Why is vagina treated as a handicap?

[Takashi96 846]

Promptly after learning that girls lack a penis for peeing, I wondered how they managed to pee without a toilet? Every girl I asked told me she was incapable of peeing without a toilet. This led me to believe that females had no choice but to have an accident in the absence of a toilet. Even today I can't count how many times I've heard a woman say "girls can't pee outside." I know it's not as easy for women to urinate outside of a toilet, but why is having to pee with a vagina treated like a handicap? Like the toilet is some kind of wheelchair that they are condemned sit on. I hope my wording did not offend anyone. That wasn't my intention.

[gldenwetgoose 20,205]

I can understand why you may have at one time in your youth thought like that ?    Perhaps when the people you were talking to were friends in the playground who simply hadn't been taught the alternatives?

And of course if that is the case, we can't criticise your previous understanding .  It was your experience and therefore it is a valid thing that we respect.

I'm assuming that today of course you enjoy the knowledge that owning a vagina is absolutely no handicap - I'm being very superficial of course in using that term 'owning a vagina', since it's not just about that one body part, it's about the whole person and everything about their personality.   We see here, and many of us in real life, that a toilet isn't always needed - ladies and those without a penis who can still pee freely and in many exciting places.

I'm not disputing that today you hear 'girls can't pee outside' and I know the common 'it's ok for you guys, you can just whip it out'.   But if we were to run a public advertising campaign, if we were to stand on the street with our loudspeaker then the message every one of us would want to send is "Yes you can!"

And people of Peefans, as you read this headline and original post above - please don't consider it as a member criticising or being sexist, don't think of a man who is saying a penis makes a better, stronger, more capable person.  In English we have the expression "tongue in cheek" or "to play Devil's advocate" meaning to make a statement which we know is untrue, for the reason of creating a discussion.

 Do what we always do - and celebrate the wonder of pee, that all people can enjoy and many, many more can gain enjoyment from it.

 

(For the second time this week I see the words 'I hope my wording did not offend' - if you consider an apology is needed, then perhaps it is better to avoid that risk totally by not posting?   Just a thought for the future)

[Bacardi 9,018]

I have never considered or have ever had my vagina be treated as a handicap and have been peeing in places other than a toilet since I was a child.

[CON2H4 571]

Actually, this is reminding me of a walk I did recently where I had to pee twice, my male companions peed once each, but the woman with us never peed, and I asked her if she was sure she was OK, but she insisted it would be easier to wait. I was a bit concerned though because that represents some 4-5 hours without peeing.

[Dr.P 1,454]

CON2H4, I have also seen this behavior, in mixed groups, in outdoor situations, and I am also concerned for the health of the women involved. Some of them seem to have capabilities for holding their urine for extraordinarily long times. Although they have this ability, I don't think it is good for the health of their urinary systems. It can lead to bladder and kidney infections, and even more serious medical conditions. I think this is another consequence of the social conditioning of women, relative to urination, being embarrassed by their needs, and taking pride in their ability to control them, at least in one way.

I was once on a river rafting trip, with both women and men, in very warm weather, which provided some evidence for a very different means of control. After navigating some rapids, we all stopped and rested in some calm water. All of us, male and female, got off of the rafts, for a cooling dip. We all commented on how great the cool water felt. To my surprise, several of the women also commented spontaneously on the opportunity the dip presented for "a nice pee" in the calm water! I had been carrying on conversations with some of these women, while they were apparently peeing, under the murky water, and I had no idea what they were doing! I was surprised by their bravery in peeing, while conversing with a male, and even more by their open revelations of what they had done, knowing it was probably contrary to their social conditioning. It was a turn on for me to realize how close I had been to these women, while they were  actually peeing, and I admired them very much for overcoming their social conditioning, in the acts themselves, and in their spontaneous revelations.  

[Keri 124]

What is beautiful about this forum is that we come from all walks of life and we can exchange our thoughts on pissing habits. In my environment, women are more ashamed of pissing in public, but they talk about pissing, also in front of men. I remember when on school trips the coach stopped in the woods and the boys were going to pee on one side of the road, and the girls on the other. We all pissed outdoors. No one in our place teaches anyone that you only pee in the toilet. Sometimes with a vagina it's easier to find a place to pee because you can hide behind a bush or behind a car. Plus, if I'm caught pissing, I can pretend to tie my shoelace or look for something in the grass. When a man peeing, he is clearly visible and no one doubts what he is doing.

[Linda 83]

That's why I wear dresses all the time. Just let it flow where you want. And I have done that.

[PissDude 469]

Not sure where the misconception came from. The toilet is a relatively recent invention. Do you think women simply didn’t piss for thousands or millions of years until the toilet was invented?

[Takashi96 846]

2 hours ago, Keri said:

What is beautiful about this forum is that we come from all walks of life and we can exchange our thoughts on pissing habits. In my environment, women are more ashamed of pissing in public, but they talk about pissing, also in front of men. I remember when on school trips the coach stopped in the woods and the boys were going to pee on one side of the road, and the girls on the other. We all pissed outdoors. No one in our place teaches anyone that you only pee in the toilet. Sometimes with a vagina it's easier to find a place to pee because you can hide behind a bush or behind a car. Plus, if I'm caught pissing, I can pretend to tie my shoelace or look for something in the grass. When a man peeing, he is clearly visible and no one doubts what he is doing.

You bring up a point which I've mentioned to various female friends over the years. Sometimes with a vagina it is easier to pee secretly. And I agree, when males pee it's usually quite obvious what we're doing. I have two friends who never wear panties with skirts or dresses. Both have informed me that they enjoy this combination because it allows them to secretly "pee anywhere." And both are capable of peeing standing up.

[Takashi96 846]

24 minutes ago, PissDude said:

Not sure where the misconception came from. The toilet is a relatively recent invention. Do you think women simply didn’t piss for thousands or millions of years until the toilet was invented?

I'm not sure either. My question is about why it's still so widely accepted? Even more frustratingly by so many biological women? It's not healthy for them to believe they can't pee outside of a toilet without getting half naked or soiling themselves. These are the consequences that have been described to me over the years by many women, after I suggested they pee outside. 

[Alfresco 10,989]

It is very much social conditioning.   Women who have grown up with families on farms or families who do outdoor activities  for example, absolutely don’t see peeing outdoors to be a problem.  However, women who have not spent much time in a rural environment may well think that they can’t pee outside either because of fear of exposure, fear of what others will think or simply that they haven’t attempted it and don’t know how it will go.  I think it is in these circumstances that @Takashi96 is meaning that girls feel disadvantaged and restricted (hence disabled).

Things are changing somewhat in that so many more girls seem to be comfortable peeing outside on nights out as they see other girls doing so and realise that nobody is going to complain about it.  Also, the many toilet closures during Covid have enforced outdoor peeing and ladies have realised that peeing outside is feasible and more common than they knew. 

However, for many women, peeing outside remains embarrassing and risky and they do feel a perception of being disadvantaged (disabled) compared to men.

[Takashi96 846]

3 hours ago, Dr.P said:

CON2H4, I have also seen this behavior, in mixed groups, in outdoor situations, and I am also concerned for the health of the women involved. Some of them seem to have capabilities for holding their urine for extraordinarily long times. Although they have this ability, I don't think it is good for the health of their urinary systems. It can lead to bladder and kidney infections, and even more serious medical conditions. I think this is another consequence of the social conditioning of women, relative to urination, being embarrassed by their needs, and taking pride in their ability to control them, at least in one way.

I was once on a river rafting trip, with both women and men, in very warm weather, which provided some evidence for a very different means of control. After navigating some rapids, we all stopped and rested in some calm water. All of us, male and female, got off of the rafts, for a cooling dip. We all commented on how great the cool water felt. To my surprise, several of the women also commented spontaneously on the opportunity the dip presented for "a nice pee" in the calm water! I had been carrying on conversations with some of these women, while they were apparently peeing, under the murky water, and I had no idea what they were doing! I was surprised by their bravery in peeing, while conversing with a male, and even more by their open revelations of what they had done, knowing it was probably contrary to their social conditioning. It was a turn on for me to realize how close I had been to these women, while they were  actually peeing, and I admired them very much for overcoming their social conditioning, in the acts themselves, and in their spontaneous revelations.  

That first half of your response is exactly my sentiments! 

[Takashi96 846]

2 minutes ago, Alfresco said:

It is very much social conditioning.   Women who have grown up with families on farms or families who do outdoor activities  for example, absolutely don’t see peeing outdoors to be a problem.  However, women who have not spent much time in a rural environment may well think that they can’t pee outside either because of fear of exposure, fear of what others will think or simply that they haven’t attempted it and don’t know how it will go.  I think it is in these circumstances that @Takashi96 is meaning that girls feel disadvantaged and restricted (hence disabled).

Things are changing somewhat in that so many more girls seem to be comfortable peeing outside on nights out as they see other girls doing so and realise that nobody is going to complain about it.  Also, the many toilet closures during Covid have enforced outdoor peeing and ladies have realised that peeing outside is feasible and more common than they knew. 

However, for many women, peeing outside remains embarrassing and risky and they do feel a perception of being disadvantaged (disabled) compared to men.

Thank you for explaining it better than I did!

I have also noticed things are changing. At least in the US. My impression is that women in other western countries pee outside with ease compared to those in the states. And those under 30 pee more readily than the last few generations. 

I heard a podcast during the lockdown saying that COVID brought the return of "the urinary leash." Which was a condition women faced in the early 20th century. They avoided leaving their homes for long periods of time because most public toilets were built only to accommodate men.

[Ms. Tito 2,028]

Society's BS idea that women shouldn't pee unless it's in a toilet, that's why. Well and the obvious problem of not being able to aim as easily. 

[Takashi96 846]

21 hours ago, gldenwetgoose said:

I can understand why you may have at one time in your youth thought like that ?    Perhaps when the people you were talking to were friends in the playground who simply hadn't been taught the alternatives?

And of course if that is the case, we can't criticise your previous understanding .  It was your experience and therefore it is a valid thing that we respect.

I'm assuming that today of course you enjoy the knowledge that owning a vagina is absolutely no handicap - I'm being very superficial of course in using that term 'owning a vagina', since it's not just about that one body part, it's about the whole person and everything about their personality.   We see here, and many of us in real life, that a toilet isn't always needed - ladies and those without a penis who can still pee freely and in many exciting places.

I'm not disputing that today you hear 'girls can't pee outside' and I know the common 'it's ok for you guys, you can just whip it out'.   But if we were to run a public advertising campaign, if we were to stand on the street with our loudspeaker then the message every one of us would want to send is "Yes you can!"

And people of Peefans, as you read this headline and original post above - please don't consider it as a member criticising or being sexist, don't think of a man who is saying a penis makes a better, stronger, more capable person.  In English we have the expression "tongue in cheek" or "to play Devil's advocate" meaning to make a statement which we know is untrue, for the reason of creating a discussion.

 Do what we always do - and celebrate the wonder of pee, that all people can enjoy and many, many more can gain enjoyment from it.

 

(For the second time this week I see the words 'I hope my wording did not offend' - if you consider an apology is needed, then perhaps it is better to avoid that risk totally by not posting?   Just a thought for the future)

My post was not as clear as I wanted it to be. My frustration is with the ignorant myth that vaginas are incompatible with outside urination. Even in 2022, I've heard women say "girls can't pee outside." I consider this a harmful and oppressive belief (and not because I get off when women pee outside of the restroom). What's worse is that I hear it more from women than from men. 

 

(I often apologize in advance when explaining something or asking a question. This is because, I have learning disabilities which sometimes make my only language come out like a second language. One of the side effects is phrasing things in a way that communicates the opposite of what I mean. And I don't realize I've done it until I the other person is upset with me. ) 

 

[Takashi96 846]

34 minutes ago, Ms. Tito said:

Society's BS idea that women shouldn't pee unless it's in a toilet, that's why. Well and the obvious problem of not being able to aim as easily. 

"The obvious problem" is the reason, more often than not, that they accept the idea.  

[Takashi96 846]

19 hours ago, Bacardi said:

I have never considered or have ever had my vagina be treated as a handicap and have been peeing in places other than a toilet since I was a child.

And you've inspired me every time I've time I've visited this site.

[DoctorDoctor 1,063]

14 hours ago, PissDude said:

Not sure where the misconception came from. The toilet is a relatively recent invention. Do you think women simply didn’t piss for thousands or millions of years until the toilet was invented?

I agree the toilet is a (relatively) new invention.  The undressing and maintaining modesty in view of those of the opposite sex of was likely more problematic before that, not the actual peeing.  Even today with people who are comfortable peeing outdoors near each other, but usually segregate by sex.

Edited July 31, 2022 by DoctorDoctor

[jmatthews1995 3,463]

On another slightly different note (I'm into wetting). I can't imagine how much less of a hindrance it would be to enjoy wetting if I was just wearing a skirt and thin panties! It's difficult as a male to enjoy wetting in anywhere public as the entire front of your trousers often gets soaked so only very specific clothes can be worn to get away with it and hide it.

Popping a squat in leggings, panties, tights, fishnets under a skirt and just letting the flood go as you pretend to adjust your shoes, or sitting on the edge of a bench and creating a little waterfall would be incredible I would imagine!

[Takashi96 846]

I just remembered an interview I heard maybe 2 years ago, between Phoebe Bridgers and another female musician ( I hadn't heard of). And they were talking about recording in some remote studio in the middle of nowhere. And I guess the place has an outhouse that's really far from the recording booth. And they were sharing stories about having to pee, but the toilet was too far away. And both admitted that they just peed their pants, because what else can you do? That seemed absolutely crazy to me! Had neither been exposed to the art of popping a squat?  One of my female friends once commented that she can't understand how some women won't pee outside. "It's the same as peeing in the toilet, but there's no toilet beneath you."

[CON2H4 571]

On 7/31/2022 at 12:32 AM, Dr.P said:

CON2H4, I have also seen this behavior, in mixed groups, in outdoor situations, and I am also concerned for the health of the women involved. Some of them seem to have capabilities for holding their urine for extraordinarily long times. Although they have this ability, I don't think it is good for the health of their urinary systems. It can lead to bladder and kidney infections, and even more serious medical conditions. I think this is another consequence of the social conditioning of women, relative to urination, being embarrassed by their needs, and taking pride in their ability to control them, at least in one way.

I was once on a river rafting trip, with both women and men, in very warm weather, which provided some evidence for a very different means of control. After navigating some rapids, we all stopped and rested in some calm water. All of us, male and female, got off of the rafts, for a cooling dip. We all commented on how great the cool water felt. To my surprise, several of the women also commented spontaneously on the opportunity the dip presented for "a nice pee" in the calm water! I had been carrying on conversations with some of these women, while they were apparently peeing, under the murky water, and I had no idea what they were doing! I was surprised by their bravery in peeing, while conversing with a male, and even more by their open revelations of what they had done, knowing it was probably contrary to their social conditioning. It was a turn on for me to realize how close I had been to these women, while they were  actually peeing, and I admired them very much for overcoming their social conditioning, in the acts themselves, and in their spontaneous revelations.  

Thing is, she made it seem like a practical concern. But I think she was scared of getting caught.
Thing is, I often struggle to pee standing myself, so while she was afraid of exposing herself, I was taking that chance quite happily knowing I'd found somewhere secluded enough.

[Alfresco 10,989]

On 7/31/2022 at 5:22 AM, Takashi96 said:

Even in 2022, I've heard women say "girls can't pee outside."

This is very true - many women just wouldn't consider peeing outside because they are not accustomed to it, are worried about being caught and don't want to expose themselves.  These ladies believe that waiting for a toilet is their only option.  Also, some men who aren't well tuned in to what goes on don't help because they carry the same views and also if they did spot a lady peeing, then they would call them out over it.   

On the other hand, I've also noted that women who do pee outside are now far more relaxed about it and there are more of them.   I mentioned on a different thread that I passed three young ladies walking in a park and one of them clearly audibly said to the others that she needed a wee and was going to go before they got settled.   She said that without hesitation to her friends and she said it when she was right next to me passing by.   A few years ago, even if the three of them were used to peeing outside with each other, most women wouldn't announce the fact whilst walking right past a man walking in the other direction.  She could easily have waited 20 seconds to make the statement, but she said it as openly as if she was saying that she needed a drink of water or that she was a bit hot.   It just didn't occur to her to put up her privacy filter and she obviously considered it to be normal, acceptable behaviour.  As per my other post on this, she headed for the bushes and squatted to pee whilst the others stood guard, but I saw her puddle afterwards.

The other one which is very interesting is how different people have different attitudes in respect of hiding what they are doing, or just going ahead.    I've seen plenty people who will just make a beeline for the bushes or a quiet spot and return a minute later, possibly still adjusting their clothing as they come out.  It is very obvious what they went to do, even it not possible to see the action.  On the other hand, some people will go to elaborate lengths to take a walk and only go into the bushes in space where nobody can see them leaving the path.   

On a night out when drunk, some girls make every effort to find a very discrete spot hidden behind bins or down a dark alley with friends covering them, whilst others pop a squat in full view.   I've seen girls come out of a busy kebab shop and squat on the pavement right next to the door whilst people walk past.  I've seen girls announce to others in the nightclub queue quite loudly that they are just going round the corner for a piss.   On the other hand I've seen people whisper quietly to their mates of their intention or even make up a different excuse and then walk for five minutes or more to find a decent hiding place.   

[Takashi96 846]

10 minutes ago, Alfresco said:

This is very true - many women just wouldn't consider peeing outside because they are not accustomed to it, are worried about being caught and don't want to expose themselves.  These ladies believe that waiting for a toilet is their only option.  Also, some men who aren't well tuned in to what goes on don't help because they carry the same views and also if they did spot a lady peeing, then they would call them out over it.   

On the other hand, I've also noted that women who do pee outside are now far more relaxed about it and there are more of them.   I mentioned on a different thread that I passed three young ladies walking in a park and one of them clearly audibly said to the others that she needed a wee and was going to go before they got settled.   She said that without hesitation to her friends and she said it when she was right next to me passing by.   A few years ago, even if the three of them were used to peeing outside with each other, most women wouldn't announce the fact whilst walking right past a man walking in the other direction.  She could easily have waited 20 seconds to make the statement, but she said it as openly as if she was saying that she needed a drink of water or that she was a bit hot.   It just didn't occur to her to put up her privacy filter and she obviously considered it to be normal, acceptable behaviour.  As per my other post on this, she headed for the bushes and squatted to pee whilst the others stood guard, but I saw her puddle afterwards.

The other one which is very interesting is how different people have different attitudes in respect of hiding what they are doing, or just going ahead.    I've seen plenty people who will just make a beeline for the bushes or a quiet spot and return a minute later, possibly still adjusting their clothing as they come out.  It is very obvious what they went to do, even it not possible to see the action.  On the other hand, some people will go to elaborate lengths to take a walk and only go into the bushes in space where nobody can see them leaving the path.   

On a night out when drunk, some girls make every effort to find a very discrete spot hidden behind bins or down a dark alley with friends covering them, whilst others pop a squat in full view.   I've seen girls come out of a busy kebab shop and squat on the pavement right next to the door whilst people walk past.  I've seen girls announce to others in the nightclub queue quite loudly that they are just going round the corner for a piss.   On the other hand I've seen people whisper quietly to their mates of their intention or even make up a different excuse and then walk for five minutes or more to find a decent hiding place.   

You are absolutely right. The last decade has been notable for the ease with which, at least American girls pee far more brazenly than I've ever seen before. It sounds like it's become universal. And that's not even getting into that protest peeing that started happening a few years ago. Where these gorgeous young women were peeing on symbols of capitalism and oppression to show their disgust with the system. Like Femen, except these were just normie college girls. That's behavior that never existed outside my fantasies before.