Lessons in magick #2 The Gods

[Scot_Lover 1,877]

Ok, this is all good so far. 

The sticking point is the ancestors of this country, the Austalian Aborigine. They have 40,000 years of history here, some 500 odd tribes of two distinct groups, people who lived inland, and people who lived on the coastline. All of them have one thing in common, The Dreamtime. Only the name is common though, every tribes interpretation is different, rivers in Western Australia were made by a giant snake, the cliffs and valleys of Kakadu National Park were made by a crocodile that was on fire. There are even legends on how kangaroos, koalas and kookaburras came to be. There is no reference to a 'God' as such, eternity is real life, the life one person leads is just a gap, then you return to eternity again. 

This is something I copied: 

The experience of Dreamtime, whether through ritual or from dreams, flowed through into the life in time in practical ways. The individual who enters the Dreamtime feels no separation between themselves and their ancestors. The strengths and resources of the timeless enter into what is needed in the life of the present. The future is less uncertain because the individual feels their life as a continuum linking past and future in unbroken connection. Through Dreamtime the limiatations of time and space are overcome. It is a much observed feature of aboriginal life that knowledge of distant relatives and their condition is frequently displayed. Therefore if a relative is ill, a distant family member knows this and hurries to them. Often the intuitive knowledge of herbal medicine is gained also.

Another thing, members of the tribe never separated their daily activities, eating, sleeping, sex or working, everything was all-at-once, not one-thing-after-another. This made each member a valued contributor to the life of the tribe. If, after some major discretion, a member was banished from the tribe, that person went away to die. 

Can this time period fit in anywhere with what you are saying?

Is Australia the only continent that didn't have some kind of cultural interaction with the rest of the world?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[spywareonya 37,962]

3 minutes ago, Scot_Lover said:

Ok, this is all good so far. 

The sticking point is the ancestors of this country, the Austalian Aborigine. They have 40,000 years of history here, some 500 odd tribes of two distinct groups, people who lived inland, and people who lived on the coastline. All of them have one thing in common, The Dreamtime. Only the name is common though, every tribes interpretation is different, rivers in Western Australia were made by a giant snake, the cliffs and valleys of Kakadu National Park were made by a crocodile that was on fire. There are even legends on how kangaroos, koalas and kookaburras came to be. There is no reference to a 'God' as such, eternity is real life, the life one person leads is just a gap, then you return to eternity again. 

This is something I copied: 

The experience of Dreamtime, whether through ritual or from dreams, flowed through into the life in time in practical ways. The individual who enters the Dreamtime feels no separation between themselves and their ancestors. The strengths and resources of the timeless enter into what is needed in the life of the present. The future is less uncertain because the individual feels their life as a continuum linking past and future in unbroken connection. Through Dreamtime the limiatations of time and space are overcome. It is a much observed feature of aboriginal life that knowledge of distant relatives and their condition is frequently displayed. Therefore if a relative is ill, a distant family member knows this and hurries to them. Often the intuitive knowledge of herbal medicine is gained also.

Another thing, members of the tribe never separated their daily activities, eating, sleeping, sex or working, everything was all-at-once, not one-thing-after-another. This made each member a valued contributor to the life of the tribe. If, after some major discretion, a member was banished from the tribe, that person went away to die. 

Can this time period fit in anywhere with what you are saying?

Is Australia the only continent that didn't have some kind of cultural interaction with the rest of the world?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I knew of the Dream Time

but it delves into exceedingly deep mysteries

Scot, you know I adore you but believe my words if I tell you that this shit is really serious

for you maybe fascinating, for me, it could be like for a Christian talking about a theorical time when God wasn't born yet

The Australian Aborigen were genetically isolated, but their culture comes down anyway from the original Indonesian stemming of the Dravides (India), but in a time of which anthropologist are just making discoveries now

obviously there was for sure some original indigenous tradition, yet the Dreamtime is NOT related to it, it was shared among all the world in those times but it survived only in Australia while elsewhere was forgotten

The Sumerian had something similar, Aztecs and Egyptians too

 

The Dream Time refers to a time when the Gods were just born

it was a time when the Collective Unconscious was still virgin and undispoiled by human activities, because so few men were alive, that the gods could control their emotional state and make sure they feel ok, like in a never-ending trance where nothing was detached from anything else, like a living DREAM

it was what Christians consider Earth before the Fall of Adam

in those time, our eyes could see spirits like you see the girls in your house, and talk to them like it was the most normal thing of the world

we Witches usually do not talk about this

it's our Paradise Lost

 

[steve25805 126,109]

I have often believed that the so-called supernatural and that which is scoffed at as irrational by ultra rationalists, in regards to such things as spirit realms and entities, reincarnation, psychic abilities, etc, will one day come to be embraced and understood by science. And that these things are inherently natural. We simply as yet lack a strong enough basis for scientific understanding of them. There was once a time after all when we thought thunder and lightning was inherently supernatural, yet today we totally understand it scientifically. At one time we had no idea what the Sun was so we worshipped it as a supernatural entity. Now we pretty much understand what it is and broadly how it works scientifically. One day science will extend it's understanding into the spirit realm and other dimensions, I have long believed. The separation between science and spiritual belief is artificial and exists only because as yet science does not know enough about certain areas. As scientific knowledge grows so all fake religious add ons will be eroded. Already, many false assumptions of organised religions have been fatally undermined by science. Scientific advance will sort the wheat from the chaff when it comes to spiritual realities on the one hand, and bullshit religious assumptions on the other. 

It seems that in the beginning - perhaps about 10,000 years ago you say? - when we first became aware of the gods we understood them in a pure sense which through science we will gradually return to. But in the meantime much has been corrupted through additional religious add ons. How did this happen? Power hungry individuals mixing up false messages for their own reasons of control? Such people have exploited religion for such ends for as long as religion has existed. Perhaps also because only a few people have ever been in close enough communication with gods and spirits, and the communications sometimes take the form of dreams or such which can be misinterpreted? These are just musings on my part, but it has long seemed to me that organised religions are at one and the same time attempts to explain spiritual reality yet also a highly corrupted understanding of it which becomes dogmatically fossilised, and indeed hostile to independent thought or spiritual investigation, seeing that as heresy. But it has always seemed likely to me that the true path of spiritual enlightenment lies in following our own hearts and minds, thinking things through for ourselves, taking full account of scientific reality, yet also feeling that there is something more, beyond what we already know. Religion tries to force us to believe some dogma laid down by others without thinking it through for ourselves or subjecting it to genuine scrutiny. That is NOT the path to true understanding, it seems to me. Science is advancing and forcing religions into retreat because they are incapable by their very natures of adapting to become closer to the truth themselves, precisely because they rest on fossilised ancient dogma and see any deviation from that as heresy.

The original culture you suggest which spread everywhere was later adapted by the Aryans - Indoeuropeans - to become more warlike, presumably predisposing them to military conquest? And yet, I believe - though you have not described them in detail yet - you accept that there are gods of war, similar to Thor or Mars? Might these early Indoeuropeans  have developed a closer understanding of such gods as actual entities in such specific areas? Or was their adaptation of the original understandings the beginnings of religious corruption?

Another question. Why was animal - and even human - sacrifice considered desirable as offerings to the gods? And why would gods in any case want humans killing other humans purely as offerings to them? Animal sacrifice was common throughout the ancient middle east, and indeed in the Old Testament precursor to Christianity, it often pops up. And the Aztec culture in America in particular was notorious for the scale of it's human sacrifices. The Aztec empire often waged war on neighbours purely for the purposes of capturing hundreds for human sacrifices, notable for their barbarity, typically involving cutting the still beating hearts out of living victims at religious sites and temples. Surely, the gods could have gained nothing from this? Is this just another example of mankind's religious corruption of an original message? After all, those who called themselves Christians used to go around burning and hanging heretics and supposed witches. It does seem to me that when spiritual truth gets corrupted by power hungry people, man's innate violence and cruelty to fellow humans seems to become excused, encouraged and endorsed. So much so that burning a woman alive or cutting the beating heart out of a living prisoner, become assumed to be sacred duties. But of course in reality there is nothing enlightened about it, I am sure. There can in my mind be nothing sacred about wanton cruelty and sadism. Indeed, I suspect that such cruelties triggered feelings of sadistic pleasure in the minds of many which is wholly base but which was misinterpreted as spiritual or godly. People got off on it but convinced themselves - and probably genuinely believed - that this was because they imagined it to be a sacred and good thing in the eyes of gods. Sacred license to indulge in murderous sadistic pleasure, even if only as a voyeur in most cases, and feel morally good about it. Guilt free and self-righteous cruelty. When in reality the pleasure they gained was purely personal and base, and not sacred at all. Just another religious corruption?

[Scot_Lover 1,877]

5 hours ago, spywareonya said:

I knew of the Dream Time

but it delves into exceedingly deep mysteries

Scot, you know I adore you but believe my words if I tell you that this shit is really serious

for you maybe fascinating, for me, it could be like for a Christian talking about a theorical time when God wasn't born yet

The Australian Aborigen were genetically isolated, but their culture comes down anyway from the original Indonesian stemming of the Dravides (India), but in a time of which anthropologist are just making discoveries now

obviously there was for sure some original indigenous tradition, yet the Dreamtime is NOT related to it, it was shared among all the world in those times but it survived only in Australia while elsewhere was forgotten

The Sumerian had something similar, Aztecs and Egyptians too

 

The Dream Time refers to a time when the Gods were just born

it was a time when the Collective Unconscious was still virgin and undispoiled by human activities, because so few men were alive, that the gods could control their emotional state and make sure they feel ok, like in a never-ending trance where nothing was detached from anything else, like a living DREAM

it was what Christians consider Earth before the Fall of Adam

in those time, our eyes could see spirits like you see the girls in your house, and talk to them like it was the most normal thing of the world

we Witches usually do not talk about this

it's our Paradise Lost

 

Got it, I think, lol. So what I'm after is way after this time period.

This is great stuff, I've told you I've been banned, been called Satan and the devil for asking too many questions. I think people don't know what I'm asking and just ban me because they don't know themselves. 

 

[spywareonya 37,962]

7 hours ago, Scot_Lover said:

Got it, I think, lol. So what I'm after is way after this time period.

This is great stuff, I've told you I've been banned, been called Satan and the devil for asking too many questions. I think people don't know what I'm asking and just ban me because they don't know themselves. 

 

yes, all souls feel an uncalcolable hatred on the deep unconscious stance about the loss of that Time, and accordingly hate all those that pops up with questions about deep stuff, because anything enough intimate and ancient to stir up stuff from the unconscious that way, can also unvoluntarily de-censor our ancestral feelings of anxiety and loss

Indeed I felt bad when you asked about it, it can be perceived by my first sentences of my previous post if you read them carefully, it's not the standard serene, calm and all-confident Nancy

BUT

#1 I am less subdued by this unconscious hatred because I work on myself everyday about it, making room for civilized reactions instead of grudge

#2 I am more educated than the losers you hinted about that banned you, and also possess more knowledge so I can be in control of the discussion about it

#3 last but not least I feel an uncalculable cherishing toward you and your girls, even if embarassed or enraged I'd never attack you

 

the point with the Dream Time is that it will return, but on a far different guise

identical in spirit, different in shape

in a distant future, when the Gods will reclaim this world and rule us all, technology will wipe away all religions and suffering

we will have a microchip in our brain controlling our environment like we were gods ourselves

all ethnies will melt into one, one single Language, and no toil or labour, Death obviously but without illness or pain, and one only goal, conquering the Universe

we will be few since only few contemporarily alive will be needed by Human Race itself, in opposition to times when big numbers were mandatory, and we will still be humans like you and me, but living in a world where brute force is done by machines, and we control them, meditate and fuck, and circle-time brain-storm daily, like a council of Gods, about new Technologies, or new planets to Earthform/colonize

it will be a new DreamTime

italways is, for a reason or a (apparently) completely different one, when the Gods are in chief

to attain that world, all we need is destroying this one and its flaws

politic, religions more than anything, and human flaws, are our enemies

yet, while human flaws can be taken by hand and helped through love until they become their opposite, making the person to grow up and become more mature, Nations and more than anything Religions are a foe

that's why Witches are rumored to be Antichristian: Jesus knew the same stuff of all true Initiates, he was a male-witch, but modern Christianism has nothing to do with Him, and we hate it, and we will destroy it one day

Edited May 31, 2018 by spywareonya

[Scot_Lover 1,877]

Sorry to bring all this stress on you, I'll do some more reading.

[spywareonya 37,962]

1 hour ago, Scot_Lover said:

Sorry to bring all this stress on you, I'll do some more reading.

eh? No!

It was an honour, it just needed to be dealt with using a lot of care and respect

[spywareonya 37,962]

17 hours ago, steve25805 said:

One day science will extend it's understanding into the spirit realm and other dimensions

Exactly

17 hours ago, steve25805 said:

The separation between science and spiritual belief is artificial and exists only because as yet science does not know enough about certain areas

how I love this passage:

ARTIFICIAL

17 hours ago, steve25805 said:

As scientific knowledge grows so all fake religious add ons will be eroded. Already, many false assumptions of organised religions have been fatally undermined by science. Scientific advance will sort the wheat from the chaff when it comes to spiritual realities on the one hand, and bullshit religious assumptions on the other. 

Revelation of every single thing

in greek is spelled APOCALYPSE

17 hours ago, steve25805 said:

when we first became aware of the gods we understood them in a pure sense which through science we will gradually return to

exactly

is the Tree of Knowledge, the Snake entrusted us with a knowledge that must be used to pass from being children of God to be actual SOLDIERS of His ideals

17 hours ago, steve25805 said:

But in the meantime much has been corrupted through additional religious add ons

this is the real meaning behind the Myth of the Exile from Eden: though interpretations about an envious god are fascinating from a rebellious/hollywoodian point of view, the real esoteric meaning is that with knwledge comes the possibility to THINK, which is good, but if used without care, can bring about errors and even fanaticism

17 hours ago, steve25805 said:

Power hungry individuals mixing up false messages for their own reasons of control

 

17 hours ago, steve25805 said:

only a few people have ever been in close enough communication with gods and spirits, and the communications sometimes take the form of dreams or such which can be misinterpreted

both...

absurdily, more the second that the first, that's why though being grossed out by our uninterest, They forgive us anyway

17 hours ago, steve25805 said:

a highly corrupted understanding of it which becomes dogmatically fossilised, and indeed hostile to independent thought or spiritual investigation, seeing that as heresy

the problem is much worse, I'll talk about it when it will be time, because it is of terrible importance and so invasive of people daily life, that for somebody could be embarassing

stay tuned

17 hours ago, steve25805 said:

The original culture you suggest which spread everywhere was later adapted by the Aryans - Indoeuropeans - to become more warlike, presumably predisposing them to military conquest? And yet, I believe - though you have not described them in detail yet - you accept that there are gods of war, similar to Thor or Mars? Might these early Indoeuropeans  have developed a closer understanding of such gods as actual entities in such specific areas? Or was their adaptation of the original understandings the beginnings of religious corruption?

no, not a corruption, they were cool

but they focused more on the Gods that mirrored theirr warfaring lifestyle

Thor is a complicated god, because he has two halves mixing together: the furious half, and the friendly half. The furious half is indeed draw down from the entity I just described, the one I called Crio. The friendly half is just an over-somatization of the friendly attitude of all Gods

Mars too is a fusion of two gods, Ares and Quirinus, the first being the god of furious destruction, and the second being the god of strategy and planned/honourable warfare. Ares in itself is "Crio" (yet Ares was much less mature and wise than the real Gods), while Quirinus is linked to another God, of which I'll talk later (though I already hinted at Him when I mentioned Crio's secondborn)

 

17 hours ago, steve25805 said:

It does seem to me that when spiritual truth gets corrupted by power hungry people, man's innate violence and cruelty to fellow humans seems to become excused, encouraged and endorsed

this is a problem indeed, and an error of humans, for sure, yet the problem of sacrifices is much, much more complicated

 

17 hours ago, steve25805 said:

There can in my mind be nothing sacred about wanton cruelty and sadism

correct

17 hours ago, steve25805 said:

Indeed, I suspect that such cruelties triggered feelings of sadistic pleasure in the minds of many which is wholly base but which was misinterpreted as spiritual or godly.

for sure

 

yet

17 hours ago, steve25805 said:

Why was animal - and even human - sacrifice considered desirable as offerings to the gods?

this is a point I hoped that would have never popped up SO starkly because a stark answer is terribly difficult to be given

I'll try

The Gods needs "calories" to manifest on this plane from the Spiritual World, some of these can be spent by themselves, expending a portion of their ever-regenerating spiritual body, but there are TWO completely different types of spiritual energies, the ETHERIC and the ASTRAL

The Astral is the substance of which the spirits are made of, it implies their power, their intelligence, their skilfulness in manipolating minds and act on the spiritual world

but the possibility to actually interefere with mundane events is the ETHERIC, and spirits do not possess it that much

living beings produce it as a normal feature, that is why sometimes angry ghosts want to possess our bodies, to drain it!

a powerful spirit can force his own astral to turn into etheric, but it almost useless, because a spirit could consume 80% of all his astral (and it could take YEARS to regenerate fully) to produce the same amount of etheric that a man liberates in the environment with a single orgasm

so there is some kind of a pact between spirits and living beings: living beings offer etheric through prayers, orgies, and acts of devotions, and the spirits will use that etheric to help humans in various way (keeping those little traces of astral it is embued-with as payment)

Death detaches the "Green Point" (generator of etheric that only living beings possess) from the soul, so that the soul gets rid of all earthly attachments and, after only astral remain, starts floating in the DreamWeb before rebirth, when a new Green Point will be generated

the Green Point is not a portion of the soul, it is some kind of middle point between it and the body, is the portion of our energetic field that turns every emotion into an etheric wave, so that heart-felt prayers or orgasms (or URINATION!!!!) can feed the Gods

but when it is detached from the body at the moment of physical death, it is no longer needed since daily life is no more, and it disintegrates, liberating an amount of energy of limitless proportion

so yes, a sacrifice (the more evolved the living being, the stronger the effects of its death) feeds the Gods on a great stance, much more than prayers or orgies

this should not embarass on the theorical stance, because just like with every other embarassing truth (is it wrong or right to rob exceedingly, almost tyrannical, rich people? we could debate about this for AGES), the point is FITTINGNESS

The Gods told me that They are theorically against Death penalty, but also know that for a complicated set of reasons, it is wrong to expell the very thought of it from our psyche, because violence is a part of Nature and we must avoid being morally disturbed by it, though obviously being careful about the things you denounced above

Violence will forever re-surface in a way or another, we just should avoid the heartless attitude you correctly debunked previously

In the very, very rare case when Death penalty looks fitting, or even better, when it is impossible to arrest a criminal without killing him, that can be considered fitting for a human sacrifice

the soul will not suffer (the soul never suffers Death, regardless painless or awful, soul is too aloof to be touched by it, that's how Martyrs felt almost no pain while dieing), and the living energy will be stored by the Gods to help other humans

to be utterly sincere, and leaving to my readers the duty to come upon a personal yet wise point of view about, Their very words had been:

 

"Some humans, seen how they are utilizing their current incarnation, are more useful as food for Us than as citizens of the world. But the main thing that Humans must learn is Love, so We will not tell them to kill anybody in Our names, though theorically there would be nothing wrong in it, Death is a dream just as much as Life in comparison to the Eternal cycle of rebirth of the soul in countless bodies, the only thing that matters is to make sure the World will evolve in the right direction, and to perform Our work as Mods of Life, We need power, and some humans create so many problems that their Death would be fitting, they'll do better in their next life; yet, this could teach cruelty to men, and that wouldn't help Our crusade to teach them Love"

 

For what concerns animal sacrifices, well, if you kill them in a painless way after cuddling them for a lunar month, and then cook them and eat them, there's no problems I think

 

anyway, the most important thing to state is that if conducted with terrible intensity and passion, even uncruel acts can feed Them greatly. One thousands orgasms (a devoted pratictioner can reach them in a year) feed Them no less than a human sacrifice, and fifty of them are enough to reach the sacrifice of a bull or a pig

 

animal sacrifices can be part of preparing them for cooking, adding to the powers of the Gods alongside prayers and sexual acts without pointless cruelty

human sacrifices, as said, are best operated on an almost incidental stance, like in a gunfight between Police and criminals (guess why so many Witches, both male and female, joins the Military or become undercover agents) that actually refuse to be arrested as long as they are still breathing

 

their are also useful (yet they don't need to be actually perfomed to be used for this) as a reminder, to remember people that the Truth of the Gods is Ethical, yet not Always comfortable or moral

Edited May 31, 2018 by spywareonya

[Scot_Lover 1,877]

22 hours ago, spywareonya said:

I knew of the Dream Time

we Witches usually do not talk about this

it's our Paradise Lost

 

You don't have to answer this one, it's basically some observations.

I don't think your Paradise is lost, not entirely. Some changes that I've seen in my 50 years looked a bit strange when they we announced, but it makes sense now. There are some places in our land that were readily accessible to anyone, these have now been closed to the public, Ayers Rock, for example is now called Uluru, the original spiritual name. There used to be pathways up the side of this thing, so you could climb it, and marvel at the scenery. I did this once, as part of a school trip back in the late 70's, these have all been removed, there is no access to 'The Rock' at all. You can still go there, drive around it, and take pics of it, but you can no longer walk on it. 

There must have been a significant reason for this, it closed several hotels, an airport, and the small community that served the tourist industry, all gone. I didn't mind this happening at all, returning the entire site to the original owners was an excellent idea, keeping tourists (and their senseless graffiti) off the rock was another. Have a look at Google Earth, you can see where they used to be. 

Did someone discover the real reason to keep the tourists $$$ away?

I've been to a few cave painting sites, hard to get to, some require an overnight stay, and when you're alone with them, you can feel, best I can describe, is a presence, something is there, and it knows you are there too. It's a creepy feeling, but it's a good feeling, a feeling of calm and peace.

I think your Paradise is just waiting.

[spywareonya 37,962]

7 minutes ago, Scot_Lover said:

I've been to a few cave painting sites, hard to get to, some require an overnight stay, and when you're alone with them, you can feel, best I can describe, is a presence, something is there, and it knows you are there too. It's a creepy feeling, but it's a good feeling, a feeling of calm and peace

it looks like you are describing the Gods

 

8 minutes ago, Scot_Lover said:

Ayers Rock

powerful stuff, I have not been there but the Gods told me that there is an egress point there, where energy lines of the Deep Crust surface

 

9 minutes ago, Scot_Lover said:

I think your Paradise is just waiting

Indeed, and it gives us hope, but meanwhile the pain is unbearable

 

[steve25805 126,109]

So sacrifices are useful to the gods because the death of a living being or creature releases energy which they can use to manifest themselves and interact with us with? Am I understanding that correctly?

But the gods abhor human sacrifice as morally wrong unless it is somehow fitting, like if a bad person who is armed and on the run from the police gets shot whilst resisting arrest. And animals killed for food in a humane way is also a fitting sacrifice? 

Have I grasped the basics of it correctly?

Most of the rest of what I wrote you seem to agree with.

When I pointed out that organised religions tend to become dogmatically fixed, discouraging genuine spiritual exploration by regarding it as heresy, becoming fossilised, you said it was worse than that and have more to add on the subject. I await that with interest.

[spywareonya 37,962]

3 hours ago, steve25805 said:

So sacrifices are useful to the gods because the death of a living being or creature releases energy which they can use to manifest themselves and interact with us with? Am I understanding that correctly?

yes, it works that way

little spirits care not for our plane of existence so don't need etheric energy to manifest here

but this also mean that they are somehow locked in their own spiritual realm even more than how much we are supposed to be locked in our made of matter

indeed, spirits evolve slower than embodied souls, that is the reasons why human souls "choosed" incarnation as a way to evolve on a quicker pace

(remember a previous post, on other planets there are no Gods because it is almost impossible that a spiritual being is more evolved than the top-ranking embodied race of that planet, spirits could be more evolved than cats or birds but definitely NOT more than humans, and thus the aliens got spirits for sure on their planets, maybe more evolved than their animals, but not more evolved than them, it is Earth which is strange!)

more powerful spirits understand this handicap and try to fill in the gap

they start to understand that in a distant future, we will reach a melting point between spirit and embodied entity, which we could say a living being embodied in a body made of stellar-plasma, overlapping energy, matter, and spirit

for them is a matter of making their energy more intense, for us, of making our matter more energetic

The Gods and powerful spirits of Earth (the Nature huge fairies I called Djenoun in another post) are interested in human matters also because they are more evolved toward that goal, are less "uncaringly happy" like little fairies

thus They help us because They see us as soldiers of Their ideal, and in the meanwhile we unvoluntarily help them to reclaim this world, giving them etheric to manifest here: after They did what you asked for, the remaining etheric not-already-spent is stored as payment for Their personal uses, and this is the Pact during rituals

Witches, on the other hand, give Them energy also without a personal need, because they know that the stronger the spirit becomes, the more eager He will be in protecting His main she-General

and this is a different kind of Pact, more intimate and less technical, and is called Covenant

we pray to Them and give Them energies, through prayers, sex and acts of devotion, and even without the conscious need for a ritual, They watch over us

and They do, believe me, They do like hell

3 hours ago, steve25805 said:

But the gods abhor human sacrifice as morally wrong unless it is somehow fitting, like if a bad person who is armed and on the run from the police gets shot whilst resisting arrest

I'll explain it better

on the theorical stance, Death is simply Death, Existence is too vast to allow the Cosmical Good to abhor something we could one day take help from. If something is, has been, or will ever be useful for the Good, then is part of the Good, though the greates part of the Good is Always fittingness

to kill, even to kill in a ritualized way, is part of the Good

but on Earth is not fitting because we should train ourselves in Love much more than in violence

Think about the beginning of the Ridley's Scot movie Prometheus: an Engineer drinks that black fluid and dies, yet his Death creates life on that lifeless planet

it is a teasing about the fact that in ancient times, men sacrificed their leader, who offered himself willingly after nominating a successor, upon the discovery of a fitting place to build a new town, becoming in Death the spiritual patron of that town

this is so true that even in deep  occultism, there is an office than can be interpreted by a great magician upon Death, which is to be buried into a place planned by the city to become a new cemetary

that soul will not undergo rebirth, and will indeed remain as a spiritual keeper of the souls of those who are buried there, becoming what is called a "Varròn", a word from which also "Baron" comes

the world-know Voodoo spirit Baron Samedi, keeper of the dead, is indeed nothing more than a personification of this truth

inflicting Death is no big deal in front of Infinity and Eternity

the point in every action is avoiding feeding BARBARITY which is the only true evil

on Earth, the practice of human sacrifices could feed barbarity, so They usually avoid it

3 hours ago, steve25805 said:

And animals killed for food in a humane way is also a fitting sacrifice? 

it would if those who kille them could cuddle them fora luner month before and get sure they are killed in a painless way, usually turning them unconscious through certain incenses before killing them, and meanwhile caress them and pray  for them with actual intent

modern abbattoir are not that spiritual, though useful for our complete diet, but indeed not that spiritual in themselves...

3 hours ago, steve25805 said:

Have I grasped the basics of it correctly?

Most of the rest of what I wrote you seem to agree with.

all ok

3 hours ago, steve25805 said:

When I pointed out that organised religions tend to become dogmatically fixed, discouraging genuine spiritual exploration by regarding it as heresy, becoming fossilised, you said it was worse than that and have more to add on the subject. I await that with interest

4000 years ago something happened

Humans started to discover war on a more intimate and actual stance, rather than attacking a rival clan

they started to think about rules, dominion, power

and something went wrong

the greatest people of that period, the Hyksos, ancestor of Jews, were the favourite soldiers of the Gods, giving Birth to the legend of the jews being the "Chosen People of God", but they failed to monitor themselves and as normal they got corrupted

the divided in two halves, one merciful upon conquest, one exceedingly warfaring

the most warfaring of the two parties exterminated the other and started to conquer the Middle East

this is the famous jewish passage talking about God getting dissatisfied with his people, relinquishing its protection and allowing other nations to defeat it, and indeed it happened, the Babylonians, who had Always worshipped the Gods, defeated the Jewish Empire and took them in slavery

Jewish Prophets admonished people that it was a sign of having losed the favour of God due to exceeding violence, but people didn't listened and harboured hatred in their hearts

thus a split happened, unnoticed by History (yet not unnoticed at all by archeologists indeed, and definitely not by occultists), between those worshipping YHWH (a symbolical name for he Overseers, of which the Jews had been told by the Gods) and those worshipping Yaveh, which is utterly not the same thing at all

Yaveh is an Eggregore, an entity identical to the Tibetan Buddhist "Tulpa", a magickal construct, like a programmed living computer, a living spell witha programmed personality, built through rituals and devotion, and feeding on energies identical to those who gave Birth to it

a Tulpa created through meditation for protection will feed on love and honour, a tulpa born out of hatred and grudge will feed on merciless domination and extermination of "heresy"

Yaveh slowly corrupted the Jewsish religion, giving rise to the monolithic dictatorship of which one could easily read in the Bible, condemning to Death whoever disobey their "God"

The Old Testament bloodthirsty "god" is Yaveh, a tulpa who was fed with too many twisted prayers and people killed in his name, and went insane, actually believing he is the answer humans need to live in peace under his rule

Jesus tried to build another tulpa to fight back Yaveh and save the Jews (that's why the Christian God is more kind than the Jewish one) but after his Death his message was betrayed and this new tulpa was transformed into a guardian of strict morality, reaching the point of turning it into an even more folly tulpa (see Crusades and Inquisition)

Muhammed was then contacted by the Gods to stop the deranged Christian Invasion and built a religion with less interpretation and dogmas (theorical/occult Islam is MARVELLOUS), but it underwent corruption too

so the Gods started again, but this time in secrecy, gathering all substainer of the ancient ways and re-built Witchcraft

now, three demented tulpas actually whisper to their believers to expand their own agenda, the god of Jews (almost defeated, he got too few believers, Jews are between 10 and 30 millions), and the two tyrants of the world, the god of modern christianity, and allah, written willingly without the capital A because the real Allah is one of the Gods and a marvellously spiritual God, one of the ones I love most and the one Who actually Initiated me, so I would never call by His Holy Name a deranged tulpa spreading the modern interpretation of Islam

 

this is the real problem: the corruption of religions is NOT only a human thing

the very gods to which people pray are actual corrupted entities who ACTUALLY love when their religion overwhelm another

the modern Christian "god" really wants the Church to take over the world and eliminate free-will

the modern allah really wants terrorists to die and kill in his name

the ORIGINAL GOD and ALLAH are two of the Gods, desperate at the present situation, feeling like what Jesus could feel coming theorically speaking back to Earth during Crusades seeing soldiers butchering and raping screaming "In the Name of Jesus Christ!!!"

same said for the Jewish God

They are all marvellous spirits, but They did NOT taught the modern cultures of these religions, which had been corrupted by evil entities, adding the problem of Tulpas tothe originally existing problem of Demons, compelling the Gods to fight on TWO fronts

whenever a christian prays to God with all his heart and is willing to be a follower of Jesus, or a Jew practice Kabbalah, or a Muslim studies the Qu'Ran, something good reaches the Gods

but everytime a persona, no matter how good hearted, comply with the moralistic dictatorship of modern religion while he kneels down to pray, he is feeding the tulpa that controls his religion

this is why it is so much a problem: the modern shitty interpretations of religions are not only an origginally-born-as-human-made errors: now they even got actual spiritual evil patrons!!!!!!!!!!!

[spywareonya 37,962]

@steve25805 asked me a question about the Ley Lines, and I actually asked the Gods about them since I wanted to be sure of delivering a correct answer

 

Ok, the Ley Lines are heavy shit (slang, it means important stuff), and they are

a misunderstanding/hoax stemming forth a root of truth

what is true:

there are energetic veins in the depth of Earth, along which energy runs, both physical and spiritual, and they extend among all continents, and indeed yes, some holy sites are built on purpose where these veins surfaces

what is a misunderstanding/hoax:

these veins are not linear; the graphical representation of LeyLines are straight lines connecting holy sites of the world, and the truth about this feature is that if you extend a line that incidentally connect two holy sites, sooner or later you'll eventually meet another one

so yes, Ley LInes exists, but NOT in the guise they have been described, like straight lines connecting spiritually powerful places: those veins are like true veins, they are everchanging in direction though heading toward a point, like rivers!

the straight lines are simply something that was in the mind of somebody who tried any chance of linking them and found some images, but are all made up

it was like believing there are links between two town in Europe and USA only because they got the same Latitude

anyway, true veins are of the utmost importance, and yes, whenever they Surface, you can make magick like a boss there!

[steve25805 126,109]

Thank you spywareonya for all the time and effort you must put into your posts. It is most appreciated.

So human sacrifice is avoided because of the potential for barbarity and human sadism to come into it, which is antithetical to love? 

You mention that in times gone by some humans would willingly offer themselves up as sacrifices for the gods. 

But you say they "usually avoid it." That is not the same thing as always avoiding it. Are there any circumstances in which witches would indulge in ritualised human sacrifices? And if so, is it important for the sacrificed person to be willing or else to be a very bad person deserving of death? Do you know of any covens who do this? Because it is very dangerous territory legally speaking, and a potential minefield morally. 

Personally, as someone who opposes the death penalty even for the worst offenders, the very idea of human sacrifice does not sit well with me. I totally get that in the cosmic totally of everything, and with all living beings having souls which can benefit from fresh starts, life or death of an individual in material form matters very little. In the big scheme of things death is nothing bad and can be a way to good. But morally speaking - as I can remember saying before - I very much have a "this life" perspective. And from such a perspective there is nothing that matters more, morally, than the life of an individual person. The death of anyone - morally speaking - is something that matters more than anything else ever could to me.

I notice that you refer to the need to treat animals with huge amounts of love for a lunar month before sacrificing them. The Aztecs used to do something similar - with human children. This is why this area is such a moral quagmire potentially. Acceptability can shade into unacceptability quite easily.

I struggle with the concept from a moral perspective if I must be honest, definitely where human sacrifice is concerned. Bottom line for me is that I would have no desire to serve any gods asking for human sacrifice. It's a moral line I will not cross, even theoretically speaking.

Thanks for your clarification re ley lines, by the way. I always thought that geometric lines across the landscape were suspect, too "man made" almost. The way you describe it makes much more sense.

[spywareonya 37,962]

3 hours ago, steve25805 said:

Thank you spywareonya for all the time and effort you must put into your posts. It is most appreciated.

So human sacrifice is avoided because of the potential for barbarity and human sadism to come into it, which is antithetical to love? 

You mention that in times gone by some humans would willingly offer themselves up as sacrifices for the gods. 

But you say they "usually avoid it." That is not the same thing as always avoiding it. Are there any circumstances in which witches would indulge in ritualised human sacrifices? And if so, is it important for the sacrificed person to be willing or else to be a very bad person deserving of death? Do you know of any covens who do this? Because it is very dangerous territory legally speaking, and a potential minefield morally. 

Personally, as someone who opposes the death penalty even for the worst offenders, the very idea of human sacrifice does not sit well with me. I totally get that in the cosmic totally of everything, and with all living beings having souls which can benefit from fresh starts, life or death of an individual in material form matters very little. In the big scheme of things death is nothing bad and can be a way to good. But morally speaking - as I can remember saying before - I very much have a "this life" perspective. And from such a perspective there is nothing that matters more, morally, than the life of an individual person. The death of anyone - morally speaking - is something that matters more than anything else ever could to me.

I notice that you refer to the need to treat animals with huge amounts of love for a lunar month before sacrificing them. The Aztecs used to do something similar - with human children. This is why this area is such a moral quagmire potentially. Acceptability can shade into unacceptability quite easily.

I struggle with the concept from a moral perspective if I must be honest, definitely where human sacrifice is concerned. Bottom line for me is that I would have no desire to serve any gods asking for human sacrifice. It's a moral line I will not cross, even theoretically speaking.

Thanks for your clarification re ley lines, by the way. I always thought that geometric lines across the landscape were suspect, too "man made" almost. The way you describe it makes much more sense.

 

 

Ok Steve this is not easy

let me explain because it is not easy for real

I put in my description an unvoluntary choice of words and terms which is too dry on the emotional stance

the Gods care much for our emotional wellbeing and respect life, also a this-life attitude

 

allow me to explain it in a more complete and responsible way

 

in humans there are drives

we use morality to make them pause until we learnt how to control them, but this cannot work forever since everything in us wants to be ethically controlled and not simply shunned, we would make this portion of us to suffer

 

in every living being there is the drive to kill, is put there by Nature, and should not be used unless fitting, so we built morality to forbid people and ourselves about using it unfittingly

but there it remains, and one day we will need to master it

the Gods simply told us that Killing in Their name gives them energy, because in a time when Killing was normal, it could be useful to Them

 

for what concerns now,  talking about violence will start decensoring the subject in our mind: decensoring is good, it allows growth and engender maturity and serenity, eliminating the sensation of living side-by-side with and unknown unconscious

 

it's not that They requires sacrifices, this is a very key concept because They usually do not require anything, because according to Their teachings, anytime somebody felt pushed toward something, that is a little act of barbarity, They only want us to decensor, so to stop hiding behind a do-not list, taking full responsibilities to mix what we know about the Cosmos, and our personal morality

the former will be civilized, the latter, expanded

for what concerns willing sacrifices, they happened in the past, but what I told you was not exactly related to the Gods, was a common feature even Beyond occultism, we are talkng of times when human just discovered the wheel

 

When talking about sacrifices I said "usually avoid" and not "Always avoid" is because "always" is a word whose use is complicated in occultism, since nothing is Always wrong beside black magick, everything could one day be useful, obviously if something is not fitting then it is wrong to make it happen

 

 

It's true that some Witches became undercover agents, they lure terrorists and drugdealers into arrest or setups, sometimes even kill them there and then. I never met these Witches but I know they exists. Even Police does it, so what's the matter?

 

What I probably didn't stressed up enough, is that the Gods are NOT entities with a diffferent morality from us, is a subtler thing, they see us as a dietologist could see us: a healthy human can eat everything but some things only in little amounts, an ill human should definitely avoid some substances

we humans are ill of barbarity, we don't feel enough forgiveness, calm, love, we don't perceive enough the inherent Worth of what stands in front of us: so we should avoid other violence, beside the little amount necessary to decensor the very drive in our unconscious, that elsewhere could Surface in some irrational way since we are not trained about knowing and controlling it

 

even perfectly healthy humans should have a diet with little violence, but theorically speaking, a human which is complete and perfect could administrate Death according to the very fittingness of the moment

until we will be like this hypothetical humans, devoid of grudge and barbarity, we are told not to kill, because it could make our flaws to think they are right, that humans are cannon fodder

 

sometimes, Killing is necessary even if the person is not exactly perfect, and in this case, They simply do not shun this person and its actions, but when it is possible, They Always favour a peaceful solution

 

now, if you ask me about kidnapping somebody and ritually sacrifice this person, I can tell you that beside a lot of so called satanists claiming they did (and that maybe did for real, without knowing it is an act of black magick), Witches usually do not do that, and again I am saying "usually" because what do I know in reality?

Maybe somewhere a Witch living alone had been raped by a robber and this man will escape police since it's a corrupted agent, and if the Witch somehow can spray him with a stunning witch powder and immobilize him, maybe will feel that this man is destined to kill a pregnant woman in future because he will evade arrest, and the most moral thing to do is Killing him there and then (obviously in real life a Witch shouldn't trust herself to the point of Killing a human, what I am building here is the plot of a movie!), so since he must die, why doesn't ritually offer him to Them?

 

my concept of "usually" means your "always", is just that a Witch explores the fringes of Life and there it happens that sometimes, something usually Always-unfitting may become fitting just for once

 

to complete it once and for all, I'll sum it up again:

Violence is part of Nature, so is part of Humans, so the Gods do not shun it

They prefer human diet to be kill-free

sometimes, under certain circumstances, something usually wrong could become right, and in that case They endorse

a human sacrifice will obviously feed an entity, and since somebody who is sacrificed to Them is so purified by all his bad karma that his soul exults though maybe the personality will not be that happy in its last seconds, They do not shun the tought in itself

but everytime that I asked Them about this stuff so to better understand, They Always told me the same thing every time I asked "...and what about this very case?":

"HE DOESN'T DESERVE TO DIE, AND BESIDE IT, SUCH AN ACTION COULD POISON YOUR SOUL"

Ask again if you still have doubts

[spywareonya 37,962]

Violence is part of being human

it cannot be erased, only controlled

start from this point of view rather than from fear or disgust toward human WAYS about it, and instead of using all your "brain CPU" to stop humans from using it (about which you are right anyway, uh!), you will ALSO start to ask yourself under which circumstances it is fitting that it surfaces, since it being part of Nature and therefore right, sometimes will, mandatorily!

at this point you'll come to realize we cannot shun it, just understand and master it, and slowly, slowly, sloooooooooooooowly, you'll understand that They help us in controlling it, and that the fact that They do not shun it on the theorical stances doesn't mean They have any resemblance to blood-thirsty human beings

[Scot_Lover 1,877]

Sorry to butt in here, do you know when pee as a replacement for blood was introduced? I'm guessing that this was started because of the dim view of knocking people off. 

Was it just accepted as a suitable replacement? 

I, for one, don't like inflicting pain, and you can guess what I prefer to receive 😊

 

 

[spywareonya 37,962]

21 minutes ago, Scot_Lover said:

lSorry to butt in here, do you know when pee as a replacement for blood was introduced? I'm guessing that this was started because of the dim view of knocking people off. 

Was it just accepted as a suitable replacement? 

I, for one, don't like inflicting pain, and you can guess what I prefer to receive 😊

 

 

first of all you are not butting, you have been part of this thread since its beginning, so ask anything you want, anytime

now, about the question, it's not a replacement, this is terribly complicated

basicly (I'm not complaining, just notifying) you guys are asking me to explain to you stuff that only people with ten years of training are able to accept!!!

Pee is not a replacement in the meaning that everything that gives energy is OK so theorically it CAN be a replacement, but the use of urine in magick comes, quite funnily indeed, from the deepest currents of Occults, those who strive to  re-shape humans in the guise of an (APPARENTLY) emotionally-uncaring Nature, and practiced human sacrifices like breathing air, hundreds of years ago

 

Urine can bring along (but I am not describing it now, it's too deep stuff, maybe I will, but only later, really much later and only maybe) magick with a power that even surpass blood offerings, but the ways this works is NOT about replacement

now read carefully and strive to understand:

 

Urine brings along the same spiritual PH of the most extreme acts you ever did on the scale of de-censoring the great taboos of humans

usually, these taboos are "Work too much or too heavily", "Be sexually extreme", "understand and utilize violence beside acts of anger"

there are also other obviously but these are paramount

let's make an example

imagine a girl peeing down the streets after a party

and now imagine peeing down the streets a woman who recently attained world-acclaim for being a Medic who worked 120 hours in a week because of a terrible accident that occurred near her little town, now she is walking down the streets without almost remembering her name and decided she got the god-given right to pop a fucking squat there and then

the second situations brings along one billion time the charisma of the first situation, isn't it?

 

and now, imagine a girl peeing openly from her chair in a pub: maybe she is drunk

or maybe she is a she-devil, leader of a terrible gang of vigilantes who kill drugdealers in Sout America

the second situation gives ten thousands time more thrills

 

So, Urine gives energy and that energy can theorically substitute blood offering, but the amount of energy given depends on how much your morality is trained to be not-immature-anymore, so the piss of an evil woman, cheating on the economy of the Corporation she runs so to fire people, will not stir any sexual thrill (I'd just kick her in her face), as much the piss of a mild girl simply on the verge of wetting herself is cute but not "powerful"

evil and innocence are but useless for evolution, a real grown up soul is somebody who is willing to get his hands dirty and then find a peaceful way because he loves peace, not because he fears the unknown depths of violence

 

my urine is as powerful as a blood offering because the day of my Initiation, when nobody told anything of what would have appened, I was told at a certain point to "Give something to the Gods", those who told me that expected an adfirmation of trust and love, maybe a song or a poetry, or maybe wanted myself to tell Them I was happy to meet Them, instead something enormous and terrible sourged in me, I took the ceremonial dagger and sliced my hand, then put the blood on a little tissue, and lock it into a little empty perfume bottle I brought along to be filled maybe with pee or consacrated water, and gave it to Alex as a bond of love

all was amazed by this act of mine, and I obtained respect and even fear, for the willingness and boldness of that action

not that I wasn't afraid or did not felt pain: but the desire to surpass myself was greater

 

from that on, my blood offerings had been through my menstrual blood, and when I buy meat to be cooked, first I mop the blood and the burn the bloodstained tissue in the garden during a ritual

but when confronted with criminal I enraged in the past years (a Witch can't look the other way while drugs spread in a block previously pure and good for families), I prepared myself to die, to die for real, and to make my eventual Death as an offering for Them

it didn't happened, but that counts, because it was sincere

and now my urine brings along almost the power of a human sacrifice

but MY urine

the one of somebody else will bring along THEIR personal list of achievement on the scale of "de-censoring what is usually taboo for humans"

 

and beside all of this, Scot, LEARN TO FUCKING MENTION/QUOTE ME, so I'll answer you eagerly, unless I could fail to see it!!! ahahahahahahahahaha!!!

[Scot_Lover 1,877]

9 hours ago, spywareonya said:

first of all you are not butting, you have been part of this thread since its beginning, so ask anything you want, anytime

now, about the question, it's not a replacement, this is terribly complicated

basicly (I'm not complaining, just notifying) you guys are asking me to explain to you stuff that only people with ten years of training are able to accept!!!

Pee is not a replacement in the meaning that everything that gives energy is OK so theorically it CAN be a replacement, but the use of urine in magick comes, quite funnily indeed, from the deepest currents of Occults, those who strive to  re-shape humans in the guise of an (APPARENTLY) emotionally-uncaring Nature, and practiced human sacrifices like breathing air, hundreds of years ago

 

Urine can bring along (but I am not describing it now, it's too deep stuff, maybe I will, but only later, really much later and only maybe) magick with a power that even surpass blood offerings, but the ways this works is NOT about replacement

now read carefully and strive to understand:

 

Urine brings along the same spiritual PH of the most extreme acts you ever did on the scale of de-censoring the great taboos of humans

usually, these taboos are "Work too much or too heavily", "Be sexually extreme", "understand and utilize violence beside acts of anger"

there are also other obviously but these are paramount

let's make an example

imagine a girl peeing down the streets after a party

and now imagine peeing down the streets a woman who recently attained world-acclaim for being a Medic who worked 120 hours in a week because of a terrible accident that occurred near her little town, now she is walking down the streets without almost remembering her name and decided she got the god-given right to pop a fucking squat there and then

the second situations brings along one billion time the charisma of the first situation, isn't it?

 

and now, imagine a girl peeing openly from her chair in a pub: maybe she is drunk

or maybe she is a she-devil, leader of a terrible gang of vigilantes who kill drugdealers in Sout America

the second situation gives ten thousands time more thrills

 

So, Urine gives energy and that energy can theorically substitute blood offering, but the amount of energy given depends on how much your morality is trained to be not-immature-anymore, so the piss of an evil woman, cheating on the economy of the Corporation she runs so to fire people, will not stir any sexual thrill (I'd just kick her in her face), as much the piss of a mild girl simply on the verge of wetting herself is cute but not "powerful"

evil and innocence are but useless for evolution, a real grown up soul is somebody who is willing to get his hands dirty and then find a peaceful way because he loves peace, not because he fears the unknown depths of violence

 

my urine is as powerful as a blood offering because the day of my Initiation, when nobody told anything of what would have appened, I was told at a certain point to "Give something to the Gods", those who told me that expected an adfirmation of trust and love, maybe a song or a poetry, or maybe wanted myself to tell Them I was happy to meet Them, instead something enormous and terrible sourged in me, I took the ceremonial dagger and sliced my hand, then put the blood on a little tissue, and lock it into a little empty perfume bottle I brought along to be filled maybe with pee or consacrated water, and gave it to Alex as a bond of love

all was amazed by this act of mine, and I obtained respect and even fear, for the willingness and boldness of that action

not that I wasn't afraid or did not felt pain: but the desire to surpass myself was greater

 

from that on, my blood offerings had been through my menstrual blood, and when I buy meat to be cooked, first I mop the blood and the burn the bloodstained tissue in the garden during a ritual

but when confronted with criminal I enraged in the past years (a Witch can't look the other way while drugs spread in a block previously pure and good for families), I prepared myself to die, to die for real, and to make my eventual Death as an offering for Them

it didn't happened, but that counts, because it was sincere

and now my urine brings along almost the power of a human sacrifice

but MY urine

the one of somebody else will bring along THEIR personal list of achievement on the scale of "de-censoring what is usually taboo for humans"

 

and beside all of this, Scot, LEARN TO FUCKING MENTION/QUOTE ME, so I'll answer you eagerly, unless I could fail to see it!!! ahahahahahahahahaha!!!

@spywareonya

Lol, sorry. It's a bit cumbersome doing it on iPad / phone but I'll try.

This all ties in with the human sacrifices that happened in South America and to a lesser extent, the blots that occurred through Europe. Most of these were carried out by the Church, basically 'let's teach the population about our God' and thin the crowds in the name of this god. Killing people seemed to be universally accepted, using something harmless as a sacrifice was not.

Were the people that perpetrated these things just psychopaths that came to power? Or did some 'renegade' God run amuck and brainwash some weak minded people into doing it?

Based on the historical evidence, I'll guess we never know, but some of those purges were epic, epic enough to make history.

 

[spywareonya 37,962]

1 minute ago, Scot_Lover said:

@spywareonya

Lol, sorry. It's a bit cumbersome doing it on iPad / phone but I'll try.

This all ties in with the human sacrifices that happened in South America and to a lesser extent, the blots that occurred through Europe. Most of these were carried out by the Church, basically 'let's teach the population about our God' and thin the crowds in the name of this god. Killing people seemed to be universally accepted, using something harmless as a sacrifice was not.

Were the people that perpetrated these things just psychopaths that came to power? Or did some 'renegade' God run amuck and brainwash some weak minded people into doing it?

Based on the historical evidence, I'll guess we never know, but some of those purges were epic, epic enough to make history.

 

In the previous posts I wrote something about "god" brainwashing people, take a look

ithere can be some misunderstanding seeing Occult through the lens of History because the reasons some people did some things (like the Church burning so called witches compared to Aztecs sacrifices) is not the same reason why the same things are done in the Occult

the Norse Blot was ALSO a hormonally shaking way to make people feel crazed before battle and strenghten the ties between the tribe with some loud action, but I am NOT talking about it in these posts of mine, here I do explore sacrifices under the use they can have in supernatural, not in sociology

[Scot_Lover 1,877]

2 minutes ago, spywareonya said:

the Norse Blot was ALSO a hormonally shaking way to make people feel crazed before battle and strenghten the ties between the tribe with some loud action, but I am NOT talking about it in these posts of mine, here I do explore sacrifices under the use they can have in supernatural, not in sociology

Ok, got it. Think I may have derailed the thread a little. 

Bear in mind, three people are inputting thoughts here, we talk about this a fair bit, and we thank you for the knowledge you share.

[steve25805 126,109]

4 hours ago, Scot_Lover said:

Ok, got it. Think I may have derailed the thread a little. 

Bear in mind, three people are inputting thoughts here, we talk about this a fair bit, and we thank you for the knowledge you share.

A thread like this will go where it goes. There is no such thing as derailing it. Your input - and @spywareonya's responses - are most interesting. Am glad you are active here and it is not just myself and her.

 

[steve25805 126,109]

15 hours ago, spywareonya said:

 

It's true that some Witches became undercover agents, they lure terrorists and drugdealers into arrest or setups, sometimes even kill them there and then. I never met these Witches but I know they exists. Even Police does it, so what's the matter?

The circumstances of the killing matter to me from a moralistic rule of law perspective. Always remember that I am active in politics so am likely to hold such things dear. If a bad person is resisting arrest and shooting at those trying to apprehend him or her, or posing a threat to others, then it will be necessary to shoot to kill that person if they refuse to surrender.

But if the person is killed after being apprehended and disarmed when no longer posing a threat, that is an extra-judicial killing. It is a case of the police or whomever else apprehended that person acting as judge, jury and executioner. That is a denial of due process whereby everyone should be entitled to a fair trial. All the more so here since we do not even have a death penalty. If we allow the police to act as judge, jury and executioner rather than putting the arrested person through due process and a court of law, then as a society we are going into some very dangerous territory. The police are our servants. They should not - unless life and limb is being threatened by somebody - have the power of life or death over anyone. No one individual should have that power in a society based upon freedom, security, and the rule of law.

Speech over, lol.

Beyond that, I think I get where you are coming from in avoiding the word "always". It is too absolute. Never say never and all that. And one can never know with absolute certainty what unforeseen circumstances might arise in the future.

I also hear what you say about the gods telling you someone does not deserve to die and that killing them will poison your soul. I think if we kill anyone without it being absolutely necessary and done with love, then it WILL poison our souls. An example of where killing could be theoretically necessary and done with love would be if a bad person were threatening the life of someone I cared deeply about and was going to kill that loved one. My love for his intended victim would motivate me to risk my life to protect her, and if necessary kill the bad person to stop him from harming her. Killing in self defence is also acceptable if someone is attempting to kill you or do you severe injury. There are possible scenarios where killing would be the right thing to do if it is necessary to protect yourself or others. Otherwise, no.

One other thing that troubles my mind occasionally. You know I have a very close female friend in real life whom I have known for much longer than you, and who is herself knowledgeable about this sort of thing. I trust her almost completely. I do not discuss any of our discussions with her though, because you have asked me not to. Thing is, I just know that some of the things we talk about here she would tell me to back away from, and I feel torn a little in keeping it all from her. I do so out of loyalty to you and our friendship because I have promised you that and am a man of integrity in that way. I will not break my word. But the friend I am talking about is a real life friend as well as an internet one and someone I have known longer than you, and who knows about this sort of stuff too. And is psychically gifted as well. She senses a lot of stuff. So our discussions are not something I would like to keep from her forever. And the fact that she would I suspect tell me to back away from some aspects of our discussions, and be more wary in general, does play on my mind a bit and fuels a sense of unease in me. It is in no way mistrust in you, just wariness about all I am told because I am always second-guessing what my best friend would be telling me if she knew.

[Scot_Lover 1,877]

7 hours ago, steve25805 said:

A thread like this will go where it goes. There is no such thing as derailing it. Your input - and @spywareonya's responses - are most interesting. Am glad you are active here and it is not just myself and her.

 

Thanks @steve25805, will will keep on following the thread.

 

[Scot_Lover 1,877]

6 hours ago, steve25805 said:

One other thing that troubles my mind occasionally. You know I have a very close female friend in real life whom I have known for much longer than you, and who is herself knowledgeable about this sort of thing. I trust her almost completely. I do not discuss any of our discussions with her though, because you have asked me not to. Thing is, I just know that some of the things we talk about here she would tell me to back away from, and I feel torn a little in keeping it all from her. I do so out of loyalty to you and our friendship because I have promised you that and am a man of integrity in that way. I will not break my word. But the friend I am talking about is a real life friend as well as an internet one and someone I have known longer than you, and who knows about this sort of stuff too. And is psychically gifted as well. She senses a lot of stuff. So our discussions are not something I would like to keep from her forever. And the fact that she would I suspect tell me to back away from some aspects of our discussions, and be more wary in general, does play on my mind a bit and fuels a sense of unease in me. It is in no way mistrust in you, just wariness about all I am told because I am always second-guessing what my best friend would be telling me if she knew.

I felt the same way with Maigh, but in the end, I shared everything. She has an 'uncomfortable' way of just knowing things. I was just easier to give her the Ipad and let her read the entire thread. Most of the things I've posted are from us talking them over, three people on it works well, and when all 3 of us go our different ways searching for things, some weird and wild things are found.