , rather than compete against each other for a mate that not even exist inside women's room.

On 5/6/2023 at 11:21 PM, Carb0nBased said:

It makes sense that teachers don't want their students talking in the bathroom.

I think it maker more sense if the teachers don't want their female students to go to bathroom together, because they don't want their students spend too much time to talk in bathroom, but I don't think the male students will spend as much time to talk in bathroom as female students.

according to some researchers in London in Uk, including Sarah Moore,a professor of criminology at Royal Holloway, University of London,women generally feel more relax,pee slower and spend more time to talk in bathroom when going to bathroom with same sex friends. men, on  the other hand, would feel more anxiety, pee faster on urinal when going to bathroom with other men, especially, when they stand closer to each other.

I am not sure if this apply to middle school students. if this apply, the girls would pee slower and spend more time to talk to each other if they go to bathroom with friends during the class time. they will pee faster when peeing alone, during class time, when there were no other students inside the bathroom. on the other hand, the boys may pee faster and spend less time in bathroom if they go to bathroom together during class. they may pee slower and spend more class time inside the bathroom if peeing alone. if that is true, it will make more sense for the teachers to only allow boys to go to bathroom together.

On 5/6/2023 at 11:21 PM, Carb0nBased said:

I wonder how many of the girls show interest back.

according to my experience of listening to this kind of conversations, most girls who really answer those kind of questions were already have boyfriend. girls who have no boyfriend generally not answer this kind of question. I don't think this kind of conversation lead to any new relationship, but this can be a express of friendship.

when I first came to The United States, I joined a youth club in a Chinese church. At one evening, when we finished dinner, and about to begin a group meeting, I heard a conversion about bathroom between a boy and a girl.

I don't know their Chinese names, because people in that group called each other's English naked name. The boy's name was David, while the girl's name was Destiny. David came from Hong Kong, where the place I came from. Destiny was came from Guangzhou, China which the place I was born.

Destiny was a popular girl in that group, she already had a boyfriend at that time, while I had never heard David had any girlfriend.

At that evening, when everyone finish dinner, many people went to bathroom. at that time, when David seeing Destiny was alone, he feel strange, because all her friends already went to bathroom, he felt very strange, because she did not join her friends to go to bathroom. He asked Destiny why she did not go to bathroom. below is their conversation.

David:"are you going to bathroom?"

Destiny:"I have full bladder, but I don't want to go, because I just eaten a lot, I am full. "

David:"do you usually go to bathroom when your  stomach is empty?"

Destiny:"I don't want to squat when my stomach is full."

David:"do you squat to pee?"

Destiny:...............

(i think what she mean "squat" was actually hovering. David was came from Hong Kong, he did not know how popular squat toilet is in mainland China. I think Destiny would used the word "squat" a lot when she was in China, she may use the word "squat" as hover, since there is no formal  term in Chinese for hovering, except several slang terms.)

after a while, Destiny felt she really need to pee. she went to the bathroom. when pass by the door of men's room, she said to those who came in and came out:" you guys are lucky, because you can stand, you don't need to squat." eventually, she just went to a empty ladies room by her self, because all girls were already finish peeing, the ladies room was very empty.

I once read a article in a Chinese website, it was called"the secret inside Chinese women's room"(if I remembered correctly) The author was a married woman. She mention one evening, when she and her husband go to eat dinner together in a restaurant. at the end of the dinner, both the man and the woman had drank a lot, both of them had to pee. the bathroom in the restaurant is gender segregation, with western toilets that were kind of dirty. when they were about to separate into different side of bathroom, the man did not even care about his wife's situation, and he even joke about the peeing position that his wife about to use. before they separate into different gender side of the bathroom, the man said to his wife:"hey,sweetheart, you are about to practice your horse stance tonight. good luck!"

(horse stance is a common posture in Chinese martial art. which two feet go apart, pointing forward, bend 90 degree,thigh parallel to floor, as if one is riding a horse. the Chinese term is "Zamabu" which is also used as a slang term by Chinese women as hover to pee. it is common in mandarin speaking region in mainland China. In Hong Kong or in other Cantonese speaking region, the slang term used by women for hovering to pee is "mo ying deng". it mean invisible chair.  )

the woman mentioned above felt very disappointed  when she heard that her husband joke about her bathroom position and did not even care about her bathroom situation.

in most of time, when women answer to men about those bathroom conversation, most of those women were already married or in relationship, but their husband or boyfriend did not even care  about their bathroom situation, therefore they talk to other men instead.

On 5/6/2023 at 11:21 PM, Carb0nBased said:

I almost couldn't imagine the start of a relationship being based around asking a woman about her peeing, though of course many of us might dream about such a thing...

I have never heard any relationship that begin with asking a woman about her peeing, but for those who already began a relationship, at least in some places in China, couple can see each other peeing in public bathroom.

in some night clubs and ballrooms in China, there are single stall all genders bathrooms which is better design for couple. each bathroom with one western toilet with no urinal. a couple can go into the bathroom together, but only one person at a time can pee. women who hover to pee on western toilet may bring their boyfriend to the bathroom to hold their hand while they pee in order to prevent them from falling. when couple go to bathroom together, man usually pee first (not the lady first, which is unlike the west). after the man finish peeing in stand position, his girlfriend will pee in hovering position, his job is to hold her two hands in front just like ballroom dancing when she is hovering to pee, so she will not fall down. in such situation, men would want to pee first. the women need to hold their pee a little longer even if they feel urge, wait until their boyfriend finish peeing before they can pee.

it seem that bathroom norm influence people's relationship inside bathroom. modern bathroom have long been considered to be community center of women in modern Chinese culture, since men don't usually go to bathroom together. the all gender bathroom with single stall influence women's relationship with other people differently compare to the gender segregation bathroom. In all gender bathroom with single stall, women can go to bathroom with their boyfriend or husband. when they hovering to pee, they can getting support by holding hands with their partners by holding their hands. but at the same time, in single stall all gender bathroom, women cannot make new friends inside the bathroom, they cannot talk to their same sex friends about their husband or boyfriends in a gender segregation environment without being heard by the men.

in gender segregation bathroom with western toilet stalls in China, the men may not even care about the difficulty of their wives or girlfriend, some of them even joke about their peeing position before they separate into different gender sign of the bathroom. the women side of a gender segregation bathroom would be more focus on the relationship between women rather than couples. especially, in a women's room with open squat toilet, women can talk to each other about their boyfriend, their father, their husband, or even their sons, without fear of being heard by men, while seeing each other peeing.  women will feel more equality in open bathroom in gender segregation environment, because women can pee together at the same time, and everyone squat, no one stand, unlike the all gender single stall bathroom, which men pee first in stand position while women pee second in hovering position. this kind of experience cannot be found in all gender single stall bathroom. therefore, different kind of bathroom focus on different kind of relationship. the all gender single stall bathroom which a couple can go inside at the same time, seem imply a Status quo of traditional family value. although the women may feel safer and being protected while holding hand with their boyfriend while hovering to pee, it may also reinforce the belief of their bodily disadvantage that they need support from men. on the other hand,in a bathroom with open squat toilets in a gender segregation environment,it represent gender equality and a higher status of modern women that can be independent from men.

2 hours ago, yellowii said:

What's the Chinese term for a forward stream?

I don't think Chinese have any official term for a forward stream. they just use the term "yitiaoxian"(一条线), which literally  mean "one straight line".

On 6/20/2023 at 4:54 PM, Havelock said:

We have previously talked of the Chinese associations and preferences for forward streams. It's interesting to see written evidence of this in a Chinese novel. Thank you for the contribution. Where did you find a copy of the novel? How did you find it?

This is came from a internet novel in China. The author's name, Duan Yu is probably a fake name,not a real name. (the term "Duan Yu" means quench of desire, in Chinese language) since this is not a famous author outside of internet circle, I don't think there is any hard copy of such novel.

honestly, I don't really interested in reading novels, and I hardly even read any. I only use google search engine and use the Chinese idiom as keyword to found such novels. there are people in several Chinese internet forums who discuss about the idiom about forward stream, almost all of their   knowledge about the existence of such idiom is came from novels. I know at least two more novels that mention such idiom about forward stream. all of them were written by different authors.

On 6/20/2023 at 7:51 AM, colette888 said:

in truth, full of inner meanings and implications... 

I am interested in how other people understand the inner meanings of this story.

for me, this story really tell a lot about the social norm inside ladies room in China.

in some places, the stalls inside women's room don't have door. they only have partitions. women go to bathroom together in order to guard each other, to make sure that they are not seeing by other female strangers while they are peeing. in such situation, when,two women go to bathroom together,the first woman squat and pee inside the stall, the second woman stand in front of the stall to guard the first woman, wait until the first woman finish peeing. after the first woman finish peeing, the second woman begin to squat and pee in the stall. the first woman stand in front of the stall and guard the second woman. in such cultural environment, when women go to bathroom while go outside with same sex friends, the more dominant woman in the group would generally propose to pee first, other women who feel urge to pee will follow her. if no other women feel urge to pee, she may need to go to bathroom alone. since she is more confident about her body, she will not be shy to squat to pee in front of other women. on the other hand, other women who are more quiet and shy will wait until the other women to propose to pee first,so the other women will function as door of the stall. inside the open bathroom, the more dominant women would generally pee first and other women pee second. they pee first in order to show other women how safe to pee in open bathroom, and then, they will guard other women who feel shy to pee in open bathroom. Just like Xifang, the first woman who propose to pee, while other women were already desperate. she found the safe place for her and other women to pee. she peed first to show other women that it was safe to pee, and then she guard other women while they peed.

in such environment, when two women go to bathroom together, a dominant woman go to bathroom with a non dominant woman, just like a couple when they go inside the bathroom. non dominant women will feel safer and less embarrassing to go out with dominant women. dominant women would like to be followed by other women, so they would be look more sociable. people generally attracted to the opposite, just like feminine women are attracted to masculine men, but inside public bathroom in a gender segregation environment,women's bathroom became a new dimension of attraction to the opposite which is a shadow world that reflect the relationship between men and women in a society. in such single sex community, feminine women would be attracted to the masculinity and dominant natures of other women, which make them feel safer and being protected. on the other hand, more dominant women would be attracted to the feminine nature of other women, which make them feel like being in charge, being the leader rather than follower, and look like more sociable. women peeing together while making conversation(rather they squat next to each other in open squat toilet with no partition, no door, or seeing each other face to face, in toilet stall with partition without door, or sit next stall of each other in standard western toilet stall, talk to each other while peeing) is a non sexual way to show intimacy and attach to each other, just like heterosexual couple holding hand while going out.

I am not sure when was the story took place according to the author, but I guess it was probably at the beginning of twenty century, since it mention factory and separated gender bathroom which did not exist in ancient China, it could not be too long ago.

in ancient China, it was common for young and unmarried women to pee together in order to guard each other, because there was lack of proper bathroom facility, moreover,men and women did not have equal status at that time,unmarried women were even more considered to be vulnerable  group,especially when they go to bathroom alone, it was norm for unmarried women to be friends to form a safe network. (women were evolved to pee in group, while men were evolved to pee alone. even in modern time with entire different bathroom environment, people still re enact this ancient instinct.women more likely go to bathroom with same sex friends, while men generally go to bathroom alone)in such harsh situation, women who were too easy going and push over were unlikely to protect their group members, therefore, women in ancient time prefer more dominant leaders.

although communal urination was common among young and single women in ancient china, it was uncommon among married women, because that kind of protection network was mainly for unmarried women, while married women were supposed be protected by their husband or male members of their husband's family. but in modern time, in a gender segregation bathroom environment, which is unknown to the ancient, something is changed. not only single women go to bathroom together, even married women or women in relationship would go to bathroom together, in a gender segregation bathroom environment when their husband or boyfriend cannot be presented. even in such safe environment for women to pee (which no man is presented)women still re enact their ancient instinct when they go to bathroom together in order to protect each other. for married women or women in relationship, in ladies room in gender segregation environment when their boyfriend or husband cannot be presented,their relationship with other women became alternative to heterosexual attraction. they re enact their instinct to find partners with opposite characteristics. when a dominant woman and a non dominant woman go out as friends, and go to bathroom together, though both of them were  heterosexual and married or in relationship, while their boyfriend or husband could not present in a gender segregation bathroom environment, they could still experience the new dimension of attraction to the opposite.

in the story, most female characters were married or in relationship, this is more likely reflect modern ladies room situation than the ancient. but it also reflect the situation in the past, which women protected themselves from men in male dominant society. it create a environment of attraction to the opposite between women with opposite kind of personality. this kind of attraction of opposite, although common in women's room, it hardly exist in men's room, because not only men and women have entirely different organs to urinate and reproduce, they have different form of defense  mechanism. in the history of evolution, there was a tendency of female animals lived in group while male animals lived alone. almost all female animals have chance to mate, while not all male animals have chance to mate. male animals of a same species had to fight each other to dead, only the winners can have opportunity to mate. the stronger they are, the more wives they get. female animals live in group in order to protect themselves from sexual attack  from male animals to make sure that only those who are strong enough will have chance to mate, in order to avoid inferior sperm which might lead them to genetically extinct. homosexual behaviors that are less common among male animals and more common among female animals, are not for reproductive reason, but it is a way to attach to each other.  inside of modern men's room reflect the  competition between same sex in the history, which is different from the attraction to the opposite in women's room.some researchers who study male urinals in men's room in social context, suggest that men generally will prefer peeing along rather than peeing stand next to each other. men prefer keep some distance from other men while peeing on urinals. when men are close to each other while peeing on male urinals, they will feel more stress,their pee speed will be faster, their pee sound will be louder than when they pee alone. historical, it was uncommon for men to pee together in the past, before the introduce of male urinals in gender segregation communal bathroom. because the different nature between men and women's organ of urinating and reproduction, when men pee together, in the past, they would more likely to compete against each other to see who pee the furthest. a lot of modern men bring this kind of ancient defense mechanism into men's room on male urinals, therefore, men are more likely to feel stress and pee faster and louder when peeing side by side next to other men. on the other hand, it is less likely for women to compete with each other while peeing. when two women who have opposite personality that attract to each other go to bathroom together, they will generally feel more relax, and pee slower, more enjoy her time with her same sex friend or family member. there would be no peeing contest take place. on the other hand, when the women or girls who could not get along, when they happen to meet each other in bathroom (like classmate in school, or coworkers, or inmates of women prison, who cannot get along with each other, and they have to share bathroom.) they might not talk to each other inside the bathroom, but they might secretly observe each other's stream to compete against each other to see who pee furthest.(since open squat toilet is common in China,women can observe each other's stream while squat to pee, just like men stand to to on urinal in men's room).

inside a gender segregation environment(such as public bathroom, shower room, separated gender school,or even prison) women are generally easier to adapt to such environment,get along with other people of same sex, and making new friends. men on the other hand, will feel more stressful in such environment. I think a gender segregation prison environment is a good example that reflect public bathroom environment. I heard that it is common for dominant men to rape non dominant men in prisons(in mainland china, Taiwan and Hong Kong). those men who rape other men are heterosexual. they rape other men not for sex, but for power. those men who were raped by other men were usually non masculine, being feminine, and look weak. historically, men fought each other to dead, in order to win over the women. but in a place have only men without women, those dominant men would still re enact their ancient instinct. they rape the weaker men instead after they win the fight. before there was any civilization or law, raping had been considered to be a kind of sexual selection, which male animals dominate over the bodies of female animals, so they can reproduce offspring, the preserve their genes,so they will not extinct. the masculine men in general tend find feminine quality to be attractive and choose feminine women as mates. but in a gender segregation environment, there are only men without women, those dominant men might find another way to release their need. they find other men who are less masculine and have more feminine quality as a place to relieve their need. on the other hand, in a place that only have women, without men, feminine women will find other way to release their need. they tend to be attracted to masculine quality of other women, which make the dominant women better companions for the feminine women.

unlike the women with opposite personality, who mutually attached to each other, the men with different personality would be dominant over one another. even in gender segregation environment in modern prison or bathroom, both men and women still re enact their mating strategy that was evolved long time ago. men still have instinct to fight other men in order to win over women. women still have instinct to attach to a group identity to protect themselves and each other from unwanted sex from men, and finding partners who have opposite attraction. feminine women would attracted to more dominant women because they can get protection, but on the other hand, non dominant men would try to avoid dominant men in order to avoid  being dominated over. this can be seen on men's urinal in men's room. men who are more confident and dominant are less likely fear being approached or approach other men on urinals, on the other hand, non dominant men who are less confident will try to keep distance from other men. they will feel more anxiety when they are approached by other men on urinals.this may be the reason why a lot of men perceive men's room as a more dangerous place, while women perceive women's room as a safe place. inside the bathroom, men consider each other as competitor while women consider each other as companion. men generally prefer empty and quiet bathroom. when two men are peeing on urinals in a same bathroom, they may feel more stress and pee louder than when they were alone. this may be even more real when they stand closer to each other. to compete to see who pee louder is a mentality of dominant over another. on the other hand, some women prefer loud and crowded bathroom,because they don't want other people heard that their pee sound were too low or too quiet. when they were in empty and quiet bathroom, their peeing sound volume will be more obvious. they would choose to go to bathroom with same sex friends peeing at the same time, so their pee sound can cover each other, and make the pee sound louder.  men generally pee slower when the men's room was empty because it lack of stress or competition with other men. and they would pee louder and faster when peeing with other men. on the other hand, women will pee slower when they go to bathroom with friends because it is less stressful and feel safe to pee while talking to friends, and their pee sound would be loud enough to cover each other. A woman would pee faster or louder when she pee alone in empty and quiet women's room,because she would feel lonely and more stressful and more anxiety to pee alone, and she  subconsciously make her pee sound loud enough to communicate with other people that other people know that she is there. therefore, peeing loudly is not just release stress, it can also be a non verbal communication in subconscious level. for men in crowded men's room, it is a express of compete with other men. for women in quiet empty bathroom, it make herself known to others. the same loud peeing sound have entirely different meaning in men and women's room.

the relationship between women is different from the relationship between men inside bathroom. men in bathroom are more focus on individual identity which try to win over one other, women in bathroom are more focus on group identity which attach to each other. because men had been historically compete with each other to win over women, only the winner were allow to mate. although there is no women inside men's room, but the mentality of fight other men to win over women are already imprint in many men's subconscious. therefore, a lot of men may be  unconsciously have pee contest with other men on urinals in men's room without acknowledge it. but on the other side of the bathroom, in women's room, women are unconsciously seeking partner with quality of opposite sex, although there is no man inside women's room, but opposite attraction have deeply imprinted in a lot of women's subconscious. when they go to women's room, which obviously no men inside, they are unconsciously attracted to  same sex friends who have opposite kind of personality and go to bathroom with them.

in a place that have only women without men, women will try to attach to their own gender group and less likely to fight or try to dominate over each other. this difference from men, not only can be found in public bathroom, even the situation in women's prison is different from men's prison mentioned above.I heard a story that a heterosexual couple was wrongly accused of involve in murder crime, and both man and woman were sent to prison in a gender segregation environment. they were not allow to see each other, but they only allow to sent letters to each other. they could only see each other in court. the man feel very lonely in prison because he lived together with her girlfriend and saw each other everyday before both of them were locked up in prison. on the other hand, not long after the woman was sent to women prison, she got a new partner in women prison. she could get along with another woman who truly committed crime. this might be the attraction to the opposite personality. later, the woman's female partner was truly sentenced and send to another prison to truly serve her sentence. the woman did not even worry rather her and her boyfriend could get out of prison. she only worried that if she plea innocent in the court, she will not be able to see her female partner anymore.

in such gender segregation environment, men subconsciously fight each other in order to win over women. on the other side, feminine women subconsciously ready to accept masculine partners that they can trust and depend on.masculine women will find partners that they can protect. it look like a hell for some men, but a heaven for some women. they were in a same building, but have different experience in different side of the building.

I think the gender segregation bathroom is a little bit like a short term version of gender segregation prison situation mention above,by studying men and women in prison, we may understand more about human mating strategy and how they reflect people's relationship inside gender segregation bathroom,because both of them have men and women(including couples) in a same building,doing same thing at the same time that they have no choice to not to do that thing,but the men and women have to separate from each other,cannot meet each other, and have different experience in different side of the building. when couples go to pee in public bathroom in gender segregation environment, only men will think about their partner on the other side, while women will thinking about each other inside the same women's room. therefore, it is more stressful for men to pee on urinal in a crowded men's room. although they all knowing that their wives or girlfriends are peeing on the other side of a same bathroom at the same time with different group of people in different peeing posture, but the couples cannot see each other while peeing, the women hardly even think about the other side of the bathroom, and women have better relationship with other women in bathroom than men with each other in men's room.

This Story  came from a Chinese novel, which called "things in wild village" written by Duan Yu. I translated this story from Chinese to English. most of the translation are paraphrase rather than literal translation. this story including  scenario of eleven Chinese women desperate   squat side by side while peeing. it discuss how women of different personality and relationship status relate to each other inside bathroom. it mention how women support and protect each other  in group, in a less safe bathroom environment. it especially mention how women with more dominant personality trait can make decision and making other women feel safer to pee when there was lack of safe bathroom facility.

this story also including platonic relation between brothers and sisters in law, and  describe how public bathroom environment reflect the relationship between men and women. at the end of the story, it mention Chinese  cultural preference/admiration/idiom for forward streams.

the people appear in this story include five female characters who's named Xifeng, Yuzhu, Fang Fang, Xiaoyan and Taidi. it also include seven other unnamed women. two male characters include Zhang Jianguo and Zhang Dashuan. the story happened in Daliangshan factory. Dalianshang factory was found by a group of male members of a family, and their wives and sisters in law.

    most women in the factory were very frivolous. Even while they were working, the married women would flirt with their brothers in law, and made a lot of childish jokes. Among other women in the factory, Tadi was very shy and exceptionally quiet, unlike other women in the factory. When other women flirted with men, Taidi just keep quiet and keep doing her work.whenever Tadi was approached by men, she just smile, remain silence, and her face turn red. this might be the reason why Taidi was still single and still a virgin at that time. on the other hand, Xifeng was a dominant woman in this story. she was confident and self assured. she was not afraid of making her wants or wish known. she could make decision for herself and other women. she could take care of herself and other women in the factory.this story is around Xifeng and Zhang Jianguo(Zhang Jianguo is Xifeng's brother in law and Xiaoyan's husband ). Xifeng and Zhang Jianguo might be attracted to each other, but in front of other people, they often argue with each other.

     The story happened in the first day of the factory open. during the lunch time after working for several hours, both men and women were very tired. They took a lunch break. At that time,Xifeng suddenly wanted go to pee.   she asked Yuzhu: "Yuzhu, I'm going to urinate, do you want to urinate?" Yuzhu said, "yes, I want to pee."  

  "Fangfang, Xiaoyan, how about you ?” Xifeng asked again. The two women said: "I'm going too, let's pee together."
The four women took the lead, eight other women follow them because they had hold their bladder for entire morning, but most of them did not dare to take the lead, although bathroom in the factory were separate women from men, both men and women's bathroom were under construction.  there were still men working inside the women's room. most women felt embarrassing. Xifeng was the first women who dare to take the lead, but only three women follow her at the beginning. and then, eight more women follow them. The women look around and found out that entire factory was occupied by men, including women' room. among the four women who took the lead,neither xiaoyan, yuzhu nor fang fang could find any safe place for them nor other women to pee. Xifeng was the first and only woman who discover that there is ally at the back of the factory, that allow her and her other female followers pee safely. but when the women arrive the alley, unfortunately, Zhang Jianguo was leading few other men cleaning the ground.

  Xifeng  didn't care about anything, went up and grabbed Zhang Jianguo by the collar, and said, "Jianguo, get out! "
  Zhang Jianguo asked, "Why?"
  Xifeng said, "I want to pee. not only me, but also your wife Xiaoyan, the wife of your younger brother  Fangfang, we all have to pee."
  Zhang Jianguo said: "Then you pee, it is not my business."
  Xifeng said: "Nonsense, we  peed together, and once we pull our pants down, wouldn’t it be taken advantage of by you ?”
 Zhang Jianguo said, “How much do you think your thing is worth? Who hasn’t seen it before?”

Xifeng  glared and said, “ Do you want to go? If you don’t, I’ll yell at you.”

Jianguo giggled, and said to a few buddies: “Women are about to pee, brothers, avoid it... ..."

Hearing this, several young people laughed and laughed, carrying the shovel and pushing the cart away. Make room for women.

a dozen women were all   desperate. When they saw the man leaving, they rushed in a group.

Xifeng peed first. after she finish peeing, she guard the other eleven women to prevent men from peeking.

yuzhu asked Xifeng:"is it safe?"

Xifeng waved her hand, like commanding soldiers, said "it is safe, get ready....goǃ"

once Xifang said "goǃ". all eleven women  Immediately pull their pants down, squat down next to each other and pee at the same time. because they had hold for entire morning. their stream came out as strong as the yellow bursts its bank.

  Not far away, Zhang Jianguo covered his mouth and could not stop laughing. He really wanted to see how spectacular a scene would be if a dozen women in Daliangshan factory relieved their bladder together.

after relieving, the women felt relax and satisfied.

  Zhang Jianguo asked Xifeng: "Did you finish peeing?"

Xifeng said:"yes"

  Jianguo asked: "did you enjoy your peeing?"

  Xifeng said: "mind your business!"

  Jianguo asked:"Who peed the most?"

  Xifeng said: " Your wife, Xiaoyan peed the most."

A dozen women relieved themselves together. Not only the men on the construction site knew that, Zhang Dashuan(uncle of Zhang jianguo ) also knew it.

Dashuan had pee fetish.after a while, he pretended to relieve himself and walked into the back of the factory building. but he did not want to pee. all he wanted was look at the puddle of women pee.

Zhang Jianguo felt he need to pee too. he came to the back of the factory and saw his uncle Zhang Dashan looking at the puddle. He felt very strange.

  "Uncle Dashuan, what are you looking at?" Zhang Jianguo asked.

Zhang Dashuan said:"I check the water left by the women.there is a mystery here."

  Zhang Jianguo hurriedly asked: "What's the mystery?"
Zhang Dashuan said:"through the puddle, I can see how many virgins, and how many non virgins here."

Zhang Jianguo  asked, "So amazing? Uncle Dashuan, how many virgins? how many non virgins?"

  Zhang Dashuan said "Three virgins, nine non virgins."

Zhang Jianguo ask:"How do you know?"

Zhang Dashuan said:"virgins have forward stream, while non virgins have downward stream. those three that shot far in straight line were virgins."

Zhang Jianguo said:"it is amazing."

last week,my younger sister told me that she feel inconvenient to pee in western toilet while wearing long skirt, because she need to pull up her long skirt and hold it while peeing. I told her to tie her skirt a knot in front of her, so she would not have to hold it.my younger sister began her transition at the mid of last year. she is not used to go to bathroom like other female do. it is not convenient for a transgender female to go to bathroom in public. she did not know if she should go to men's room or women's room, therefore, she had not use public bathroom for almost half year. she seem to had a large bladder because she  could drink a a bottle of water and  hold her pee for half day without going to bathroom while going out. now, she became more used to go to ladies room than before.

last week, we talked about how female school uniform in Asian countries influence peeing experience in girls bathroom . My younger sister told me that in Japanese high school, girls are required to wear short skirt as school uniform. I told her that it was opposite in Hong Kong. the high school girls in Hong Kong are required to wear long dress as school uniform. she felt very shock to learn that high schools in Hong Kong have entire opposite requirement. I felt surprise too, since I had never heard any schools require female students wear short skirt in Hong Kong. western toilets are more common in Hong Kong, while squat toilets are more common in Japan. it is more common for female high students to sit down to pee on western toilet while lifting up her long dress in Hong Kong. on the other hand, in Japan, it is more common for Japanese female students to squat while wearing short skirt.the combination of short skirt and squat toilet in Japan seem more convenient to pee than in Hong Kong and mainland China. In many high school in Hong Kong, girls are required to wear long skirt, while western toilets are more common in girls bathroom, which make urination less convenient. In mainland China, although open squat toilets are more common in high schools, but unlike other developed countries, female students are required to wear pants rather than skirt in most of schools most of time. in some kindergarten in china, school uniform are required, and little girls are required to were skirt, while other kindergarten do not required the kids to wear school uniform, but a lot of little girls wear skirt. squat toilets are also common in kindergarten in china, but at that age, some little girls still have problem to squat. there are handles in the bathroom for the girls to hold in order to support themselves while squat to pee so they will not fall down(the handles are partitions of squat toilets). girls were taught to use one hand to hold the handle, another hand is use to hold their skirt while squat to pee.

although my younger sister feel short skirt to be more convenient when it came to ladies room, she feel that was unsafe to wear short skirt which expos her body in public in mixed gender environment, because she fear of being sexually harassed by men in public places which outside of gender segregation environment. if she wear short skirt while going out, she prefer to be accompanied by other female friends. (this similar to some Chinese women who go to pee together in Chinese ladies room with open squat toilets which they need to exposed their lower body part to other female strangers while peeing. they feel safer to go to bathroom with other same sex friends, even in gender segregation environment. it seem that it is common for women to feel anxiety when they exposed their leg or lower body part in public, whether going out while wearing short skirt or peeing in open squat toilet. the way they balance this kind of anxiety and become less embarrassed is to find same sex partners to go out together or use bathroom together while show the same body part to each other.)

we talked to our third aunt yesterday. my younger sister ask her whether she like wearing skirt or not. she said that she wear skirt when she was younger, but now she does not wear skirt anymore. she said wearing skirt is very inconvenient. she said that skirts are better for young women rather than old women. when I was in China, she almost always wear skirt every time I saw her squat to pee. I hardly seen any of my cousins pee when they wear skirt(I only seen my fourth cousins peeing in sitting position while holding skirt up,but never seen her peeing in squat position while wearing skirt . I have never seen my other cousins peeing while wearing skirt. my first cousin almost never wear skirt at all, except school uniform that required in school), but most of my aunts wear skirts when I saw them peeing in squat position when I was in China(except my first aunt who never wear skirt at all). They always pull their skirt up while squatted to pee . I have never seen any of them pull down their skirt while peeing. I remember that when my mother was in China, she wear skirt most of time, but after she went to Hong Kong, she hardly even wear skirt. I am not sure if this have anything to do with different bathroom facility. when I saw my mother pee in squat position in China, she almost always wear skirt, but after I went to Hong Kong, when I saw my mother peeing in sitting position, she wear pants most of time(but I saw her wearing skirt while sit down to pee in western toilet several times.  ). my mother almost always pull her skirt up when she pee whether on western toilet or squat toilet. I have never seen her pull down her skirt to pee.

On 2/6/2023 at 11:19 PM, Havelock said:

others brought up anthropological evidence from non-porn sites (such as the of cultural preference/admiration/idiom for forward streams).We are lucky that some of these cultural expressions still exist to be recorded in the age of the internet.

I read your another post in another thread which your wife mentioned that in Chinese  agricultural society Women would pee and socialize together outside which naturally led to observing pee streams.  (they came up with a idiom that virgins more likely than non virgins to have forward stream)

I feel her idea was interesting, because according to my research in Chinese history and anthropology, in ancient China, although communal urination was common for single women, they were hardly mix with married women while peeing. single women usually did not pee with married women(unless they were relate to each other) in past. unlike the open Chinese ladies room in modern time, which both married and single women can mixed together and observed each other's stream. but even in school in Modern china that female teachers and students use same girls bathroom, the students go to bathroom during break time while the teachers go to bathroom during class session.(i heard that in some women prisons in Hong Kong, prisoners were separated into different sessions of prison by age groups) if virgins and non virgins do not mix with each other, they will not be able to observe each other's stream. (unlike bathroom room in college, public places,workplaces or at home that virgins and non virgins can mix together and observe each other's stream)

your wife mentioned that the idiom apply to before and after child birth. it was interpret in biological point of view, but some people in china interpret the idiom from more cultural and psychological point of view. they said that this is because married women are more self restraint than single women. although i think biological reason may be correct, psychological reason do play role. for example, although both my mother and my fourth cousin had forward stream while squat to pee when they were in china, their stream were different when they used western toilet. when my mother used western toilet when she was in Hong Kong, she tried to make her stream down.her stream sound were discontinuous (began with slow stream, low volume and then get louder and louder)and she suddenly stop her stream at the mid of a peeing session every time when her stream hit the wall.(she stopped her stream several times in one peeing session.) on the other hand, my fourth cousin never stop her stream(even her stream hit the wall) at the mid of peeing session until she finish peeing. her stream is strong and continuously. she never restrain until her bladder is completely empty.

On 4/18/2023 at 11:37 PM, Carb0nBased said:

It's kind of ironic that in cultures that are historically (and to some degree presently) conservative on the subject of homosexuality, it's almost more acceptable to go seeking partners in restrooms. In most of the western world now, homosexuality is quite normalized, but hitting on people in public bathrooms is seen as pervy and very much frowned upon, except in designated gay venues.

it is frowned upon too in China and Hong Kong if it was happen in men's room, but some research show that women are more likely to tolerate homosexuality than men. not only in china and Hong Kong, even according to a British journal of criminology, Sarah Moore (a senior lecturer at the Center for Criminology and Sociology at Royal Holloway, University of London)done a survey in 20 different public bathrooms in Long dong, from both men and women side. men are more likely than women to worry about being sexual attack by member of same sex inside gender segregation bathroom.

it is very interesting that how gender bathroom rules influence relationship. in high school in Hong Kong, during class session, many teachers do not allow two or more students of same sex go to bathroom together, because they don't want their students to spend the class time to talk to each other inside bathroom while peeing. they only allow two students of opposite sex go to bathroom at a time in separate gender bathroom, so they cannot talk to each other while peeing. but no one can prevent them from thinking about each other while peeing. that is easy for the boy to hit on the girl after they finish peeing. unlike going to bathroom during the break time, which girls go to bathroom together in group,which is harder to approach,but during the class session, the girl only allow to pee alone, more likely to feel lonely,which make her more vulnerable. the boy might even ask the girl her peeing experience, some thing like "how was the toilet seat?","was the toilet seat warn or cold?","was the toilet seat dirty or clean?".

On 2/6/2023 at 11:19 PM, Havelock said:

She has, for example, commented how it's funny that mom’s in the US think forward streams are a curse because girls may make a mess over the front of a western toilet, while its seen as blessing in China where it conveniently goes in front of their feet when squatting outside and no downside in a squat toilet. She thought this was common sense and I’m being a silly westerner for not seeing the practicality in context.

I have never heard that any parents were annoyed when their daughters have forward stream(other than in this forum). it is quite the opposite in China. it is common for little girls to squat to pee together outdoor in playground or amusement park in public, and their parents may compare the stream of their daughters with other girls. some of those parents may feel not normal when their daughters have downward stream while seeing other girls have forward stream. I read some Chinese forums and saw some parents who saw others girls pee further than their daughters would ask doctors whether it is normal for their daughters with downward stream.

I have never seen or heard any female with forward stream make mess over the front of western toilet. (other than in this forum, I have never seen or heard any where else)

both my mother and my fourth cousin had kind of forward stream while squat to urinate when they where still in China, but none of them have problem with western toilet as I have seen. when my mother was in China, when she was younger (in her early 30s) she almost always go with full force while squatting. when she use western toilet to urinating in public bathroom in Hong Kong, she always sat. but unlike when she squat in China, when she sat, she never go with full force. she almost always try to control her stream downward, and her stream almost always aim downward and aim at the water rather than hit the wall, as I heard. her pee sound were at non continuous interval and often begin to pee slowly in low volume, and then get louder and louder, and suddenly discontinue on the mid of peeing section when her stream hit the wall (her peeing sound often stop several times in one peeing section.she stop her stream suddenly for 2 or 3 seconds each time when her forward stream hit the wall, and then restart relieving her stream in low volume, two seconds after she stop) when she sat on western toilet. which was different from when she was squat. on the other hand, my fourth cousin almost always hit the wall with full force rather than hit the water when she sit on western toilet. she had forward stream and her pee sound were continuous when she sit down to pee just like when she squat, unlike my mother, only had forward continuous stream while squat, and make her stream downward and non continuous while sit. although both my mother and my fourth cousin had forward stream in full speed continuously when they squat to pee in China, my cousin go full speed and never try to control the stream downward when she sit just like she squat, but my mother control her stream downward while sit on western toilet. other than my mother and my fourth cousin, I have never seen anyone pee in both sit and squat position.

On 4/3/2023 at 11:10 PM, Havelock said:

Do you have any specific memories of others peeing in public?

according to my experience, public urination is more common in mainland china, and less common in Hong Kong "I am not sure about Taiwan, because I have never been there) , more common among younger population, and less common among older population, more common among male population, less common among female population. in Hong Kong, public urination is illegal, but there is a lot of parents still let their children to do this. their parents need to pay the fine if they were seen by the police. for adults, public urination would be even more serious, because they can be prosecuted for indecent exposure which can send them to jail if convicted. but for children, it is less serious. male population are more likely break this rule than female population. I even saw middle age men pee in public in Hong Kong. For example, I saw a man stand inside a  alley and peeing at night. also, another man I saw, was peeing in park, in rainy day, were not too many people in park, and the ground was already wet. but I have never even once see any adult women pee outdoor in public in Kong Kong. It is common for little girls to squat to pee in playground In Hong Kong, but almost, all of their parents were came from mainland China. Almost all those girls were in kindergarten. they will stop doing this after they get into elementary school. in mainland China female public urination is more common than in Hong Kong, but even in mainland China, the oldest female I ever seen peeing outdoor in public was a girl around high school age, probably, not older than 16 years old. I saw her squat to pee in amusement park.

I remember once when my mother, my cousin, and me went to eat in a Chinese restaurant in China, my cousin wanted to go to pee, but the restaurant only had western toilet. she did not want to use western toilet, because she considered western toilet to be dirty. (she is my oldest cousin. she lived in China most of time. she came to united states very late) my mother told her that she can hover.my mother used the Chinese term "wu ying deng" for hovering. the term literally translate as "no shadow chair" or "invisible chair". it mean peeing in semi squat position as if sitting on a invisible chair. this term is very popular in internet circle in Hong Kong, but I have never seen any Chinese female use this urination position in person. in china, all western toilets are closed door, unlike the open squat toilet. I have never seen my oldest cousin peeing on western toilet personally, but I saw her squat to pee when we lived together in china. I never seen any of my aunts sit down or hover on public toilet either, at least not in my memories. but in my memories, my mother almost always sit down to urinate on public toilet in Hong Kong when she was younger. I am not sure what posture she use now as she get older. I saw two of my cousins sat down on toilet seat while urinating. one of them was born in united states. another was born in China, but she came to united states when she was very young. she got used to urinate on both sitting and squat, both open and close door toilet. when she first came to The United States, she still keep doing outdoor public urination, although it is highly frowned upon in the United States.

other than those, I have never seen any Chinese female sit or hover to pee in western toilet in public bathroom in person. most other information I have about Chinese women urinate on western toilet are came from internet, but I seen more people squat when I was in my country.

according to some research, hovering is very common among women in Chinese peaking circle. in Hong Kong and Taiwan(and some European countries), where western toilet is more common than it is in mainland China, some ladies room have  sign notice inside ladies room to suggest the women to sit rather than hover. others instruct women hover in correct way.

When I was in eighth grade in Hong Kong, during class time in school, a girl was desperate, have full bladder during the class. she asked the teacher permission to go to bathroom. although the teacher allowed her to go, she said that she needed to go to pee  with her friend. the teacher told her that she was not allow to pee together with her friend, because only two people of opposite sex(one boy and one girl in separate bathroom) at a time is allow during class. she said that she need to go with her same sex friend because she feel anxiety in quiet bathroom when there was no other girls inside during class time, her peeing was hard to come out without her friend pee with her.

although some research show that shy bladder syndrome is more common among men than women, but female population with shy bladder syndrome may be under estimate. men with shy bladder syndrome would fear other men watched them them pee, so they choose to pee in a empty and quiet men's room. this kind of problem is uncommon among women. on the contrary, there are more women with shy bladder syndrome fear peeing alone in quiet ladies bathroom, which they feel being isolated or loneliness. she may fear other people became easier to heard her pee while alone. she may choose a noisy and crowded bathroom or go to bathroom with friends to cover the pee sound.

when I was sixth grade in school in Hong Kong, during a field trip to a camp site, the teacher suggested that the girls  should go to bathroom with same sex friends in order to protect each other, and should not go to bathroom without friends to accompany with.

going to bathroom during class time in school is more advantageous for boys, and disadvantageous for girls, because many teachers only allow two students of opposite sex at a time go to bathroom in gender segregation environment, because the teachers do not want their students to use the class times to talk and socializing inside the bathroom. the teacher given the permission for their students to relives their body while control the social perspective inside bathroom. this further suggest that there is really social perspective of peeing public bathroom, not just bodily relieves. the teachers did not allow more than one students of same sex go to bathroom together during class time. they only allow two students of opposite sex at a time, so they cannot talk to each other while peeing in a gender segregation environment.boys generally are more used to pee alone. girls are more used pee with same sex friends, and feel more anxiety to go to bathroom during class time when everyone were in class, and there was no other girls inside a quiet, empty bathroom.

but according to my memories in mainland China, the female teachers usually choose to pee during the class time rather than break time. at that time, the bathroom for students was not separate from teacher's bathroom. the female teachers use the same girl's room that the girls use(unlike Hong Kong, which student's bathroom is separate from teacher's bathroom) bathroom in school at that time have only squat open toilets. the stalls have only partitions with no door. everyone see each other squat to pee.the female teachers may try to avoid the break time to be in a same bathroom with their students, so they choose to pee alone during class time. going to girl's bathroom during class session mean differently than when it is in break time. during the class session, urination is almost purely biological and hardly social, because it is unlike for people to see each other pee at that time. the bathroom was empty and quiet. but during the break time, the girl's bathroom became noisy and crowded. it became place for socialization. therefore, the girls generally prefer going to bathroom at break time when it was noisy and crowded, the teachers on the other hand, go to bathroom when it became empty and quiet, no girls inside, it became a women's room.

in high school in mainland china, during break time, there is almost always a long line in front of girl's bathroom while the boy's bathroom is empty and quiet most of time. the break time is very short, probably around 15 to 20 minutes. many girls did not even have chance to relieve themselves before the class begin.

this is because there is different design in boys and girls bathroom. in boys room, the space for urination is separate from the space of defecation, but in girls bathroom, the space for urination and defecation is same. also, girls are more likely go to bathroom during break time, while boy may prefer go to bathroom during class. some girls may not feel really urgent to pee, but they just want to go with their friends, they just try to save more time to talk to each other, there for, more people go to girls room than boys room.

in order to solve this kind of issue, some high school design a new structure of girls bathroom. the of "urination only section" just like the boys room have. the "urination only section " have many squat urinals. defecation is not allow on squat urinal. the girls who defecate on squat urinal may be punish. the squat urinals have no door, no stall, no partition, so they can save more space for the girls to socialize with each other, and the girls can squat side by side, talk to each other in close distance without boundary.

On 4/3/2023 at 11:10 PM, Havelock said:

thank you for the contribution. I agree the social science and anthropological approach to pee fetish. It’s so much more interesting looking at it that way.

yes, it is more interesting to study peeing and bathroom behavior in social and cultural point of view, but there are only few of us in this forum are interested in this topic. it seem that there are more people who interested in this topic in china. most people in this forum are more interested in biological perspective of urination. by studying this topic from cultural point of view, we may understand lot of human behavior people done inside bathroom  unconsciously. 

one thing I found very interesting is that more women than men go to bathroom together with same sex friends, is considered to be a defense mechanism that have been developed through history which can use anthropology to explain. according to those studies,women in general are more likely to feel safer while going to bathroom with same sex friends, and fear of loneliness while peeing alone in public bathroom. on the other hand, men would feel less safe to pee with other men in gender segregation environment,fear of being watched by other men, and more likely to choose to pee alone, or peeing outdoor in public in mixed gender environment. this kind of defense mechanism came from ancient history when bathroom facility was less developed, young and unmarried women guarded each other while peeing outside. in modern time, this kind of defense mechanism is retain in a new context. this kind of defense mechanism is carried over to indoor ladies room. although there is no real danger inside ladies room in modern context, a lot of women still feel loneliness inside bathroom and fear of  peeing alone. the fear of isolation and loneliness while peeing alone in ladies room is due to the defense mechanism which may be the reason more women than men go to bathroom together with same sex friends. men and women have a entirely different defense mechanism through the evolutionary history when it came to bathroom behavior. this may be the reason why shy bladder syndrome is more common among men than women according to some study.

although female communal urination was a defense mechanism that developed through history, something is changed and apply to new context in modern bathroom environment. in ancient time, women who went to bathroom together were usually young and unmarried. because young and unmarried women were considered to be vulnerable group in ancient time, therefore, they created network to support and protect each other to find safety. they went to bathroom together to guard each other. but in modern time, the bathroom facility is in gender segregation environment, therefore,even married women or women in relationship will still re enact the defend mechanism to go to bathroom together when their husband or boyfriend cannot present.

just like women in ancient time, many modern women still go to bathroom together to find safety and protection, but the term "safety" is given a new meaning. single women in ancient time went to bathroom together and guard each other in order to protect themselves from male strangers.(they would be protected by their husband after marriage) but in modern time, married women or women in relationship find safety inside ladies room because they can complain about their boyfriend or husband and say thing behind the men's back with out fear of being heard by men in a gender segregation environment when their boyfriend or husband cannot be present. because the bathroom facility changed, their husbands were from being "protectors" became "the people that women protect themselves from". single women were considered to be vulnerable group in ancient time, but now, married women or women in relationship  is the group that protect themselves from their husband or boyfriend inside ladies room.

in china,people who choose to pee outside in public in mixed gender environment are likely to be single. married people or people in relationship  generally will not pee with people of opposite sex who are unrelated to each other in mixed gender environment in public.

in some places, gender segregation bathroom in public is mostly for couples.this can be a place for men and women who have relationship issues to separate from each other to calm themselves. for married women or women in relationship,taking a pee break in public bathroom is not just physically release, but it is also mentally relax when they separate from their husband or boyfriend. women can squat side by side and talk about their relationship issues while peeing.

when there are large gathering, partying or traveling outside in countryside, were mostly couples or families go, were there is no public toilet, while peeing,men and women will almost always separated from each other, people of same sex will pee side by side together in group. just like the story of my fifth aunt, when she traveled to jiuzhai valley, there were no bathroom in rural area. during the pee break, the guide asked the men go left side of the bus, and women go to the right side. women squatted side by side and peed next to each other. this kind of communal urination in gender segregation environment could re enact female defense mechanism which evolve from ancient time, which bring new social experience that different from mixed gender environment. women become closer to each other when they separated from their boyfriend or husband. in a place that only members of same sex are present, they can temporarily escape from relationship or family issues, create a new social environment, and calm themselves while relieving themselves.

there were many Chinese webpages I have read suggest that communal urination in gender segregation environment is socially significant for many Chinese women. Chinese ladies room is considered to be the community center of Chinese women. Some lesbians were searching partners inside ladies room, while women in heterosexual relationship can create alternative supporting network. this kind of gender segregation environment allow both straight women and lesbian come together to form a new group identity and relationship which they can experience equality and freedom that they hardly experience in mixed gender environment.

On 3/25/2023 at 8:58 PM, hold_on said:

hi! Do you have a large bladder?

I can't say to have a large bladder, but my younger sister do have a large bladder. she seldom go to public bathroom outside. she can pretty much hold for half day without going to bathroom while going out.

she just began her transition last year. it is not convenient for a transgender female to go to bathroom in public. she does not know if she should go to men's room or women's room, therefore, she just hold.

I am back, just ask me anything.

14 hours ago, Havelock said:

I wonder how aware young Chinese men are of women's pee habits? It's unclear to me if female pee in public frequently enough in China that their pee styles would be observable and known.  Public peeing seems to be the norm in youth but I'm unclear if there is public peeing when people go out partying or have events like you would see in Spain or other parts of the EU. 

In suburban or rural areas in China, people don't have toilet inside their houses. if they go to public toilet, they might need to walk miles away. most people just choose to pee in shower room or kitchen drain for their convenience. Many kitchens do not even have door. therefore, when one family member is peeing, other family members may be free to go inside the kitchen. it is common for family members of opposite sex seeing each other peeing in those areas. but in big cities, every new apartment have toilet inside, therefore, such thing will not happen. it is common for little girls to pee outside in public places such as playground, park or in street. bathrooms in kindergarten are non gender segregated. they are mixed gender with open toilets with no door. after they get into elementary school, they begin to go to gender segregated bathroom. toilets in elementary schools are long trough open toilet and gender segregated. students can only see people of same sex peeing inside the bathroom of elementary schools. at that stage, when girls and boy use separate bathroom, they will not see the urination position of opposite sex. they will begin develop their gender identity. girls will no longer see anyone stand to pee inside the bathroom. they see everyone squat. this environment allow girls to imitate each other and reinforce the sense of gender identity which prepare themselves for womanhood in future. some girls may still pee outside in public during elementary school years, but after the girls get into middle school, they will no longer pee in front of people of opposite sex.the peeing environment that female middle school students choose are more like the choice of adult women than little girls. they will at least pee in ladies room that have open squat toilet which can only be seen by the people of same sex,and will not be seen by men. mixed gender urination is common among children, but it is almost unheard among high school students or adults. I don't think there are any party or event that people who are unrelated to each other  can pee together or see each other pee like Europe. Chinese people are not open about mixed gender urination as people in Europe. when adults who are unrelated to each other who peeing with each other in any large events, it is almost always strictly gender segregated. I once heard my aunt talking about her pee story when she travel to Jiuzhai Valley by bus when she was in China. during the pee break, the bus was stop in rural area where they can't find bathroom. the guide asked men to go left side of the bus and women go to the right side. women and girls separated from their boyfriend , husband, father, son or other male family members, and join those female strangers of different ages(from little girls to female senior citizen) different sizes and different races squat side by side and pee together at the same time.  my aunt felt shocking and embarrassing at first, but she had no other choice but squat down and join those women to pee together.they had hold their pee for half day. the strong stream come out like waterfall come out from the top of mountain. while peeing, they can talk to each other and complain about their husband or other male family members without fear of being heard by the men, which the women can relax bodily and mentally at the same time. although they were separated from their  husbands or male family members, they form a new female community which women from all ages and all races are equally welcome to join.

7 hours ago, Havelock said:

 

 Thank you for sharing this fascinating Chinese cultural phenomenon.  It's interesting that the bias to women squatting is so prevalent that multiple skits would be made about it. I wonder how aware young Chinese men are of women's pee habits?

yes, that is very interesting. I wonder if this is just a joke or Chinese men really looking for mates based on women's peeing postures. Do Chinese men pay enough attention to female urination position which become a criteria for them to find mates or just an exaggeration? if that is real, what is the real purpose of that? it is hard to make sense for men to pay much attention to the peeing position of their spouses in public bathroom if they never have chance to see it personally in a gender segregation bathroom environment.

On 1/31/2023 at 7:02 PM, Dr.P said:

I think that Western men's views may be different. When using presumably clean Western toilets at home, women can sit down, be comfortable, neat, clean, very modest, and private, when seen by other women, or even by men. When using public facilities, some of these women may hover, to avoid contact with perceived filth, but sacrifice some privacy and neatness, if they tend to spray, when hovering.They may be more accustomed to the increased visibility and messiness associated with their hovering pee styles, and take it in stride. So Western men may perceive them as more comfortable with nudity and messiness, or more slutty.

do western men consider long trough squat toilets in Chinese ladies rooms to be toilets for sluts? although the women who squat to pee inside the bathroom are not visible to men in gender segregation environment, the women are highly visible to each other inside the bathroom since they have no door, and only have partitions that are several feet tall. how would western men think if their wife or daughters go to squat to pee in Chinese bathroom with long through open squat toilets when the couples or family travel to China? do they think women who choose long through squat toilets are more slutty than women who choose western toilet stalls?

Just now, Dr.P said:

Good question. I have no ideas or observations. ........If I may express some guesses about policewomen, I would think that they may occasionally find themselves in awkward situations, where they are outdoors, or in stationary vehicles, and/or in the company of male officers, and need to find imaginative ways to pee, squatting, standing, or sitting, with or without toilets or urinals. Their uniform clothing, pants, skirts, etc., may have a major influence, of course. I wish that some of the cop shows, on TV, would embrace these potential situations!

I found a picture of a Japanese policewoman peeing in a Japanese website:

https://duga.jp/ppv/piss-1215/

21 hours ago, Dr.P said:

Watching a woman hover and spray when she pees, can be a very sexy, arousing experience..............Women who hover, habitually, are usually those who use public toilets very often, almost exclusively, like single, career women, actresses, waitresses, and secretaries, rather than women who spend most of their days at home. They may be more accustomed to the increased visibility and messiness associated with their hovering pee styles, and take it in stride.

do those groups that pee in hovering position habitually include policewomen?

I have read a lot of webpages and saw a lot of movie scenes about women in different cultures, ages,personality, marriage and relationship status, with their same sex friends, with heterosexual male partners,peeing in different postures and styles,in various of public places, including shopping malls, movie theaters,schools and women prison (Puyallup jail which I mentioned in my another post), but none of them mention policewomen. I am curious how policewomen pee in public bathroom and do they pee significant differently from other women.

On 10/15/2022 at 7:15 PM, Dr.P said:

On 10/15/2022 at 11:37 AM, Havelock said:

Do you think your wife is more open squatting to pee / peeing outside because she is from China?

she has been conditioned to use indoor, Western style facilities, over a lifetime. She has a profound dislike of dirty indoor facilities, and has had bad dreams about them, on many occasions.

I found a funny story on Chinese internet that there was a Chinese man went on a blind date with a woman. when they talk to each other for the first time, they could get along,but the man didn’t expect the woman to say that it was inconvenient for her to pee while squatting.  the man drove the woman away as soon as she said that it was inconvenient for her to squat to pee. it mean that Chinese men prefer women who squat to pee over those who sit. I am not sure if this story is real or not. there are many video skits on the internet that reenact different versions of this story.

https://www.360kuai.com/pc/93b6870326b539abf?sign=360_c9d79732&tag_kuaizixun=自制

https://tv.sohu.com/v/dXMvMTczNjg3OTc5Lzg4MzEwMDQ0LnNodG1s.html

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1s441167rX/?vd_source=626323ad32e644d8224020804e335069

https://www.sohu.com/a/337798929_120282583

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV164411r7MG/?vd_source=626323ad32e644d8224020804e335069

https://ishare.ifeng.com/c/s/7pYZaXH1U8w

another webpage below is a thread in a Taiwanese forum written by a Taiwanese woman.her boyfriend wanted to break up with her just because she could not hover to pee.

it was during the pandemic, her boyfriend feel that if she go to public bathroom without squat toilet, she should learn to pee in semi squat position on western toilet. although she tried that before, it sprayed everywhere and make mess the toilet seat.

https://www.dcard.tw/f/relationship/p/235625379

I saw a Chinese webpage use a disrespectful term 肉便器 (slut) to refer to Chinese women who have habit of  sitting down to pee in public bathroom. those Chinese men seem to believe that women who sitting down on public toilet while peeing  symbolize promiscuity and sexual infidelity. hovering while peeing in public toilet symbolize sexual purity and fidelity.it consider the habit of sitting down to pee on dirty toilet seat in public bathroom is akin to promiscuity,because too many women have sat on the western toilets. just like women who have sex with many men, who already have sex with many women, are likely to be infect with sexual transmitted disease,women who have habit to sit down to pee in public bathroom that many women have sat on will likely to infected with disease.  those men seem to believe that women who are faithful to her husband should only sit on the toilet while peeing at home, and they should hover to pee in public toilet, or hold their pee until they arrive home.women who don't want to hold their bladder, don't want to hover, feel that sitting on public toilet is more convenient to relieve,willing to sit down on dirty toilet seats to relieve their bladder, are like those who don't want to control their sexual desire, and willing to have sex with any men to relieve their sexual drive. women who have sat on many different toilets in public places (like movie theaters, shopping mall, restaurant and such)  are considered likely to relief their sexual drives in the same way that they relief their bladder, with the men whoever they met without fear of sexual transmit disease, just like relief their bladder on public toilet where ever they went without fear of transmit disease. women who sit down to pee only if they were at home, while hover to pee in public, are consider to be more faithful to their husband.

I feel it is very interesting if Chinese men do pay attention to the peeing posture that their wife use in public bathroom because they will probably  never been able to see it personally in a gender segregation bathroom environment. it will be even more interesting if those Chinese women really pee in a position that their husband expect them to do, since they never need to worry about being seen by their husband inside ladies room.