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Posted (edited)

Hi fellow peefans

Thought I would start a topic about one of my favourite movies of the late 90's (showing my age a little now lol)

That movie being The Matrix

Not only is it a rip roaring rollercoaster of an action Sci Fi movie with, for its time, truly groundbreaking special effects and cinematography (bullet-time etc) It also is an amazing thought provoking film covering such themes as human existence, consciousness, and what is the true value and substance of existence etc.

One of the main themes which I like and is explored is What is the nature of reality?  Is it something that according to our human senses seems to be tangible and real but on another level is not solid or rigid at all. (those who have read many books on Quantum Physics will feel at home here)

One of my favourite scenes in the movie is when Neo meets Morpheus for the first time and has a discussion about "what is real" etc it is a great scene. Then followed by the truly iconic scene of Neo being asked to chose which pill to take Red or Blue.

Blue sends him back to his regular life and ignorance or Red takes him on a journey to deeper truths

A marvellous scene

Hope you enjoyed reading my thoughts on this great movie and let me know if you too are a fan of the film and have pondered the questions it raises

And most important of all would you, given the same choice take the RED or the BLUE pill?

 

I know what my answer is and I have already taken it a long time ago with vast gulps of water Hehe!!

 

p.s. Big thanks to fellow peefan the intelligent and gorgeous spywareonya for inspiring me to create this thread x  

Edited by cheekyfe11a
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45 minutes ago, cheekyfe11a said:

given the same choice take the RED or the BLUE pill?

I chose Red since child

the sincere reason was somehow gullibly from the POV of a pessimist, but in the end I turned up being right: my original push was the will to demonstrate that Reality is ultimately friendly toward living being, though not necessarily friendly toward the character we daily portray as

The Wachosky brothers (now Wachosky Sisters since both chosed to undergo chirurgy becoming females) were deeply into Hinduism, who actually states that Reality, being just a mix of sensation interpreted by the brain, lack actual existence on the philosophical stance, and they took this concept to its extreme adfirming that the world we think we live in is just an hallucination built by machines

yes, you who read and think that you got a name and a personal history, are indeed living in a permanent coma in a shell among millions of Others, and you just DREAM of being yourself, while intelligent machines not that far from Terminators sucks your calories while you strive among [what you think is] your existence

Though I have explored Hinduism enough to understand that this is just a philosophical stance to detach from exceeding attachment to happenings (Asians are very passionated folk and in fact all of Asians Philosophies are somehow doubtful toward taking existence too seriously, to Balance that), the movie itself is great because it teases about a lot of stuff that can also be found in Occcultism, and is very, very deep

was I to say everything I have to about this movie I would overhwelm the forum server, so I say "Over" for now and give speech back to @cheekyfe11a to answer me and continue this marvellous thread

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Posted (edited)

I certainly like the illusion of reality/free-will theme used in the plot.

Morpheus believes in "The One", who can save them from the machines and free everyone. It has been fed to Neo that he will fulfil the prophecy. 

Later in the second movie, Neo learns the truth. The machines needs a way to control the humans, they know the matrix isn't fallible for people 'waking up' from the matrix. So they devised a lie in the form of the prophecy. Every once in a they release a group of people from the matrix, they will tell them a prophecy of "The One" who will free humanity from the machines and let them settle in Zion. 

This makes the machines always one step ahead of humanity. And just like the matrix, the prophecy is another form of control.

Neo learns this before the attack on Zion. Neo learns he's not unique or special, the prophecy was a lie. There has been 7 other "The One" before Neo, and every instance the machines has destroyed Zion 7 times already before Neo, and this time they will destroy it.

Once the machines has destroyed Zion, they will release another group of people and tell them of a prophecy.

The usage of this theme within the plot is amazing. You learn the world is a lie, dared to swallow the red pill and immerse yourself with the reality. But how do we know we made it. Is this reality made of other lies and fell into another form of control just like "The One" and Zion's fate? 

Matrix is such a good movie, the action scene was great with an amazing plot(and original screenplay)

Edited by Flapnjack
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59 minutes ago, spywareonya said:

I chose Red since child

the sincere reason was somehow gullibly from the POV of a pessimist, but in the end I turned up being right: my original push was the will to demonstrate that Reality is ultimately friendly toward living being, though not necessarily friendly toward the character we daily portray as

The Wachosky brothers (now Wachosky Sisters since both chosed to undergo chirurgy becoming females) were deeply into Hinduism, who actually states that Reality, being just a mix of sensation interpreted by the brain, lack actual existence on the philosophical stance, and they took this concept to its extreme adfirming that the world we think we live in is just an hallucination built by machines

yes, you who read and think that you got a name and a personal history, are indeed living in a permanent coma in a shell among millions of Others, and you just DREAM of being yourself, while intelligent machines not that far from Terminators sucks your calories while you strive among [what you think is] your existence

Though I have explored Hinduism enough to understand that this is just a philosophical stance to detach from exceeding attachment to happenings (Asians are very passionated folk and in fact all of Asians Philosophies are somehow doubtful toward taking existence too seriously, to Balance that), the movie itself is great because it teases about a lot of stuff that can also be found in Occcultism, and is very, very deep

was I to say everything I have to about this movie I would overhwelm the forum server, so I say "Over" for now and give speech back to @cheekyfe11a to answer me and continue this marvellous thread

So glad you chose the RED pill

Yes the themes put forward in The Matrix movie are very profound indeed

From my mid to late teens I became very interested in reading about eastern spiritual philosophy and practices and was drawn to such areas as Buddhism etc. I read extensive works on Zen, Taoism and Tibetan tantra and I also liked to read The Bardo Thodol (Tibetan Book of the Dead) many times

And as you suggest,  I also realised that the eastern mystics and masters did and do not put much emphasis on any absolute concrete nature of what we think is real and it is more or less an illusion clouded by our ignorance and the result of previous actions through countless incarnations etc. I found this notion to have an overwhelming sense of truth and it really struck a chord somewhere deep inside me.

Then later when the Matrix came out it was as though it was written in this same language and I immediately resonated with the main themes of the movie. It did not confuse me at all.

As you say to fully go into all the depths of what is put forward in this movie would take a whole forum in itself dedicated to it Hehe!

 

What a brilliant movie it is I always have to watch it regularly to get my fix  

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20 minutes ago, Flapnjack said:

I certainly like the illusion of reality/free-will theme used in the plot.

Morpheus believes in "The One", who can save them from the machines and free everyone. It has been fed to Neo that he will fulfil the prophecy. 

Later in the second movie, Neo learns the truth. The machines needs a way to control the humans, they know the matrix isn't fallible for people 'waking up' from the matrix. So they devised a lie in the form of the prophecy. Every once in a they release a group of people from the matrix, they will tell them a prophecy of "The One" who will free humanity from the machines and let them settle in Zion. 

This makes the machines always one step ahead of humanity. And just like the matrix, the prophecy is another form of control.

Neo learns this before the attack on Zion. Neo learns he's not unique or special, the prophecy was a lie. There has been 7 other "The One", and every instance the machines has destroyed Zion 7 times already.

Once the machines has destroyed Zion, they will release another group of people and tell them of a prophecy.

The usage of this theme within the plot is amazing. You learn the world is a lie, dared to swallow the red pill and immerse yourself with the reality. But how do we know we made it. Is this reality made of other lies and fell into another form of control just like "The One" and "Neo". 

Matrix is such a good movie, the action scene was great with an amazing plot(and original screenplay)

Thank you Flapnjack always good to hear from another fan of The Matrix

The themes of illusion and the nature of reality running throughout the movie are the true backbone of it and always get me thinking along such similar lines.

Although I would say that the first movie is the best of the three by far I do enjoy the other two and they do serve to add some closure to the overall story. 

But as you say is it over. if the machines have destroyed Zion 7 times it hints at multi layers to the mystery.

Maybe the rabbit hole goes much deeper than even Morpheus could comprehend 

 

It is such a great movie   

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10 hours ago, cheekyfe11a said:

Bardo Thodol

One of the most heart-touching reading of all my life

Do you remember it enough to fully understand was I to tell you things about its contents?

 

10 hours ago, cheekyfe11a said:

Although I would say that the first movie is the best of the three by far I do enjoy the other two and they do serve to add some closure to the overall story

to be utterly sincere, my favourite one was the third

because of a deep meaning implied into the detaching of Smith from the Matrix and his transformation in a cancer

it draws from deep symbolism of the occult

and the concept of many Zions before this one (implying story is taking place in 3500 a.D. to say the least) also hints of the legends about Atlantis, and the myths of many many peoples that got stories about previous civilization disappeared through the mists of time

a good teasing about that can also be found in the very, very beginning of the recent movie Noah, where the prophet and his family, before starting to build the Ark, are seen walking amidst the ruins of what looks so much like a post-apocalypse world, with remnants of high-level technology scattered all over, silently implying that before the Great Deluge the world already attained futuristic-level evolution

(even the videogame Halo possesses a plot about Humanity ruling Galaxy in 200 000 b.C. and then being swept away back to Stone Age by a Cosmical War, also hinting at the Fall of the Rebellious Angels since Humans were the bad guys in this war)

 

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5 hours ago, fannywatcher said:

went right over my head unfortunately.

Not to worry I think it passed a few people by this movie 😃

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11 hours ago, Flapnjack said:

The usage of this theme within the plot is amazing. You learn the world is a lie, dared to swallow the red pill and immerse yourself with the reality. But how do we know we made it. Is this reality made of other lies and fell into another form of control just like "The One" and Zion's fate? 

it is a Hindu trick

in Hinduism the thinking is not two-some opposition, is triangular

there are three Gunas, which means "Inclination", Sattva is high-thinking but also taking oneself too seriously (arrogant genius), Rajas means passion and honour but also primitivity (the honourable barbarian), Tamas means sincerity with one's depths but also vices (the rapist)

 

The official teaching of Hinduism is to reject Tamas and master Rajas, fully embracing Sattva

But its occult teaching is to psycho-analize and master all the three so that your Tamas (dark spontaneity) becomes honourable and able to be reasoned with

this is why the official teachings of Hinduism are so similar to the base forms of Buddhism, so to say abstinence from anything that can be too passionate or hormonal

unless, Tibetan Buddhism, which comes from the Occult side of Hinduism, presents much different and darker techniques, nonetheless intended to produce and enlightened being, yet much less light and shallow

 

if you refuse a lie and side with its opposite, you'll end up siding with a lie nonetheless

only through transcending the limits peace can be achieved

like when after cycle and cycle and cycle Smith gain Independence (it seemes it happens by chance but how many of his kind had been destroyed by Neo, why only him does come back? ask this to yourself) revealing himself to be the true enemy, and Peace is signed between humans and machines in order to defeat him

the One was indeed a saviour, yet not that quickly

this is a trick about Sattva: The Architect is a Sattvic entity, all thought, perfection and arrogance, and in the occult myths of Hinduism, Sattvic creatures (The Devas) are the wardens of many mysteries and prophecies they use to manipulate the lesser beings, claiming it is for their own good, and they are even sincere on their original stance

yet, the Creator tricked them to test their ability to transcend their original form and become complete, so He did not revealed them the true meaning of the prophecies He entrusted them with

so they think they can manipulate these prophecies to deceive lesser beings, but meanwhile they are telling them a truth that in the end will turn tables

the One would have in the end freed humanity, the Supercomupter of the city of machines foreseen that, and tried to manipulate this truth by keeping men chained to a hope that kept them harmlessly in Zion like lambs ready for the blade

but ultimately the One really proved to free humans: after six cycles, Neo finds himself in the position to blackmail machines into better terms, because the true enemy revealed himself (and in the Greater schemes of things, he is an enemy to a set extent, since only its existence brings humans and machines together)

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7 minutes ago, spywareonya said:

One of the most heart-touching reading of all my life

Do you remember it enough to fully understand was I to tell you things about its contents?

 

to be utterly sincere, my favourite one was the third

because of a deep meaning implied into the detaching of Smith from the Matrix and his transformation in a cancer

it draws from deep symbolism of the occult

and the concept of many Zions before this one (implying story is taking place in 3500 a.D. to say the least) also hints of the legends about Atlantis, and the myths of many many peoples that got stories about previous civilization disappeared through the mists of time

a good teasing about that can also be found in the very, very beginning of the recent movie Noah, where the prophet and his family, before starting to build the Ark, are seen walking amidst the ruins of what looks so much like a post-apocalypse world, with remnants of high-level technology scattered all over, silently implying that before the Great Deluge the world already attained futuristic-level evolution

(even the videogame Halo possesses a plot about Humanity ruling Galaxy in 200 000 b.C. and then being swept away back to Stone Age by a Cosmical War, also hinting at the Fall of the Rebellious Angels since Humans were the bad guys in this war)

 

The Bardo Thodol was one of the most thought provoking and amazing books I ever read in my late teens and it served to form a lot of my early philosophical beliefs and feelings about the nature of existence itself. It is nothing short of an actual manual for the dead when the spirit is discorporated. Amazing book

I also read the Egyptian Book of the dead before I read the Tibetan and found it fascinating the Tibetan book however seemed to talk directly to me in a more palatable form I seemed to understand everything in it and it was not alien to me (as you can guess I was probably not considered a "normal" teenager by some peoples standards - whatever that means lol)

It is a while since I read the Tibetan Book of the dead but it is always with me (would love to discuss some of the themes in PM spy if you like sometime)

I also like the idea of a super advanced civilisation existing long before our human pre history which suffered some sort of cataclysm and certain people teachers etc escaped this disaster and settled in other regions and began teaching the local peoples in mathematics, astronomy and building monuments etc. It has been the theme of some films and video games as you rightly mentioned.

I have read a great book on such a hypothesis by Graham Hancock called Heavens Mirror many years ago which is a great read also.

   

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17 minutes ago, spywareonya said:

it is a Hindu trick

in Hinduism the thinking is not two-some opposition, is triangular

there are three Gunas, which means "Inclination", Sattva is high-thinking but also taking oneself too seriously (arrogant genius), Rajas means passion and honour but also primitivity (the honourable barbarian), Tamas means sincerity with one's depths but also vices (the rapist)

 

The official teaching of Hinduism is to reject Tamas and master Rajas, fully embracing Sattva

But its occult teaching is to psycho-analize and master all the three so that your Tamas (dark spontaneity) becomes honourable and able to be reasoned with

this is why the official teachings of Hinduism are so similar to the base forms of Buddhism, so to say abstinence from anything that can be too passionate or hormonal

unless, Tibetan Buddhism, which comes from the Occult side of Hinduism, presents much different and darker techniques, nonetheless intended to produce and enlightened being, yet much less light and shallow

 

if you refuse a lie and side with its opposite, you'll end up siding with a lie nonetheless

only through transcending the limits peace can be achieved

like when after cycle and cycle and cycle Smith gain Independence (it seemes it happens by chance but how many of his kind had been destroyed by Neo, why only him does come back? ask this to yourself) revealing himself to be the true enemy, and Peace is signed between humans and machines in order to defeat him

the One was indeed a saviour, yet not that quickly

this is a trick about Sattva: The Architect is a Sattvic entity, all thought, perfection and arrogance, and in the occult myths of Hinduism, Sattvic creatures (The Devas) are the wardens of many mysteries and prophecies they use to manipulate the lesser beings, claiming it is for their own good, and they are even sincere on their original stance

yet, the Creator tricked them to test their ability to transcend their original form and become complete, so He did not revealed them the true meaning of the prophecies He entrusted them with

so they think they can manipulate these prophecies to deceive lesser beings, but meanwhile they are telling them a truth that in the end will turn tables

the One would have in the end freed humanity, the Supercomupter of the city of machines foreseen that, and tried to manipulate this truth by keeping men chained to a hope that kept them harmlessly in Zion like lambs ready for the blade

but ultimately the One really proved to free humans: after six cycles, Neo finds himself in the position to blackmail machines into better terms, because the true enemy revealed himself (and in the Greater schemes of things, he is an enemy to a set extent, since only its existence brings humans and machines together)

Excellent post Spy

Your knowledge on eastern mystical traditions is very deep indeed 

 

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8 minutes ago, cheekyfe11a said:

I have read a great book on such a hypothesis by Graham Hancock called Heavens Mirror many years ago which is a great read also.

Footprints of the Gods is also cute

8 minutes ago, cheekyfe11a said:

would love to discuss some of the themes in PM spy if you like sometime

I have threads about the occult on this very forum

we'll meet there when you complete my main thread

I have so much to say to you...

4 minutes ago, cheekyfe11a said:

Your knowledge on eastern mystical traditions is very deep indeed 

I am a Witch, my main current comes from India though it is not limited there at all

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, spywareonya said:

Footprints of the Gods is also cute

I have threads about the occult on this very forum

we'll meet there when you complete my main thread

I have so much to say to you...

I am a Witch, my main current comes from India though it is not limited there at all

Yeah Footprints Of The Gods is great too 

Yesterday I did have a read of some of your occult postings which I find fascinating. Although there is quite a lot to get through and being a busy artist that tends to take all of my time these days 🙂 but it is the only love of my life really.

Last night I read through your posting on the Equinox Ritual which I found interesting and I read through your other topic where you explain who the Gods Are their various natures etc. Very informative I thought.

And I agree I too have studied and read many other traditions other than Eastern religion I have a great interest in the practices and rituals of my pagan ancestors of Western Europe, cause I am a member of the same tribe and therefore the myths and stories of these ancient peoples talks to something very deep inside of me and it's at the heart of my DNA.

Whether I would want to engage in full ritual ceremonies with very strict guidelines to hopefully invoke ancient forces for guidance, knowledge wisdom etc  I don't think I would want to delve too deep into that side of it. I don't think that is for me really I will stick to my old daily 9 point death meditation which I have been doing for some years now which was good enough for the Samurai who were really tough sons of bitches lol  - "the way of the Samurai is found on Death"  The Hagakure - The book of the Samurai 

Great chatting to you again spy  x

 

Edited by cheekyfe11a
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2 minutes ago, cheekyfe11a said:

Yeah Footprints Of The Gods is great too 

Yesterday I did have a read of some of your occult postings which I find fascinating. Although there is quite a lot to get through and being a busy artist that tends to take all of my time these days 🙂 but it is the only love of my life really.

Last night I read through your posting on the Equinox Ritual which I found interesting and I read through your other topic where you explain who the Gods Are their various natures etc. Very informative I thought.

And I agree I too have studied and read many other traditions other than Eastern religion I have a great interest in the practices and rituals of my pagan ancestors of Western Europe, cause I am a member of the same tribe and therefore the myths and stories of these ancient peoples talks to something very deep inside of me and it at the heart of my DNA.

Whether I would want to engage in full ritual ceremonies etc with very strict guidelines etc to hopefully invoke ancient forces for guidance, knowledge wisdom etc  I don't think I would want to delve too deep into that side of it. I don't think that is for me really I will stick to my old daily 9 point death meditation which I have been doing for some years now which was good enough for the Samurai who were really tough sons of bitches lol  - "the way of the Samurai is found on Death"  The Hagakure - The book of the Samurai 

Great chatting to you again spy  x

 

ouh, you already found them ahahahahaha

they were those I wanted topoint youtoward, well I think it's not necessary anymore ahahaha

if you really found them, I would really love to tell you this:

the Entities I serve are EXACTLY those described in the Thodol Bardo

the non-human Buddhas, that can manifest in both peaceful and wrathful forms, are indeed The Gods, or avatars of Them

now you know ahahah

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Posted (edited)

Yes, The Matrix is a true masterpiece that to this day has elements being imitated. Maybe someone has already mentioned here but something most people don't know is that the Wachowski's were also inspired by Ghost in the Shell, as it had the machinery and bullet time concepts long before the Matrix. 

But yes the themes that it explores are heavy and require you to think deeply to grasp the full depth of the movie. My favorite scene is when Morpheus and Neo are walking down the busy street and he's explaining the agents and how some people are so dependent on the Matrix. When everything was frozen and he said, "I've seen agents punch through concrete walls. Men have emptied entire clips at them and hit nothing but air..." Just hearing how serious he said that let me know I was watching an awesome movie because I knew Neo, who was a total bum at that point, would have to defeat such enemies.

The red pill concept has taken on a whole life of it's own in modern society and the term now refers to people who look deeper into everyday common occurrences. I've been red pill since childhood, just didn't have a term for it. Back then, I couldn't understand why people didn't see what I thought was obvious and it made me feel like I was dumb for being the only kid thinking that way. The Matrix made me better understand that old saying that ''ignorance is bliss.''

I had a professor once tell me that the more you know, the less you want to know. He was red pill as fuck. He often mentioned things that angered my young snowflake generation for not being politically correct and they tried miserably to argue against him. When I would research what he was saying, it was always true. 

I've tried explaining things to some blue pill friends on occasion and it is depressing how resistant they are. I don't bother anymore. So I'm more black pill at this point, a less common term that defines someone who realizes that most people cannot and will not be red pilled. Trying to educate others in such a way that requires their world view to crumble is like ice-skating uphill carrying a dead body.

Edited by Brutus
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9 hours ago, spywareonya said:

ouh, you already found them ahahahahaha

they were those I wanted topoint youtoward, well I think it's not necessary anymore ahahaha

if you really found them, I would really love to tell you this:

the Entities I serve are EXACTLY those described in the Thodol Bardo

the non-human Buddhas, that can manifest in both peaceful and wrathful forms, are indeed The Gods, or avatars of Them

now you know ahahah

It is amazing that it is these bardo entities that feature in your practices 

and in your writings about the gods how they both exhibit a peaceful and wrathful form like two sides of the same coin and when the deceased witnesses the wrathful forms they can be very afraid and it is stressed in the texts at this time that they should try to understand that these are the peaceful entities displaying there wrathful nature.

It is amazing I think I will probably start to read the book again sometime soon 🙂

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Brutus said:

Yes, The Matrix is a true masterpiece that to this day has elements being imitated. Maybe someone has already mentioned here but something most people don't know is that the Wachowski's were also inspired by Ghost in the Shell, as it had the machinery and bullet time concepts long before the Matrix. 

But yes the themes that it explores are heavy and require you to think deeply to grasp the full depth of the movie. My favorite scene is when Morpheus and Neo are walking down the busy street and he's explaining the agents and how some people are so dependent on the Matrix. When everything was frozen and he said, "I've seen agents punch through concrete walls. Men have emptied entire clips at them and hit nothing but air..." Just hearing how serious he said that let me know I was watching an awesome movie because I knew Neo, who was a total bum at that point, would have to defeat such enemies.

The red pill concept has taken on a whole life of it's own in modern society and the term now refers to people who look deeper into everyday common occurrences. I've been red pill since childhood, just didn't have a term for it. Back then, I couldn't understand why people didn't see what I thought was obvious and it made me feel like I was dumb for being the only kid thinking that way. The Matrix made me better understand that old saying that ''ignorance is bliss.''

I had a professor once tell me that the more you know, the less you want to know. He was red pill as fuck. He often mentioned things that angered my young snowflake generation for not being politically correct and they tried miserably to argue against him. When I would research what he was saying, it was always true. 

I've tried explaining things to some blue pill friends on occasion and it is depressing how resistant they are. I don't bother anymore. So I'm more black pill at this point, a less common term that defines someone who realizes that most people cannot and will not be red pilled. Trying to educate others in such a way that requires their world view to crumble is like ice-skating uphill carrying a dead body.

Thank you Brutus 

Glad you are also a fan of the movie. I had heard about Ghost in the Shell now you mention it and how it had dealt with a lot of similar themes before the Matrix.

It sounds like we have had similar experiences growing up with the Blue pill lot and I am in full agreement that trying to talk to some of these people is an almost impossible task. Like you say ice-skating up hill with a dead body or it is like trying to knit fog lol.

Cheers 

 

Edited by cheekyfe11a
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13 hours ago, cheekyfe11a said:

It is amazing that it is these bardo entities that feature in your practices 

The Gods are the entities of all human Pantheons

for example They are also the Gods of Vikings, or the Tuatha DeDanaan of the Celts

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A Hi Definition(4K) of the original was released today in Au @ $25

Maybe your regions will have it too.

 

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7 hours ago, Scot_Lover said:

A Hi Definition(4K) of the original was released today in Au @ $25

Maybe your regions will have it too.

 

fascinating

some movies really could help better resolution

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