Town Hall: Issues? Suggestions? Improvements?

[Admin 14,791]

All, I want to have a town hall meeting of sorts, and give you a bit of an update. I am aware that there have been some issues lately, and a few people have left due to disagreements. Basically, I just want to hear from you. What can we improve upon? What needs to be fixed? What are the outstanding issues?

Update: After purchasing this site a few months ago I've been trying to figure out what can be done better. I am a firm believer in the concept of continuous improvement. As I am sure you all have noticed by now I've changed the name to PeeFans.Com, (watchgirlspeeing.com re-directs here). As I've explained in another post, I made the change to more accurately reflect what the site is about, and to make the name less wordy. Making the name shorter makes it easier to remember, is more search engine friendly, and having the word "girls" in the domain name of an adult oriented site might suggest something nefarious to outsiders. I've been doing some advertising on pee fetish sites, and we've seen some promising results. I've also been looking for a replacement for the video gallery as it is missing some administration features that I'd like to see, but so far none of the replacements have been suitable, so we will likely stick with what we have for now. I've recently made some back-end changes that will improve security, and should help improve the overall speed. In the near future I will be changing the fee structure such that you don't need to pay for a video gallery membership and a premium membership, they will be rolled into one, this is primarily to reduce confusion. For those of you who already have lifetime access nothing will change, it will only effect new signups. I've been working on trying to get more licensed content, and have been throwing around the idea of setting up a marketplace board where people can list items for sale such as pictures, cam shows, custom items, etc. I know there is a market for custom pee content, but most mainstream sites outright ban anything to do with pee. I've also been looking at acquiring other pee related sites to drive more traffic here. Ultimately, my goal is to make this site the premier pee fetish site on the web, with the best content and the most active community.

[wetmanjf 2,787]

I like the idea of a Marketboard but we would have to keep a tight control of who sells there as we don't want a lot of scammers coming in and ripping people off

as that would give the site a bad reputation

Wetmanjf

[MissPiss 1,027]

What sets this place apart is it's a genuinely friendly place for the fans. . . I hope you don't let greed for making money turn this place into another piracy fueled tube site.

[Admin 14,791]

What sets this place apart is it's a genuinely friendly place for the fans. . . I hope you don't let greed for making money turn this place into another piracy fueled tube site.

The idea behind updating the video gallery is to make it easier to manage, and easier for people to use. Fundamentally, nothing would change. As far as the pricing, I think the total price would actually go down. It's been a point of confusion for people having a "Premium Membership" and a "Lifetime Video Gallery Membership", I'd much rather have a single membership fee that is somewhere in the middle price wise. I want to grow the community and encourage people to participate, you don't get that by being greedy.

[Admin 14,791]

I like the idea of a Marketboard but we would have to keep a tight control of who sells there as we don't want a lot of scammers coming in and ripping people off

as that would give the site a bad reputation

Wetmanjf

Agreed. The idea would be that it's a place for people to come together to buy/sell things, we would not handle the transactions. It would likely work off of a review system similar to other marketplace sites.

[steve25805 126,149]

Concerning the issues lately.

I resigned my position as moderator because I felt that controversial postings were being made which were not against any rules because we have no rules, but which have been instrumental in driving good female members away. And because there was a massive difference of opinion on this between myself and Egwalrus, who fully backed the particular opinions in question, when it came to the good of this forum I felt powerless to act. There are no rules to refer to, and thus my position became untenable.

I think this forum needs a few basic written rules. Common sense alone appears to be insufficient when mods themselves can so fundamentally disagree. We have no common terms of reference. Only Admin can decide what the rules should be, but we can all make suggestions. Here are one or two of mine.....

1. Any expression of overt bigrotry, racism, homophobia, etc, should be against forum rules.

2. Political and religious discussions should be banned, unless they are directly related to our fetish, eg pornography laws, censorship of vids or fetish sites, etc. Such issues, whether left or right, can be way too controversial for some and drive people away, yet their discussion is unlikely to be something that attracts new members.

Bottom line is - the success of this forum, and the widest and most active membership possible, ought to be even more important than the absolute freedom to say controversial off-topic things. Other forums exist for the expression of political and religious opinions. They do more harm than good to forums like this.

Other potential rules are more obvious but are nevertheless best written down.

Eg, no abusive or threatening posts or PMs, no trolling or harassment of other members, no spreading of malicious falsehoods, no attempts to interfere in the private lives of members for malicious purposes, no posting of personal information about other members without their consent, and that sort of thing...

And of course, no paedophilia at all or the advocacy of sexual assaults, or harm being done to people.

I would also advocate a ban on overt bestiality (but this should not be confused with adult so called "furry" roleplay where adults pretend to be animals. This is similar to infantilism where adults pretend to be babies, which is wholly different from paedophilia, and essentially harmless).

Bestiality is a highly controversial fetish, whose inclusion here would likely attract more unwelcome attention for no purpose. Because there is very little crossover between it and our fetish.

Some might advocate banning scat too. I would not, simply because - as another toilet function - there is a lot more crossover between it and pee fetishism. A substantial minority of pee fetishists have some interest in it. As long as it is separated off into it's own subforums, eg "other adult content" and clearly signposted as scat, I think we can have the best of both worlds, including it as an added attraction for those who are interested, whilst making it very easy for those who are not to avoid it.

However, if there is a strong consensus of opinion that scat should be banned too, and that becomes a written rule, I will respect and abide by it.

[steve25805 126,149]

One more rule that I do regard as essential, and has long been an unwritten rule here with the active encouragement of the former Admin.

It should be against forum rules to criticise the fetish behaviour, confessions, pics, experiences, or fantasies of other members - unless any of them are themselves against forum rules, eg paedophile fantasies.

Many of us have seen where such moralistic judgementalism can lead on other forums, with a self-appointed "morality police" derailing on sight any thread they disagree with. Those of us with an interest in girls peeing in naughty places early on contributed to the initial success of this forum when it started, because we became refugees from elsewhere where the morality police were ruining every thread that interested us.

Quite a few prominent members might end up leaving if this were allowed to take hold here.

[Admin 14,791]

We will establish a set of forum rules and post them within the next few days. What do you all think about creating a Politics/General discussion board?

[steve25805 126,149]

I always find it amazing how some want to silence opinions with which they do not agree, under the guise of "not offending anyone". The problem is that some people actually think that everything should be equally accepted, and those who disagree are then vilified. I try to avoid politics here, but when someone makes a statement that I consider to be either a blatant falsehood or in my opinion totally and completely misguided, I am not going to sit and accept that point of view as factual.

The issue that caused Steve to leave his post as a moderator was a post comparing the actions of so called refugees to the actions of people on a normal weekend evening. I refused to accept the idea that sexual assaults by these refugees are not a big deal but some want to silence such opinions saying they are bigoted, racist or using other name calling.

I have no problem with respectful disagreement, but the use of political correctness and attempts to silence other opinions is offensive to me. Why should I hide my views top avoid having someone offended when my being offended by the politically correct "rules" is considered non important?

The issue with me wasn't a desire to silence criticism of sexual assaults by some refugees. What offended the departing members - primarily the reason for my angst - was the equating of such beliefs and actions with ALL such refugees of a certain religion without exception, pejoratively labelling ALL of them without exception as "barbarian hordes" etc. This is just ignorant bigotry in the eyes of many. And the implied assertion that sexual assaults upon women are a normal part of drunken behaviour also caused great offence, exacerbated considerably when a mod agreed with post containing it. I struggle to understand how you fail to see all this as a possible problem.

Anyway, having a separate politics/ discussion board, with such subjects excluded from the rest of the forum, is a great idea. It would allow such controversial opinions to be voiced - protecting your freedom of speech - without them in any way totally derailing other threads with massive bust ups. There can be a warning attached to such a subforum, which explicitly states that those who may find certain opinions highly offensive are best advised not to enter.

[steve25805 126,149]

Steve,

I lost 383 brothers and sisters to followers of the so called religion of peace. I have no respect for anyone who follows that religion. Evil must be defeated

This itself demonstrates why we need a separate politics subforum. Because feelings can run very high.

Yes evil must be defeated, including the evil supported by substantial numbers of muslims, and carried out by some. For one thing - and I don't usually express political opinions here but it serves a purpose now - I believe in us going in there and destroying that brutal IS regime, as well as taking a much more robust stance against Saudi Arabia, the wellspring of Wahhabist Islamic extremism which is motivating all these nutjobs.

But to say that ALL muslims are evil just because they are muslims is just stretching logic too far into the territory of overt bigotry. It is akin to someone saying something like, "I hate all blacks cos a black man killed my daddy."

Here in the UK many of us include one or two muslims amongst our friends and work colleagues.

[lordofcoatham1 179]

this is why we need a religion and politics and general rant thread, could this be set up under a blank heading, ie it is just a headder that is blank with the title of the thread, no info on any discussions within, you have o click the link to find out what is there and in big bold letters you enter with the understanding by all that some views within will be offensive to some and you "enter at your own risk" if anyone finds a subject distastful to them, instead of hijacking the particular thread they can start one there "why i find activity x distastful" as long as it isnt a personal attack "why i find member x distastful" I dont see a problem, this way threads wouldnt be taken over, posters can then choose to see any critisism of their activity. I would hope this would make the boards more accesable, peeing is a wide subject and people will inevitably find certain things distastful, but for the original poster this is the only place they might be able to air such views in a supposed understanding forum. I think a rant section would be useful and probably popular, sort out any grievences and keep them there.

[steve25805 126,149]

As I see it. In being on here since this website was started in the first place . I have seen many discussions , debates & also many arguments . As well as hurt feelings . That of temps flaring too . Over what was debated on here . That I would like to see a separate site for these debates , discussions & arguments . On a total different site . Than this site as is . As this is a website devoted to peeing & not politics / world demonianation by a religion of Hate . Towards peace loving people of all races & colors.

So please, consider this point carefully . in deciding what to do about it all.

I know all might not agree with my P.O.V. on here . Though I had felt that I had to express what my thoughts were about what's going on , on this website as a whole ..

As I want this site to grow and be popular , friendly as well as open.

That I don't want to see this site go down the drain and decline into nothing . because we all can't agree to respect one another in how we all see things on here .

We are a small community as is. That if we can't come to terms . In how we should handle ourselves . As well as our views / opinions . We as a community we fall apart completely .

\So we all must agree on a mens to have discussions / debates but , put those on a seperate site altogether and leave this site for peeing only .

I agree that political discussions and arguments cropping up everywhere do a site like this no favours. Because people who feel that they - or their friends or loved ones - are members of criticised groups will always take offence and expect either redress or they'll leave. That is natural. Mods in particular have a duty to place the good of the forum above their desire to express controversial opinions. Because the very fact that they are mods cannot help but to lend the authority of the site itself to their expressed views. And members do not feel like they want to participate where either they do not feel welcome, or where there are off-topic discussions which they don't come here for that seriously piss them off. This too is natural.

So if we allow political discussion at all it should be in a separate subforum. Derailing threads with our own political opinions just because it is something we feel strongly about harms this forum, and inevitably puts people off. There should at least be a rule against that, in my opinion.

And bottom line is this. Is our right to say anything we like at all, anywhere we like, more important than the success of this forum itself? And even if doing so makes some members feel so uncomfortable that they prefer to go elsewhere? I think not. I have come to realise that just as societies need laws, so forums need rules that we all need to live within. And the freedom of us all to say and do absolutely anything, absolutely anywhere, here needs to have some limits for the good of this forum. It is a question of what those limits should be, rather than whether they should exist at all.

And public bickering and arguing has itself been a factor for one member's decision to leave. That itself is a good reason for having a separate subforum where all this can take place so that those who hate it can simply avoid going there, with the rest of the forum being free of it. Such a subforum might even act as a safety valve to prevent public bickering and arguments from infesting the rest of the forum.

[Scot_Lover 1,878]

I may have been guilty on a couple of points, but now I just leave it. Think about what I'm going to say before I post. If it is going to upset someone? Just let it go. The good thing about 3 people here is that you get 2 other opinions before you do anything dumb.

I have also noticed that a few people "have taken their ball, and gone home", surprised really, that people just up and leave because something was said, or someone disagreed on what they said. This is an adult forum, adult things are said, live with it and your actions.

Steve, sorry you resigned, I thought you did a great job, from what we could see anyway, I don't think the post that caused all this wasn't seen by us. Please don't leave over this, you've been here since we joined, you would be missed not just by us, but by everyone on here.

[steve25805 126,149]

Indeed, moderation is a volunteer position and mods are as entitled to their opinions as anyone else. I just think than when we are mods - even unpaid volunteer ones - it comes with some measure of responsibility for what is best for the forum we moderate.

Now Admin has created a separate subforum where political discussions, arguments, rants, tirades and pontifications - from anyone about anything - can be discussed without it derailing other threads. Because, let's face it, Fannywatcher's initial intervention - whatever the rights and wrongs - was a de facto thread derailment because a major political argument was never the intention behind the OP. Now we can all say whatever we want about anything in the new subforum - even quoting statements made in the main forums if relevant - secure in the knowledge that any arguments or debates that ensue will not contaminate or ruin the rest of the forum for everybody else.

And Admin appears to have drawn up a set of rules that I think make sense, which I could definitely work with if I were still a mod. If I'd known these were in the pipeline I would never have resigned my position. Admin has offered to reinstate me as a mod if I wish, but before definitively agreeing to that, I'd like to see feedback from others concerning the rules and the new subforum, particularly from the mods.

And Egwalrus, we have had our heated discussions but there is nothing personal in this from me, nor I believe from you. I respect your total commitment to the notion of total freedom of speech, and I can actually understand why you feel the way you do about the issues under discussion. We often disagree on political matters and always have, but I feel that we always had a mutual respect for each other, and hope we both still do.Neither of us are in any way bad people. I certainly have the best interests of our little community at heart, and would presume you do too. I think Jane Doe is gone for good, but have hopes that Sophie can be won back. She is certainly very much the star attraction in the chatroom.

I hope that a separate subforum for political and other potentially controversial subjects can give us all free rein to say what the hell we like there without doing damage to the forum as a whole or making members feel uncomfortable. Anyone likely to be offended by anything in there need not enter, after all.

[steve25805 126,149]

I may have been guilty on a couple of points, but now I just leave it. Think about what I'm going to say before I post. If it is going to upset someone? Just let it go. The good thing about 3 people here is that you get 2 other opinions before you do anything dumb.

I have also noticed that a few people "have taken their ball, and gone home", surprised really, that people just up and leave because something was said, or someone disagreed on what they said. This is an adult forum, adult things are said, live with it and your actions.

Steve, sorry you resigned, I thought you did a great job, from what we could see anyway, I don't think the post that caused all this wasn't seen by us. Please don't leave over this, you've been here since we joined, you would be missed not just by us, but by everyone on here.

Thank you, Scot_Lover. Your words are most heartwarming, and I thank you for them. No intention of leaving, any thoughts that strayed that way have long been put to bed. Resigning my mod position was mostly due to a situation where I felt my position was untenable because I was one of two mods in total disagreement with each other, yet lacking any common reference points in terms of rules.

Now we have rules - and Admin has offered, without me asking, to reinstate me as a mod - I think we do now have common points of reference, and I am minded to become a mod again. BUT, I feel that everyone with a view needs to have a full and frank discussion first about the new rules and new subforum, and draw attention to whatever they may disagree with and say why, before I consider resuming my position.

Because the rules really need to be something that not only I, but also the two existing mods, and the membership as a whole, can accept and feel they can work with and live with.

[steve25805 126,149]

Having slept on it, I would like to make the following points about the new rules. I agree with them fully, with the proviso that it should be understood that the politics subforum is a total free speech zone.

But I also think an additional rule against the advocacy of sexual assaults, violence, and harm being done to women or others ought to be against the rules too. After all, we can never rule out the possibility that at some point someone will rock up here with a snuff fantasy or some shit like that, and already in the past we have had to ban someone for frequently advocating sexual assaults upon women. Should there be a rule to deal with this?

And where does this forum stand on bestiality? What if someone were to post a pic of some guy fucking a sheep, or some girl going down on a dog, in the other adult content subforum? At the moment there is no rule specifically against that. Should there be?

[Sophie 24,412]

And where does this forum stand on bestiality? What if someone were to post a pic of some guy fucking a sheep, or some girl going down on a dog, in the other adult content subforum? At the moment there is no rule specifically against that. Should there be?

I think it should be banned considering it's illegal in some places.

[steve25805 126,149]

I think it should be banned considering it's illegal in some places.

So is pee porn. But I agree with you. Inclusion of such material would bring unwelcome attention from the authorities for very little gain for the forum. After all, very few pee fetishists also have an interest in that. We have much more to lose than to gain as a forum by allowing it. I am simply suggesting that this be made explicit in the rules.

[Scot_Lover 1,878]

Technically, everything on here (and what we do at home) is illegal but the authorities in power tend to turn a blind eye. What you do in the privacy of your own home is usually left to slide. Any other dubious activities as mentioned would get a more negative approach with possible ramifications for the site owner.

As the rules stand, I agree on them all, Admin has done a good job with them without needing a sitewide poll, and i'm with you on the bestiality addition.

Just a question on the Political / Free Speech thread, would it still be moderated? Would someone be in control to put out bushfires from the flame wars?

[steve25805 126,149]

Technically, everything on here (and what we do at home) is illegal but the authorities in power tend to turn a blind eye. What you do in the privacy of your own home is usually left to slide. Any other dubious activities as mentioned would get a more negative approach with possible ramifications for the site owner.

As the rules stand, I agree on them all, Admin has done a good job with them without needing a sitewide poll, and i'm with you on the bestiality addition.

Just a question on the Political / Free Speech thread, would it still be moderated? Would someone be in control to put out bushfires from the flame wars?

On the political subforum, on most forums with such a subforum many of the usual rules elsewhere do not apply, with people being free to express opinions even if they seem racist, sexist, homophobic, or whatever. Such forums tend to be no holds barred type places where the easily offended are best advised to steer clear. Such subforums act as safety valves to allow members to let off steam, allowing the rest of the forum to largely be free of overly controversial opinions.

But some rules do tend to still be necessary, eg against spamming, or threatening behaviour, for example. I would presume that moderation there should be kept to an absolute minimum, but that if it is necessary, the mods and Admin will handle it. Were I to resume my position as a moderator - as I hope to do at some future point - I would not seek to impose the entire set of forum rules there. Admin himself has given only two rules for the subforum - no spam and nothing illegal. Presumably therefore, if things get so heated that insults start being thrown around, that too is par for the course there, though any debate that descended to that would quickly become most tiresome. I believe that if the personal bullshit started getting out of hand, as the rules stand the mods lack the authority to interfere unless it becomes overtly threatening or slanderous, which could be deemed illegal. So mods would have to kick it up to Admin otherwise for him to decide upon. But that would be a very last resort.

Anyone entering that part of the forum should do so on the understanding that someone who is angry with their point of view might conceivably call them a bad name. We are grown ups, though. Sticks and stones and all that. Generally, the person who reverts to name calling and insults does so because they have demonstrably lost the argument anyway.

That's my take on it, in any case.

[steve25805 126,149]

Sex with animals should be banned be it pictures, videos or stories. Pictures of animals mating or urinating are not what I would consider bestiality, and I see no reason to ban such things.

I agree.

But yes, when pics of urinating animals were posted a while back, I did wobble a bit, I must admit. That is because, as someone who gains sexual pleasure from the sight of girls peeing, and who has also studied abnormal psychology, I was well aware that someone who combined a fetish similar to mine with another fetish for bestiality, might well find peeing animals erotic. And that there could well be a bestiality fetish/pee fetish crossover driving some people to be turned on by this.

But I then realised that this is in the eye of the beholder, and that imagery showing animals doing wholly natural things is of itself in no way bestiality porn. You yourself helped me to recognise that, even if belatedly.

[Admin 14,791]

Technically, everything on here (and what we do at home) is illegal but the authorities in power tend to turn a blind eye. What you do in the privacy of your own home is usually left to slide. Any other dubious activities as mentioned would get a more negative approach with possible ramifications for the site owner.

As the rules stand, I agree on them all, Admin has done a good job with them without needing a sitewide poll, and i'm with you on the bestiality addition.

Just a question on the Political / Free Speech thread, would it still be moderated? Would someone be in control to put out bushfires from the flame wars?

I strongly disagree with that assertion. There is nothing illegal about this site, or the type of content that is posted here.

[Admin 14,791]

So is pee porn. But I agree with you. Inclusion of such material would bring unwelcome attention from the authorities for very little gain for the forum. After all, very few pee fetishists also have an interest in that. We have much more to lose than to gain as a forum by allowing it. I am simply suggesting that this be made explicit in the rules.

I wasn't aware that bestiality was an issue here. I have added a rule against it.

[steve25805 126,149]

I wasn't aware that bestiality was an issue here. I have added a rule against it.

It hasn't been an issue. We were just using foresight. Sooner or later someone - perhaps just a mischief making troll - would have posted some. Better to have rules in place in advance.

[steve25805 126,149]

I strongly disagree with that assertion. There is nothing illegal about this site, or the type of content that is posted here.

I suppose it depends upon the jurisdiction. There have been moves in the UK by the government to attempt to bring a number of sexual practices - including golden showers - under the remit of censorship. The law remains to be fully tested, though, but several UK based pee porn sites have either been closed down or forced offshore. But our laws thankfully have no jurisdiction over sites hosted outside the country. And the police have better things to do with their time than worry about individual members of the public accessing such forums anyway, as long as everything here is consenting adults only. Peesearch, I believe, is still hosted from within the UK but no one has closed it down. The authorities have bigger concerns to worry about.

In the USA I believe forums such as this are wholly protected by the constitutional amendment guaranteeing freedom of expression.

But Scot_Lover resides in Australia. I have no idea what the legal situation is there.

Some countries are more censorious than others. In Saudi Arabia you'd probably get several hundred lashes if caught accessing this forum, lol.

But I fully accept that in whatever jurisdiction Admin is operating from, all content here is entirely legal.