Death sentence for animal abuse

[likesToLick 9,768]

2 hours ago, steve25805 said:

You can throw all the most emotive examples at me you can imagine. I still believe the death penalty is wrong. And I still believe your example only constitutes manslaughter, even though a severe case of it meriting a long prison sentence. I am certain that legal minds would define it as manslaughter rather than murder too. 

This discussion is one of the classic conflicts that often comes up about crime and justice.

There are basically two ways of thinking.  One group regards sentencing as a form of revenge for a crime that was committed.  The other group thinks that the sentence should be focused on preventing more crime from happening in future.

So,  in the case of the drunk driver above,  the "revenge" group would likely call for the death penalty, and focus on that being revenge for the family of the dead child.   The "crime prevention" group might look at things like disqualifying the offender from driving and confiscating his car.

The "revenge" people believe that prison should be as horrible as possible, a form of torture,  and that people should be held in those horrible conditions for a long time, in order to "punish" them.  The "crime prevention" people think that prison should teach criminals to become good citizens, show them how to earn money in a useful job and so on. 

Some criminals are clearly a danger to the public and will cause more harm if they are allowed to be free.  The crime prevention types understand that those people need to be locked away for a long time,  but still see no merit in torturing them,  denying medical care and so on.

Personally,  my main reason for opposing the death penalty is the fact that our legal system frequently convicts innocent people of crimes,  and it would be appalling if someone was murdered by the state because of this.  Juries often seem to convict people without any regard to the facts of the case, just because they don't like the way someone looks.  I'd hate to have my life depending on something like that.

[steve25805 121,221]

2 minutes ago, likesToLick said:

 

Personally,  my main reason for opposing the death penalty is the fact that our legal system frequently convicts innocent people of crimes,  and it would be appalling if someone was murdered by the state because of this.

That is indeed my main reason for opposing the death penalty.

I sometimes put forward the idea that all those in favour of a death penalty should be collectively personally liable for wrongful executions when they occur, and any resulting compensation. Curiously, they are hardly ever willing to put their money where their mouths are. Funny that. But it is a realisation that fills me with contempt for the death penalty lobby.

[Brutus 2,110]

1 hour ago, steve25805 said:

That is indeed my main reason for opposing the death penalty.

I sometimes put forward the idea that all those in favour of a death penalty should be collectively personally liable for wrongful executions when they occur, and any resulting compensation. Curiously, they are hardly ever willing to put their money where their mouths are. Funny that. But it is a realisation that fills me with contempt for the death penalty lobby.

Well said, it's a whole different mindset when you have skin in the game. Jurors are biased just like anyone else and this often leads to wrongful convictions, and unfortunately wrongful executions. I would not want my life in the hands of people that maybe dislike me and are more concerned about being home in time for dinner than whether they kill me in error.

As for animal abuse, I'd like to consider the hunting vs buying comparison further. One could argue that buying in the store is worse because you're supporting the profit of mass animal slaughter. Good reasons to hunt in modern day, in my opinion include not adding to the incentive to profit from the sale of animal meat, and avoiding any chemical preservative that may be added before it lands on store shelves. Animals are often kept in horrific conditions leading up to slaughter, so at least as an honorable hunter, you can make a quick kill to the head and it doesn't suffer. Ancient man hunted so it's the natural order to do so. I'm not against buying in store, I just imagine some hunters might see it this way.

Now with that said, the hunters that do it for sport I do not support. The big game hunters that pose proudly over the body for photos, like "look at me, I'm so badass by shooting something from a 100 yards away that can't fight back and now I'm off to another continent to get another big animal on my list." Some female hunters often pose over the animal in a sexual way as well, like they're conveying that it makes them horny. If you're hunting for food, shoot it in the head, and be done with it. You did what you had to, but it shouldn't give you overwhelming joy to kill. If you're doing it to have a fancy coat made or posing all over it for a bunch of photos to share on social media, getting a rush, I'd say that's sport killing because you're enjoying taking a life.

Edited June 27, 2019 by Brutus

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19 hours ago, Peefreak99 said:

Btw do you think fishing is ok?

You may think I'm weird,  but I could never get into fishing because I was appalled by the cruelty of putting a worm on a fish hook.  I did it a few times but I could see by the way the worms reacted that it was inflicting terrible pain on them.

I still eat fish, and I guess I could fish with live bait if the alternative was starvation,  but I could never do it for fun.

[Peefreak99 3,703]

6 hours ago, likesToLick said:

You may think I'm weird,  but I could never get into fishing because I was appalled by the cruelty of putting a worm on a fish hook.  I did it a few times but I could see by the way the worms reacted that it was inflicting terrible pain on them.

I still eat fish, and I guess I could fish with live bait if the alternative was starvation,  but I could never do it for fun.

Not weird at all it just shows that you have alot of empathy 

Edited June 27, 2019 by Peefreak99

[Scot_Lover 1,783]

Argh, I love a steak, and a full roast pork, but I couldn't kill anything to get it. If the world went to hell in a hand basket, then I'd have to change my mind. Maigh has tried most things, crocodile, kangaroo and snails, but that's it, just tried them, not rushing out to buy them from the supermarket. She feels the same way, killing animals senselessly, is bad.

I hit a kangaroo with the car once, she was inconsolable, cried for an hour after it died in front of her, it's the way she is.

And as for those so called hunters that proudly stand over a slain giraffe or an old elephant, that's just crazy. A harmless herbivore? Really? 

There is some arsehole shooting kangaroos with a crossbow north of Melbourne, pictures of kangaroos with arrows hanging out of them caused a bit of an uproar, one of the poor buggers died after how many days of pain. Police are looking for them, thinking they should find them first, before the RSPCA does.